I so agree with Laura. Be wary of the child learning that he embarrasses you or whatnot (whether or not you really think that -- remember he can't read your mind), because come middle school age, it will start coming from other kids. He needs to have that solid inner security from Mom&Dad. Of course, teaching the child to practice humility is another topic altogether ... Karen

... for my very extremely mathy DS after he completed PM 6. I spliced the two curricula by topic & chapter. I used Fred for the spine and spliced in the appropriate chapters of NEM, either right before or right after the Fred chapters. At some point, you leave NEM 1 and go into NEM 2, and eventually NEM 3 for a couple of chapters (I think). This worked great for us. We repeated the approach for Geometry, also using Fred and NEM. The boy sure knows his algebra and geometry after all this! Karen

... we have used Singapore from level 3 through secondary. The CWP and IP are indispensible IMO. We use IP concurrently with the text, and CWP about 1/2 year behind, which conveniently serves as a review as well as word problems practice. :) Karen

Nan -- yes, yes, yes ... I feel your pain LOL. Karen

... and looking for ways to cope. At the same time, I'm looking forward to exploring philosophy, lit, & history (especially) with increasingly adult-level discussions, etc. I heard a quote from William F. Buckley: "In order to get a high grade on the SAT, you don't have to know what the right answer is; you have to know what the shnook who made up the question thought the right answer is." OK, I can deal with that. I am working on teaching this concept to my ds14, who is one of those kids who reads so much into everything, wants to know all the details and how they all fit together into Ultimate Truth. He will see it as "dumbing things down," which might cause an attitude problem :001_huh: But if he understands these are the hoops he has to jump through in order to get to the place he wants to go, I think he'll be fine. Real life really is full of hoops ... just think of the License Bureau, etc. Sigh. As Steven Covey says, "Begin with the end in mind." Well, testing is a cross, but it will not last for very long, in the end. Karen

Ds14 is a math freak and wants to be a mathematician. He spent this last winter teaching himself calculus just for fun, not curriculum. He keeps the calculus text next to his bed, like where I keep my scifi and detective novels kwim? Sheesh. So I have the great advantage of knowing what his passion is :). It means we have to do the hard-core college-prep thing. Well, that gives me a structure to work within, so that's good for me, not necessarily so great for him. He already started a C++ programming course I bought for his 9th-grade lineup, sigh. Electives are not going to be a problem, but keeping the interest in the cores might be (especially writing & lit). Here's my plan for him at this point lol: 9th: Advanced Alg. & Trig, mainly for the paper trail AP Bio, at the public high school (if that doesn't work out, do it myself) German, also at the public high school (if that doesn't work out, maybe Latin online or myself) World History & Geography, Duiker & Spielvogel English Grammar & Comp, Warriner World Lit, coordinate with history, I'm already pre-reading Health & Personal Finance, canned programs with supplements PE, fencing lessons he is already taking & loving Fine Arts, Geography Through Art & ??? May & Summer: AP Bio test, begin ACT, etc. trail, maybe CLEPs or SAT IIs to validate the home-taught courses. Begin networking with math profs, college students, a math guy we know who works for the NSA, etc. 10th: Finish up Pre-Calculus topics, mainly for the paper trail "Special Topics" in math, for love AP Physics or Chem, public high school German, public high school American History & Geography, Bill Bennett's new curriculum American Lit & Comp PE, Fine Arts, electives ??? "Education Foundations", a course I'm making up to cover diverse materials on how people learn, the history of education in the US, etc. (stole the idea from Barb Shelton) 11th: Calculus at local state college Science, at local state college or public high school German, local state college or public high school American Govt. & Civics Economics British Lit & Comp electives ??? 12th: Continue what works at state college or publich high school 20th Century History & Lit, I hope electives ??? maybe a job ??? It seems so overwhelming, but I know he can do it if he really wants that math career. Karen

Our experience FWIW: Saxon was gag-me boring for my math-gifted son -- it was used in the school he attended through 4th grade. We went with Singapore when we began home schooling and never looked back. After SM 6, we began the NEM series, but I resequenced it to conform to the standard American sequence of Alg I, Geom, Alg II. Also at that point (algebra), we added Life of Fred and REALLY never looked back. He used both curricula concurrently. Kid just turned 14 and spent this past winter teaching himself calculus using the LOF text -- I'm a Purdue engineer, and Kid understands calculus better than I ever did -- it works! Singapore is cheap and you can buy only what you want. We used just the texts, workbooks, and Challenging Word Problems (used 1/2 year behind as review) for gifted son. When less-enthusiastic daughter came along 2 years later, we added Intensive Practice to her cycle. If the student needs more review/practice, that's easy to find -- either Singapore's extras (Extra Practice, IP) or free worksheets online or store-bought workbooks or whatnot. I highly recommend Singapore for gifted kids or just math lovers :) Karen

We are a college bound family. At present, ds wants to be a mathematicisn. We have used LOF with great success for ds's Algebra I and Geometry courses. It is our spine. It is his favorite math series ever -- and this is a bonafide math geek :) We also splice in NEM by topic for the Singapore Slant on things and a variety of problems. LOF tends to be short on problem sets, though I hear the Home Companion books have additional (we haven't used those yet, but might in future). We plan to follow this same basic approach through Prob. & Statistics, Alg. II, and Pre-Calc. For Calculus, I expect to send ds to the local college, though if that doesn't work out, we'll do LOF Calculus at home, too. Another poster mentioned trouble adjusting from a spiral method to LOF. That would be a big adjustment. LOF absolutely expects the student to master the topic before moving to the next topic. If you're used to a spiral approach, you'll probably feel pounded upon by the mastery approach. :001_unsure: And if reading is a problem, LOF is not the curriculum to use. It is reading intensive. There are many different fonts used, and I personally find it physically difficult to read in places (old eyes, ya know). The youngsters here don't seem to have a problem with that :001_smile: Karen

For math: We are in a similar boat with our son. He is beginning "8th grade" now (age 13). He just completed Geometry in 7th grade, having done Algebra I for 6th grade. Right now, he is reading the Life of Fred Calculus book just for grins <gotta love it>. Here is what I am currently doing/planning: 8th grade: Probability & Statistics, Special Topics -- why not Alg. II? Because I looked ahead and realized he'll be ready for calculus courses way too young if we don't slow him down. I want him to take calculus at hte local college, but (for non-academic reasons) not before he's 16. So that means I have to fill in a year. So it's this year, and he wants to learn Statistics anyway. At the end of the year and over next summer, he'll review the last half of Alg. I to prepare for ... 9th grade: Algebra II 10th grade: Trig, Analytic Geometry, Pre-Calc 11th and 12th grades: Calculus (3 sem.) and something else (1 sem.) at local college For science: 8th grade: This year, he'll be doing Physical Science using a college book I was given. I'm adding simple experiments, and he'll work a couple of Scout badges in with it. Learning to write up lab reports will be a big goal for this year -- he hates the physical act of writing, and it will be a challenge for him to keep a legible, complete lab book. 9th grade: Biology, again using a college text I was given. We'll get a microscope and do lots of that and dissections for labs. I will have him take practice AP exams to gauge whether to have him do that exam for real. If not, maybe CLEP. 10th grade: Physics, materials TBD. 11th and 12th grades: Chemistry and something else at local college. I really want him to do chem labs with a real fully-equipped lab, not just kitchen counter labs, so that's why I'm delaying Chemistry to 11th grade when it's usually given right after Biology -- so he can take it at the college with full labs. That's the plan for now, anyhow :) Karen

A boy your son's age would probably enjoy Life of Fred. In your position, I think I would have him start with the pre-algebra (Fractions & Decimals) books. Now, we haven't used those particular books, as we were already doing Singapore, but that's where I'd start with an already 11yo. After that, he'll probably be all set to start algebra. :) Karen

Our church has an annual yard sale as a major fundraiser, and I have been going in as I can to help sort/fold/clean items .... so today I was going through a box of mostly textbooks and found a high school Geometry book. Now, you will see me promoting Singapore and Life of Fred on these boards, but I am not so fanatical that I won't consider anything else worthwhile :) And for my dd, who will never be a mathematician, I need to find something besides LOF -- she has stated firmly that she won't do those books LOL. I looked through this book I ran across today -- it looks out of the box new, it contains all the proper topics by chapter (including a chapter devoted to explaining the logic of proofs!), looks like all the topics are there in a reasonable sequence, answers for the odd problems ... the negatives are mainly that it's a CA and PA approved text (oh, my bigotry is showing), and it has lots of pictures and is very colorful (not my preference, but dd won't mind). So I asked whether I could pre-purchase it and they sold it to me for $0.67. Did you see that? Less than one dollar for a gorgeous hardbound decent-looking Geometry text -- celebrate with me!!! :lol: Karen

:iagree: What she said -- all of it, really ! The first 4 chapters of NEM 1 are pre-algebra: Ch.1 WHole Numbers: Operations, factors/multiples, primes, HCF/LCF, patterns, variables, basic number laws Ch.2 Fractions, Decimals, and Approximation Fractions: add/Subtr of fractions, Mult/Div of fractions, decimals, approximation, conversion, estimation Ch. 3 Arithmetic Problems: Units of measure, word problems Ch. 4 Real Numbers: Negative numbers, add/sub of integers, mult of integers (sq. roots), div of integers, rational/irrational numbers, order of calculation, mental calculations Not until Chapter 5 do they start seeing a, b, x, y. However ........................................ those word problems can be doozies. It is one of the strongest aspects of the Singapore Primary series, and if the student isn't up on that, NEM is going to be one big bear. So, what she said about using Challenging Word PRoblems or otherwise learning How To Solve Word Problems, which is a separate skill set above and beyond the arithmetic skills involved. Hope that makes sense. Karen

We use both LOF and NEM. LOF is a complete math program. Don't let the fun aspect trick you into dismissing it as a supplement. It is demanding, and the geometry text is proof-driven like you would not believe. And when the kid sneaks the books out of the storage cabinet to read in bed, you know you have a winner :) These texts are short on practice sets and there are no review sections at all. The author is legendary for his availability and willingness to help. NEM is also demanding. It takes a different slant on things, which I really like. There are no 2-column proofs, but many of the geometry exercises are essentially proving various theorems -- they just aren't named or explained in that way. Their word problems can't be beat. I've been told the teacher's guides aren't that helpful. There are plenty of problems and periodic revision (review) sections. There is a solutions manual for levels 1 and 2, but not 3 or 4. Our solution is to use both. LOF is our spine, and NEM gets spliced in by chapter/topic. So we get both slants on the topic, the fun of Fred, the problem sets of NEM, lots of word problems, what's not to like? But my ds is a math freak and can handle this load. For my up and coming dd, who does not enjoy math so much, I may take a different path. Hope this helps, Karen

Yes. However, I must add that we also use Singapore's NEM to add practice and for their different slant on things. Skimpy practice sets are a perennial issue with LOF. So far, my ds has done Algebra I and Geometry with LOF. For next year, his 8th grade, he will do the Statistics course. On his high school transcript: 9th: Advanced Algebra 10th: Trig & Pre-Calc (using Singapore College Math and/or parts of LOF Calculus) 11th & 12th: Calculus at the local uni. At least, that's the plan at this point :) Karen

Two reasons here: (1) I never really "got" grammar fully until I tried to teach diagramming (while learning it myself) to my kids. It was a real light-bulb for me. I am a visual-spatial thinker, and having a diagram makes all the difference in the world. So if you're trying to present infomation in various ways, to appeal to different learning styles or just for variety, diagrams can be an important component of that effort. (2) Diagrams show clearly the relationships between the words/part of speech in the sentence. I guess you could say it takes the understanding of grammar to a deeper level than just naming parts of speech does. Karen

Oh my land!!! Horrendous is not an adequate word for that! Hugs to both of you for enduring that nonsense. If you think it might help, please assure him from a degreed engineer, who knows a thing or two about showing your work, that is NOT what showing your work is about! :tongue_smilie: Karen

:iagree: I've seen this sort of thing several times. I just figured they have nothing to lose by pricing it high and want to see what the market will bear :001_rolleyes:

We use Singapore and Key To -- when we come to, say, the fractions unit in Singapore 4, we drop Singapore and go to Key To Fractions. When that is complete, return to the unit in Singapore. Oh, and at the lower levels, we periodically used flash cards and free online printouts for arithmetic fact drills -- we would do a couple-three of those sheets as a day's lesson instead of the Singapore books. For Algebra and Geometry, we use Singapore NEM combined with Life of Fred -- Fred is the spine,and the NEM chapters are spliced into the Fred sequence. I don't remember whether we approach a topic first with Fred or NEM, but I do remember trying to be consistent about that when I made up the schedules. Karen

Sounds like he's ready for fractions, etc. ? If so, I would try Life of Fred and see how he likes it. Now, we haven't used the pre-algebra Fred books, only Algebra and Geometry, so you're notified ... but your son sounds like just the "type" for Fred's wacky humor and minimal busy-work. I have one of those boys :) Karen

I recommend asking at the www.singaporemath.com forum. You can find direct comparisons there, and Jenny (moderator and author of the NEM solutions manuals) is very proactive in helping/answering. Karen

:iagree: And the author is readily available by email to help if needed. Be sure to invest in the Home Companion guide for lesson plans and additional helps. Karen

We use it, but there are things to take into consideration. It is quite advanced compared to the math expected of kids the same age in the U.S. It is "integrated" to some extent, in that algebra and geometry are presented in each year. The teacher's guides are not all that helpful for teachers who aren't all that advanced in math themselves. The geometry is taught without proofs. Well, actually, proofs are in there, but they are implicit, not the traditional 2-column proofs so well known and loved in the U.S. :) So .... we do it with modification. We actually use two curriculua -- to get a different slant on the material, and to get the 2-column proofs, which I don't want the kids to miss out on. For the current child, we're using Life of Fred alongside NEM. We do math in the traditional U.S. sequence, not the NEM sequence, which means using LOF as the spine and splicing in NEM by topic/chapter. And I'm an engineer, so the content is not an issue for me as the teacher. For the next child, who is good at math but doesn't particularly enjoy it, we might well have an interim year between PM 6 and NEM. I bought the Russian Math 6 and I like it a lot, so it might fill that gap. And that very delicate flower of a girl child will NOT be using LOF, so we'll have to find something else :) That's a lot of modifications, which is a lot of work, and I think someone who loved Singapore less might not want to go there. And I don't blame them :) Karen

Most weeks do not have their own notes. The vast majority of the notes are tied to the specific books. I just checked my Core 6 and Week 1 is the only week with that kind of notes. You'll notice it's general information about how to use the SL approach. Karen

They all have different objectives. Extra Practice is more of the workbook -- practice, drill. Intensive Practice is just that -- more intense, deeper -- application, extension. CWP focuses on word problem solving -- a skill set all its own, above and beyond the arithmetic skills involved. Karen

My answers would be "not if your model is PS," and "it depends on the child." Institutional schools are set up the way they are for the purpose of moving huge crowds through a uniform template, with only minor variations. Home schooling is entirely outside this model, and we can do whatever is right for the individual souls in our charge. Please do not feel that you must model your home school after any institution. The institutions are not possessed of any venerable wisdom that you are missing. :) For kids before high school age, I would let the child's interests be the guide. As they approach high school, you'll need to consider what will be on the high school transcript, college admissions requirements, etc. If college is in your child's future, you will need to plan for jumping through those hoops. Does this help? Karen