Well, I think you are in the minority. My dd is 7, and has been invited to the movies, out shopping, skating, to the museum, to the fair, to the beach, to the mountains, out of town to visit relatives with a friend, and all sorts of other places where she needs spending money for the last 2-3 years. This is pretty much the norm for children where I live.

Yeah, but you have to think about things like enrolling the child in school, what happens if the child needs to go to the hospital? What about applying for college loans? It isn't just as simple as taking in a kid with no paperwork. A kid has to have a legal guardian in some form. The 17 year old could technically emancipate himself and live anywhere he wants.

When your kids go places with friends, do you expect the friend's parents to pay for everything? Why not teach kids to be good consumers and not buy junk in the first place?

He needs true peers. He needs a group of kids where he is middle of the pack. This will help him see that while he is different from typical kids his age, there ARE kids out there like him and he fits in somewhere. When people say things like this to dd, she and I try to use it as an opportunity to educate them. People are born with varying abilities. There are things she is really good at and things she is not so good at. "You're a genius" - No, but we know several kids who are. "How did you know all that?" - I like to read and learn about this stuff. "You're 7 and in the 4th grade?" - Yes, my school allows me to work at the right level for me. I am not bound by age constraints like many kids are. If she had another type of special need, she would get questions about it, I'm sure. But having other kids like her in her life makes it easier to not feel like a freak, and has enhanced her relationship with typical kids as well.

We don't reward things you are supposed to do anyway. You either do it or not, but if you choose not, you are choosing the consequences of not. Freedom comes with responsibility here. You don't show the responsibility, you don't get the freedom. If you aren't mature enough to hold the pencil correctly, you aren't mature enough to say- watch TV. If dd wants something badly enough, she can ask for it. She knows we generally are not going to buy toys unless it is Christmas or her birthday. A lot of people give her money and she is very stingy. She has quite a bit saved up, but she doesn't like to spend. She knows she can wait for holiday time to ask for what she wants. One thing I have never had happen is for my kid to throw a fit in a store over something she wanted. She likes to go in the store to look at toys, but she never asks for anything. Once she asked for a piece of candy at the checkout, we said no, and she put it back. We do give dd money, but usually just if she is going somewhere she needs it, like if a friend invites her to the mall or on a trip, etc.

By the time my dd was 15 months old, she could name the President, Vice President, Secretary of State, Speaker of the House, Attorney General and tell you that Saddam Hussein lived in Iraq. When she was just over a year old, she heard the beginning of a Libby Dole commercial and started shouting "Dole! Dole!" from her crib right around the corner. We did not actively encourage this. We just always have the news on a lot and she was interested. VERY interested. I got a short audio clip of her when she was barely a year old if you are in the mood for some political cuteness. When she was 2, we were watching the State of the Union and President Bush made a comment against gay marriage. Dd asked what he was talking about so we explained. Her reply was that she wanted to spank the President. I sent this in with a few other of her quotes for a greeting card contest from Kate Harper designs and they published it. Her first presidential election happened when she was 3. It was then we started to discuss the two major parties. I have no desire for dd's political views to reflect mine in any way, and neither does my husband. She is her own person and can make her own informed decisions about those things. While we discuss politics around here on a regular basis, we try to do our best to always present different sides. However, there is nothing like having other people around to talk politics with also, people who don't mind dd asking tough questions. Simply reading the newspaper and watching the news daily can make learning the basics really easy. We talk about givernment at the dinner table, it's not just something that comes up in the fall. We don't just talk national politics, but state and local issues as well. Then there is the history of political parties and the ways they have evolved over time. Dd just finished a great class about characteristics of past Presidents. She got to compare and contrast them to see what charateristics are common among many elected leaders. What factors caused third parties to be more successful, stull like that. Dd is using The Art of Argument this year to study informal logic, which has enhanced her studies in political science greatly.

Um- in short no. A Star Wars nut can and will connect anything and everything to Star Wars somehow. But- two can play that game. Star Wars word problems are a great addition to math. ;)

Under the Christmas tree this will go if they still have it next week when get paid I do. Thanks!

:iagree: I think this applies to household chores as well. It's much easier to teach kids when they are little and are more enthusiastic about learning and helping.

I disagree with this. I think older people grew up when children were expected to use more common sense. There wasn't always an adult right there all the time to supervise every little thing the kids did. The kids were expected to know how to act and if they didn't act like they were supposed to there were consequences. They were also allowed to experience the natural consequences of doing that stupid stuff all kids try inevitably. All that aside, my dd7 has been on treadmills before, but she is not very familiar with them because we don't have one. Even though she knows better than to play on one, I would still supervise her until I was sure that she knew how to operate it properly and had some experience with the different speeds, etc. I don't have age limits on stuff like that. For me it's about maturity and amount of common sense, not age. In our house freedom comes with responsibility. You don't show the responsibility, you don't get the freedom no matter what age.

I'm going to channel my MIL here and say "What ever happened to the word no?" Then I'm going to channel my German neighbor who said, "If you don't teach them what no means by the time they are 3, you are going to have problems for the rest of your life." We don't limit media here at all. My daughter stays so busy between school other activities she's lucky if she gets to watch a 2 hour movie. If I notice she is vegging out to much, I suggest another activity or send her outside to play. We play a lot of pranks here too. We don't use them as forms of discipline though.

It is tricky if not impossible since you are out of state and are not family. You would have to call CPS and get more info. I would also call your local CPS and see if they have any additional info to offer.

What you are describing is verbal abuse which is also a form of emotional abuse. Isolation and exerting inappropriate control are also forms of emotional abuse. There is a fine line between the way people do things as a family and making a huge deal over a cookie- especially when it was known beforehand the class was having a party that was celebrating a holiday the family did not.

:iagree: What would happen here is that the letter would be read and a call would be made to Social Services. The privacy issues would prevent them from contacting anyone other than a legal guardian about issues with the children. As for the gifts, I would sell them now but put the money into an interest bearing account for the children when they are grown.

But see- we are talking MAINSTREAM activities here. My gay friends don't expect the kid's to be making traditional mother's day cards at their rainbow kids group. But they do expect this to go on when they send their kids to church. My Jewish friends don't expect their kids to make Christmas cards at the Synagogues, but they do expect this when they send their kids to school. My Muslim friend has to make special arrangements when it's prayer time. He wouldn't have to do that in his own country because over there it is mainstream to pray at a certain time. But he's not in that country. I would never take my kid to a Jewish party and tell them my kid is a Christian so they are going to have to do things differently. I would expect my child to fit in as best she could and would make EVERY effort to make sure she did. It was my choice to bring my child there. Now, if a place refuses to make special considerations for kids or families of different lifestyles when they are approached, that is discrimination and is very wrong. Like if some place said my child couldn't come because she is Christian or my friend's child can't come because her parents are gay. Or if my friend's boss said he couldn't pray at a certain time. It comes down to common sense and religion does not excuse the absence of that. If your lifestyle is so fringe that mainstream life is offensive to you- don't expect to sign your kids up for activities at places where there are other kids from different families and like everything that goes on. What really irks me is that so many people complain about having things in Spanish in our country since so many Americans speak it now. A lot of these same people want others to make exceptions for their "religion". Absurd. (our church is actually very active in amnesty efforts for illegal immigrants FWIW so I am not lumping all religions in there).

See, most people would not have made a big deal out of this at all though. I think it's great you talked to the organizer afterward. I would want parents in activities I'm in charge of to do the same. If your child is struggling with religion it is a different thing than just an ordinary parent and kid situation. I would categorize that as a "special need" because the child is undergoing internal emotional turmoil. This must be a phenomenon exclusive to homeschoolers. We generally don't sign up for anything that has "homeschool" in the title. My dd has never participated in anything- even at church- where the kids under 10 didn't at least get a themed sticker. Because if the kid can't eat the cookie for dietary reasons and can't decorate it for religious reasons what else is there?

I choose to treat my child like a human being, not a dog that needs to be "trained". If I am doing a good job my child will have enough common sense to know what is appropriate and what's not. You are right, we are coming at this from very different POV.

And like I said, I as a teacher can only do so much if the parent shows up with the child the day of and expects me to work magic. I will find SOME way to keep the kid included but I can do much better when the parent includes such info on the registration form or talks to me beforehand. I plan my classes for an entire group of children, not just one child. I would never agree to not do a class activity for a holiday just because one parent objected. I would instead work with that parent to keep their child included and it is always the parent's option to keep their child home that day (without of course making a big deal about it to the child - I have a friend who is a single by choice parent and she always makes other plans for Father's Day) so they wouldn't feel excluded. My dd's ballet class did a special dance to the Monster Mash that they had worked on for the last 3 weeks. It incorporated all the things they have been working on thus far. The students can also dress in costume the week of Halloween. The staff always keeps extra costumes from recital for the little bitty ones because there is always that one little kid whose mom forgets and is the only one without.

Well then the mom needs to "read the memo" because I have never signed my daughter up for anything where they didn't do some sort of something for any of the mainstream holidays- even if it's just giving out themed stickers.

Bad example. What I'm talking about is taking your child out into the street where the other kids are playing, then telling him he can't play for reasons his young mind can not possibly understand.

I have never heard this Christmas song. What is it called? That's terrible!!!! Ah, let us not muddy the waters here. We aren't talking about the child's safety. We are talking about THIS parent in THIS situation. We are talking about a class activity designed to be a fun and innocent way for children to celebrate a holiday designed for children that most children in American celebrate. This parent could have kept her child included in the activity while still maintaining whatever religious standards- like I said the child could draw a cross on a piece of paper. If the parent has such drastic beliefs why is the child in the class at all- unless mom didn't "read the memo"? I guess we could give the mom the benefit of the doubt in not realizing most classes have special activities around the holidays. As for me, and for my friends who have lifestyle choices outside the mainstream, we explain to our children that they might not be able to participate in some things the exact same way as everyone else, but there is still room for them to be CHILDREN and even though we might have to do things a little differently, they are not subjected to being led into a class where children are doing a fun activity and being totally excluded from that activity altogether. THAT's what I call going overboard on black and white. And we are talking about throwing away common sense here. Someone having a religion or other personal belief (even if it's just being a heath nut) that prevents them from eating certain foods is a far cry from being shocked at the fact you show up to a children's class on a children's holiday and kids are doing fun and childish activities.

My dd got a ziplock baggie with like 12 pieces of candy in it from the preacher. He and his wife went to the church festival, came home, and still turned on their light at 9PM to hand out treats to the late nighters.

But when you cast aside all reason and common sense- in this case it is a COOKIE- that is where things cross the line. It only becomes "evil" in the eyes of the child if the parents make it evil. ITA it is not abusive to have a family standard against the flow of the mainstream. I face that myself in certain areas. However, when the child is set up to be excluded- when the parent knows good and well she can sit the child down and have her paint a cross on paper when all the other kids are having fun- it just robs the child of the opportunity to be a child and forces that child to take responsibility for the feelings of the parent, which IMHO is emotional abuse.

So we should force kids at that age to be "saved" or whatever, even if they don't fully understand what it is they are doing yet? It's okay to be "saved" just to appease adults? Is that real salvation? Why shouldn't my child have a whole lot of latitude to explore her faith? At what age are children actually people with their own thoughts, feelings, and desires?

Awwww- I'm gonna cry cause my dd has grown out of the wearing those oh-so-adorable clothes stage! I like her designs very much and will pass on the link to some friends of mine with little girls. That's such a talent. My mom was a clothing designer and I am totally jealous of the ability to turn the vision into a beautiful product like your sister has.