Yes, that blurb on p. 109 was an oversight. The Kingfisher book was not recommended in the 2009 ed. of WTM, because the KF book suddenly went OOP right before publication of 2009 WTM. SWB posted frantically here, looking for new recommendations, but I assume she forgot to remove that blurb from p. 109. Then, after the 2009 WTM was published, the KF book went back into print!! There certainly are other options to use for logic-stage history spines, and the KF book is one of them. It was only changed in the 2009 book because of going OOP. No, you were right. :D

I think WWS (and WWE for that matter) trumps the specific recommendations for number of paragraphs, frequency during the week, length, etc. in WTM. WTM is ideal, whereas SWB's later-written writing programs are more realistic for many kids. We've been doing WWS (and now are beta-testing WWS 2), and though I haven't incorporated this yet due to the energy-consumption you mentioned, I plan to have my kids do one extra (in addition to WWS) writing assignment per week, in any one of the content area studies. So, they maybe read a spine, read supplemental books, and then I would create a writing assignment based on what they know how to do so far in WWS. Does that make sense?

Previously in this thread (I'm not searching, lol) SWB posted a link to the Scope and Sequence for all of WWS, if that helps.

R&S grammar lessons will teach you all of that (we use R&S, and skip the writing lessons in favour of WWS). Ds is on R&S 9, and I do remember, somewhere along the way in R&S, learning the concepts you mentioned in your OP. As for helping your kids prettify their writing by fixing their grammar, WWS will also help you do that. Whenever the student has to produce a written piece, there is a rubric that you use to check grammar, mechanics, spelling, and the actual assignment requirements. The rubric will be specific about what types of grammar errors to look for. But, you can take it a step further and diagram (or have him try to do it, or do it together) any weird-sounding sentences - grammar mistakes will not fit onto the diagram, and that's how you find them. Then use (or have your son use, or do it together) your son's current grammar knowledge from R&S to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it. Beyond using diagraming with WWS, you can use diagraming with any of his school-requirement writing! Tell him it's a tool he can use to proofread any other school-writing he does. And that, though you don't require it, he can use it in writing letters, blog posts, forum posts, anything in real life, etc..

And a few more hopefully helpful posts (written more recently than the above linked S&S): http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=4214942&postcount=32 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=4214900&postcount=271 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=4214953&postcount=273 I'm just noticing these were all written within 20 minutes of each other. :D OK, hope something here helps.

See this link (posted over a year ago, so changes may have happened since it was written) for SWB's link to the WWS 1-4 scope and sequence: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showpost.php?p=3186313&postcount=131 (also see posts 132 and 133 in that same thread, for her confirmation that WWS teaches skills for expository essays and not persuasive essays - just like I thought. I think the persuasive essay skills will come in Writing With Style)

WWS 1 will help the student to come up with original content. :D The part about coming up with original content comes at the end, with the final project at the end of the book, after some basic topoi (biographical sketch, personal description, place description, scientific description, chrono. narr. of past events, chrono. narr. of sci. discovery, and a few more) are taught throughout the book. The final project instructions will walk the student how to come up with content. By then, it should be fairly easy to come up with content, because he will have gone through the process of learning how to read, summarize, outline-to-see-how-topoi-are-used/written-in-paragraphs, take notes, put those notes in order depending on the topos used, and put all that together into compositions. Basically, all he has to do is think about what he wants to write about (within some guidelines - biog. sketch within a chrono. narr. of past event? sci. description within a chrono. narr. of sci. discovery? and several other topoi combination possibilities), and then think about how to put it together with the skills he has learned from WWS. I, who have never learned how to think/write this way, think that the way WWS teaches brilliantly freeing. And yes, it introduces writing introductions. And yes, it gives you all you need to be able to evaluate finished pieces. The TM holds your hand all the way through, and the student book tells the student exactly how to think his/her way through each instruction, in a way that will cause the student to apply the skills to future writing. The student has to do things such as, after learning about a particular topos, writing down (on a chart to keep in the reference section of his notebook) the pattern of the topos - in other words, the pattern of how to write another topos on another topic. The student will refer to these charts while coming up with topics to write about in the final project. WWS also teaches about writing conclusions. I'm not sure if WWS will talk about writing thesis statements (so far I haven't seen that), but in a minute I'm going to hunt for the scope and sequence for WWS and link it for you. That will probably be really helpful. (I also suspect that even if WWS doesn't talk about thesis statements, that the future Writing With Style will) But, from everything you wrote in this thread, I think WWS will be a pleasant surprise for both you and your son. Also, in case you are panicking about maybe not getting to thesis statements anytime soon or not digging into persuasive essays anytime soon, I read somewhere on this forum where SWB mentioned that all the foundational stuff for WWS may be covered in just three levels instead of four (although a fourth level will be written for those who are just reaching it in 8th grade), so ideally your 8th grader would maybe still have time to get to all that after doing WWS (depending on when WWS 2 and 3 get published). Hmmm...let me see if I can find some other reassuring links for you. Back in a few minutes...

Melinda and dh, thank you so much! When I get a chance, I will come back and read this more closely - it was very helpful!

:lol::lol: :cheers2: :lol::lol::lol: I think I like b-y-b better, though! This thread is hilarious. The bat story reminded me of a time when dh and I woke up to a bat flying around in our room, too. I freaked out then, and I'd shamelessly freak out now! :D

:hurray: You would have been my hero! No, I confess that this has been one of my irrational fears over the years! :lol::lol: This is one of the funniest threads I've read in a long time!

bumping, as I am paralyzed with indecision and could use some inspiration!

Obtained intelligence?? Is he an FBI agent? I can see being concerned about an issue, but the language boggles my mind!

:lol::lol::lol: You are totally cracking me up in this thread!!! I shuddered when I read the OP - I would have done the same thing as the OP, and then joked about it afterwards just to relieve my tension from having been freaked out!! I love animals, but not enough to calmly and compassionately fish a rodent out of my toilet!!!! OP, you've posted about one of my fears coming true! Ack! :D Oh, disgusting! :lol: :lol::lol: I am literally ROTFL right now!

Reading is incorporated into our school day for two hours after lunch, so if they are reading when I need to start other subjects in the mornings, they have to stop reading til after lunch. But, they also have another hour at bedtime for reading, as well as before breakfast if they wake up, and then free time in the late afternoon if they want to read then, too.

Thank you! Dh has one of these that he uses sometimes with ds. I'm thinking I'm going to get the MAKE book and then branch out into kits and/or supplies once ds has an overview in hand. Hmmm....Christmas present maybe.

I haven't been science-minded over the years, either, and I know there are scientists who post here who will have specific book/program recommendations. However, a few things have helped me to get a general picture in my head about science education. Two of them are a couple of SWB's audio teachings: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/science-in-the-classical-curriculum-mp3.html http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/well-prepared-student.html The first one is obviously a science audio. The second has some information that is helpful with regards to science, too, and helped me to fit science study into the bigger picture of high school and life. The other thing I am finding valuable is SWB's WWS middle grade writing curriculum. I don't know how other writing currics work, but this one contains "how to write about science topics" lessons with different methods for writing about science topics. It has been VERY helpful here. Anyway, having this information in my head makes it easier for me to think about how science study could progress through high school, and makes it easier to consider different programs/books/kits.

That combination would be too much for my 9th grader. My son is doing WWS, too, and I think it's WAAAAYYYYYYYY better than the R&S writing lessons (we use R&S only for grammar). He, too, had a hard time with writing when he was younger, and he still claims that he is not a fan of having to write. But, he does like WWS better than when we tried to do R&S writing lessons and when I was trying to implement the WTM methods myself. I see WWS as a foundational, thorough program, and the student can take what he learns from it and *use* the skills for history/literature/science assignments that you make up. I haven't actually done this yet (other things crowding time right now), but I plan to implement this as we go deeper into beta-testing WWS 2. Ideally, we'll do WWS four days a week, and then I'll give a fifth day assignment, using WWS skills, based on his history/literature/science reading. I adore WWS and the freedom it offers to apply skills to content subjects. :D For us, using other writing curriculums or writing assignments from other history/science/literature curriculums would clutter our brains unnecessarily. With WWS, I feel like I can see the bigger picture of what writing skills are necessary and what they are for, and how they can be applied anywhere. I don't want to clutter that up.

Thanks everyone for your feedback! Looks like the MAKE book is pretty popular. Ds does take things apart to figure out how they work (including his laptop that someone gave him, that he does some of his schoolwork on!!). Dh studied electronics a long time ago, and sometimes is able to do stuff with him. Right now ds has an electronics kit he likes to work on, but he wants more. That MAKE book looks like more. Nan, we have something like a Radio Shack nearby, and they do stock parts. Waving furiously back at you! I will try to e-mail you sometime.

Hi all, I am researching self-teaching books in electronics for my son, who loves to learn these types of things (computer programming) on his own. I came across the MAKE Electronics book, and found this thread that speaks favourably about it: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=407732&highlight=electronics. I also found this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Complete-Electronics-Self-Teaching-Guide-Projects/dp/1118217322/ref=dp_ob_title_bk. Can anyone compare these? Has anyone used the second book? Opinions?

Ooooo, I have found several of these in thrift stores over the years - I adore them!!! I've made pillowcases and curtains and bags out of them. OK, I think I finally have some pictures of recent projects to post. They are hats I crocheted for some baby twins, "sunglasses sleeve" (it slips over the lenses instead of enclosing the whole sunglasses), and reversible cotton padded bags with adjustable straps that I'm selling in craft fairs right now. In my signature is a picture of cotton hats I've crocheted for sale, too.

You're welcome. I just clicked the link I added, but it doesn't work and I don't know why. Anyway, just search for "taxonomy" under posts by "8FilltheHeart", and 21 posts should come up.

Just bumping this up for you, as I don't think my answer really answered your questions. Also, you might want to pm Laura Corin and Patty Joanna, who've had experience with this.

If one does a search for "taxonomy" under 8FilltheHeart's posts, many interesting threads will come up that might spark discussion here, too. ETA: Here is a start: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/search.php?searchid=13386962 ETA again: The link doesn't work - I don't know why. Anyway, if you just search the term under her posts, 21 posts come up.

p.s. A poster who has been very helpful to me over the years, Nan in Mass, used to describe what she did (some resemblance to what I just posted) as "classical unschooling." When my oldest was very young, I devoured many books about unschooling - they were really helpful to me in seeing how learning was actually fun. Then the WTM book became helpful to me in seeing how I could create frameworks for that fun learning. Then I saw Nan marry the two concepts under that label, and it hit home for me. The idea behind the WTM book is general learning principles and general age brackets for various subject areas; but once you understand that, you can adjust the ideas to your individual son. That's why I said that for example it doesn't matter if he puts WWS off for awhile while solidifying WWE skills. hth