HOD has this scheduled for their new RevtoRev program, but I haven't heard anything about it. Want to hear from anyone who has an opinion on it! MP

I'm wondering this too! I have never heard a peep about this program. :001_huh:

I've heard from reading threads on the HOD board that Beyond is quite a bit different from Adventures, despite the fact that they share a common history spine, Pioneers and Patriots. And Bigger is very different from Beyond, a totally different focus and approach, no pioneers at all! Preparing after that, is a one-year world history focus.

Summary narrations are in CTC. Oral summary narrations are scheduled for the read aloud selections. Written summary narrations are assigned with the extension books. We use DITHOR, but have only been using it for a little while. It does take a little extra planning to familiarize yourself with the guide, and look at it ahead of time to know which days are independent and which days are teacher directed each week. I also photocopy the student pages out of each book since the workbook is pretty spendy to use as consumable, IMO. Then I put the week's worth of worksheets in my dc's folders. I'm really liking it so far. I love the character study. I also love the fact that it uses real books, and any that you choose. We've done Pathway and CLE for reading in the past, and I like those too, but I just really like using whole books for teaching reading. Seems to make more sense to me. We don't have the Book Projects book so I can't speak to that. I like the instructions in the guide about how to teach my child to read out loud well, and to have them read a few pages out loud to me. I hadn't been doing that before what has turned out to be very beneficial. I'm even using the 6/7/8 manual with high school level books for the high schoolers. I think it's plenty challenging so far! BTW, would anyone like to give me a quick-and-dirty synopsis of what the WTM/SWB approach is to writing? It's been several years since I read TWTM, and I haven't looked at WWE very closely before. It would help me in following the comparisons with the method/philosophy to CM. :001_smile: Thanks!! MP

I second Teaching Textbooks for your older child. For your overall, open and go, scheduled curriculum, I'd use either MFW or HOD. I'd lean toward HOD at this point based on some of the things you mentioned, and also the fact that you wouldn't be combining your two dc this year anyway due to their ages. I use HOD and it is SO open and go and easy to implement, truly. I also have a toddler and newborn this year and we are still using it successfully :)

I think the D'Aulaire books from Beautiful Feet are da bomb :tongue_smilie:and are well worth getting. I'd get the entire set if I could. They are great for ages kindy up to 5th or 6th.

This is very similar R&S 2, which I am doing this with my son right now. The longer I use R&S English, the more I am impressed with it, and the lessons are short and sweet (woot! woot!) At first I missed using CLE, which is what we'd used before, but now I'm not sure we'll ever switch back. :) MP

Rev to Rev manuals won't ship until August. You can only preorder now. The rest of the package can ship now, just not the TM. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one too. :)

Also too, there are no more hands on activities after the Bigger guide. At that point it is simply an assignment schedule. So HOD doesn't offer anything Singapore wise after that point anyway.

I'm sorry, I've been trying to figure out for the last few weeks...but what is PR? :001_huh: MP

The dictation isn't poetry, or taken from the reading. It's taken from "Dictation Day by Day, Book One" by Kate Van Wagenen, which is a book published in 1916. I love it! It's quaint yet modern enough. :D I also use Spelling Wisdom books from SCM as well sometimes for variety. Yes Bigger is fun! It is just right for what I want - primarily academic but just enough activities and hands-on that the kids are happy. :001_smile: The crafts use regular stuff you're likely to have around, and there are a lot of other activities that are games or object lesson type things. They are easy to do and short, but fun and they usually are meaningful and go along with the lesson too. Brilliant, IMO. I get anxiety-ridden by activities that are too involved, take too long, are too crafty, take too many supplies, etc. :glare:, and I haven't had that with HOD. It's just a good variety of meaningful lessons and activities each day in about the right amount. Sometimes there's some things we don't get to, but most of the time that's not the case. Love it! I don't have the Preparing manual yet but I hear raves about it.

We follow the Bigger guide's LA pretty much as written: R&S: Every day copywork: Every day (copy the poem for the unit from the manual), plus Proverbs verse 1x/week narration: oral once every day, either from History, Science, or Storytime. Written narrations 2x/week only for my dd doing the Extension books dictation: Guide schedules 4x/week, but we do it every day handwriting: Every day Scripture memory: 1 each week from Proverbs study Vocabulary: 3 words from History text 1x/week There are spelling lists in the appendix you can use instead of dictation if you choose, with spelling activities to go along with them. We also do DITHOR, and there is additional writing and vocab in that. I also use Igniting Your Writing once or twice a week with my 11 yo dd, since she is at the upper age range for Bigger. I feel my dc get a broad range of LA skills across the curriculum in a very well-rounded way with this program. :001_smile: HTH- MP

HOD is very scripted.

"But in order for HOD to work here, especially with 4 guides (if you're counting the very 1st one) I would just take HOD's lesson plans and write them in my own lesson book divided out by independent work and "with mom" work. Of course, I reserve the right to leave something out and add something in (Latin, for sure) ...doing R&S at our own pace, substituting Saxon math. Is this the amount of tweaking that makes HOD lose it's beauty?" That depends on what it is you like about the program. I do what you described with my HOD programs since I have to schedule them into my day, move things around, etc. since I am schooling six dc. I don't even consider this tweaking. The boxes are just a visual breakup and grouping of each subject. For me I honestly don't care if it's set up this way or not, if HOD was set up in the more common weekly grid I would still use it. I like HOD for many other reasons, primarily the book choices and methods used to interact with the books. :) So I guess just ask yourself how much the actual materials and methods appeal to you vs. the way it is laid out. MP

"(Sorry to pick on you, MP. My intent is merely to give an example of opinion & preference vs. unbiased statements. It's really hard NOT to include opinion & preference in a review of something, so it's definitely not personal. ;) )" No problem. :D You are absolutely correct that there is no such thing as an unbiased review, and since we currently use and like HOD I am biased there. However there is nothing but warm fuzzies from me toward MFW, as I really, really like MFW and almost went with them instead of HOD. I am probably going with MFW for high school this next year. I was trying to emphasize that each of the differences between HOD and MFW boil down to personal preference only, not any inherent superiority of one over the other. Daily spread vs. weekly grid? Combine vs. not combined? Book basket vs. scheduled read-alouds? Scripted directions vs. more flexible guidance? All just a matter of what you want. It's like choosing between a brownie and a cookie. :tongue_smilie: Both delicious but some people prefer one over the other. :001_smile: And very true that while I have MFW manuals, I haven't used MFW so take my comments with a grain of salt. In any case, what I wanted to emphasize was that for the OP, I think based on what she said she wanted from a curriculum, MFW and HOD would provide what she was looking for much more than either SL or SCM. I have extensive experience with SL and SCM so just wanted to put that out there. :D MP

Not gonna make that chart :D, but I have used or own the manuals for all the currics you listed so I'll take a stab at some of your questions. I think you can rule out some of these based on what you want: " The main allure of a "packaged" curriculum for me is the inclusion of a guide that helps pull together and explain more of the history/Bible/science background." Ok, if you want this I think you can rule out SL and SCM pretty easily. Neither one will do this for you. Well I take that back. SCM's new history guides do intgrate Bible history and "other" history. Nothing with science though. SL doesn't explain diddly and there is very little interaction with the books. Everything is separated out there. MFW and HOD on the other hand, both do this extensively. - History Rotation (3 or 4 year, what is the progression, etc.) MFW uses the traditional four year rotation plus one year of cultures and geography to begin, after two years of Bible history and one year of American history. HOD's rotation is different. Bible/general world history to begin, two years of American history, one more year of world history, then begin the four year history cycle. SCM does four year rotation throughout. SL's cycle is all over the place and as near as I can tell there is not much rhyme or reason to it, well I guess primarily in the upper grades that is my complaint. The lower grades starts with world history for two years, then american history two years, then back to world history two years. - What they use for spelling, grammar, etc. MFW uses Primary and Intermediate Language Lessons and spelling Power. Delays hard core grammar instruction until 7th grade. HOD uses R&S English from 2nd grade on. SL has an integrated approach Ruth Beechick flavor integrated with the readers (this is my fave feature of SL, really like the LA. ) Some find it scattered though. SCM - can't remember right now. - Main differences in guides (that would be hard to discern very quickly- maybe someone knows!) These are manifold of course, but one of the main differences in guides between HOD and MFW is that HOD has much more detail, directions, and scripting in the guides. This is good or bad depending on what you like. Bible is more integrated into each subject. Also, the guides in HOD build on each other skillwise as you go, and get more independent as they go up. The others don't have this characteristic. Also HOD is the only one with a daily two page layout. The others have a weekly grid. - Whether they incorporate Bible into the history or science, as far as the teacher's guide and activities go HOD does this mega, MFW as well, but to a bit lesser extent. SL not at all, SCm does this with history. - whether many activities are suggested, or if it's mainly read, narrate, dictate, etc. HOD and MFW both do this very much. I think HOD has a bit more discussion interaction with the books than MFW - one reason why i chose it. SCM has a very few activities in their history guides. SL has very little, although I see they have added some activities to their lower guides. - whether science is done through living books, or is a certain program recommended HOD science is heavy on living books and biographies, with some textbooks as well. SCM recommends a program. SL puts together some living books for the lower cores, recommends apologia for the upper grades. MFW I think uses some living books too. - how long they say each day should take (I know it would vary by grade, but even comparing one grade would be awesome!) - how many read-alouds are suggested for the year...how many independent books...is there a supplemental "book basket" type thing, like MFW? Can't answer this one for you right quick! - wonder how each company SAYS they are different, or what they say their strong points are? A main selling point (and deal breaker for many) for HOD and MFW is that HOD emphasizes meeting each child where they are at with their own individual program, and MFW emphasizes combining your children and learning together (grades 2-8). There are other differences and strong points as well but this is a major difference right off the bat that either attracts or repels. There are also significant differences in books between the two. Book Basket in MFW vs. scheduled books in HOD (although you can swap out read alouds in HOD for different ones). I don't know if any of this helps because it isn't in a chart format! Sorry I know those are helpful to see everything at a glance. So I may have just been totally unhelpful.:D But at the very least I think you could probably rule out SCM and SL based on what you said you wanted in general with a curriculum. JMHO. MP

Yes indeed, I've thought that too. This last program is on par with an upper Sonlight core. :glare: But I think that is the nature of the beast with lit-based curriculums. As far as the library goes, I went through the entire book list from Rev to Rev and checked at my library, and my library system has only a very few books in that program. Maybe other library systems would be better. That said, I think the books are outstanding and that the program is worth every penny. :)

Bigger with extensions is most definitely meaty. I am using it with my 11 almost 12 year old right now and it has challenged her! Be sure to do the follow-up narrations and writing with the extension books to get the full effect. This is detailed in the appendix of the Bigger manual. MP

I've heard on the HOD boards that other moms who've had that same problem (already read the history spines in Beyond) were advised to go ahead and do the program they place in anyway, and had a great year. This is because the books are used differently in the HOD program and so it has a very different feel. I don't think it would be a problem to go through the same time period again. The most important thing for happiness in the HOD guides is proper placement, so look at the placement chart on the HOD website and go by their skills rather than ages. If they place in Beyond you would likely be happier there than with Bigger. We are doing Bigger this year and I don't know that the books would engage a 6 yo. They are definitely geared for a little older age group. You can actually look at the Eggleston books online (which are the history spines for Bigger) at the Gutenberg project website (let me know if you can't find it and I'll link it for you), and that should give you a good idea if you want to consider Bigger or not. My inclination would be to advise you to stay with Beyond - Pioneers and Patriots is only one book of many used in the program, and kids often enjoy and benefit from books being read over again. :) Hope this helps, MP

I agree with the pp that you may be overfilling your plate...don't set your expectations too high and set yourself up for frustration. I have a large family too, as well as a new baby, and using Heart of Dakota programs is what works for us. All the planning is done :), with all your bases covered, and the programs at your dc's ages are short and sweet, and very enjoyable. The packages are inexpensive as well. :) You can add in however many library books you want just for fun, but the materials needed to run the program are in the package. I'd put your 6 yo in Little Hearts For His Glory. The entire thing takes about an hour and a half each day. It's simple and fun, but is thorough. I'd use Little Hands to Heaven for your two 4 year olds. It's preschool level and focuses on alphabet and beginning numbers. Also fun and easy to implement. Takes about 30 min each day, maybe a little longer if you are doing two. I'd think it would be excellent for your little one learning English. :) Also very inexpensive. That's my recommendation for a mama in your situation. I'd use it because it's open and go, no prep work whatsoever on your part, is planned and organized already, is way easy to implement, and the programs are just plain GOOD! :tongue_smilie: Then you'd also have time to do play-doh, etc. as time and energy allows. Simplify as much as possible. I think this would be as simple and easy and fun as it gets and would still be solid academically for your kiddos. :) My .02! heartofdakota.com to see samples and look at the packages. Order a catalog too. MP

We use HOD and will be using Preparing next year with two of my dc. To answer your questions: I believe it is a thorough coverage of one-year world history, both biblical and non-biblical history. This is because although there are several main books in the history portion that cover Bible history, the Child's History of the World book by Hillyer is the main History spine for the year (at least I think it's used throughout the entire year). I have this book already since I purchased it in an SL core a long time ago, so I know what's in it. It's pretty secular in nature and covers all of history in a non-biblical way. You can subsitute any science you like into HOD's programs and be fine. You do lose the natural connections that are made between the history and science that the author wrote into the program, but it doesn't ruin the program or anything. A lot of moms sub in their own science in HOD's programs, especially from Bigger on up. I do really like DITHOR. It takes about an hour at first to really read through the TM and get a feel for how it works, but once that is done it is easy to implement and I feel a very excellent reading program. I also really like the fact that you can use real lit books with it rather than "readers" like with other programs we have used. (we've used pathway and CLE, which we do like those books too, it's just a different setup). But DITHOR is an optional thing and is separate unto itself. You can use whatever reading program you desire. I'm really excited to teach Preparing next year, it's looks so good. We're using the extensions too, so even more books WOOHOO!:tongue_smilie: MP

abrightmom, I hear you on the desire to want to keep your kids together. I have 8 kids, 15 down to infant. I looked at HOD and MFW both extensively before deciding. I even purchased manuals from both and compared them side by side. I ended up with HOD because I felt, as you said, that HOD was richer, by a long shot. Of course one can only tell for sure by implementing the program for a time, but I went with my inclination. We've been using HOD for almost two years now. The "together" aspect of MFW still appeals to me, and I think about it sometimes. We are loving HOD so much though, it is SO rich indeed, and the guides are just genius. The more guides I use the more I think this. Carrie has a gift, and is detail-oriented to the max, and this shows in the guides. This is one of the main differences I saw in the HOD and MFW guides - HOD has more details, yet organized in a usable way. Some people love this, some are overwhelmed or irritated by it. I love it. Here's my thoughts and how we are implementing HOD: Since my kids aren't together with history, I do a daily lesson with all my kids together to start our day. We rotate subjects like art and composer study, geography, patriotic studies, latin root study, and nature study. My kids love this. Do my kids have to be studying history together to have unity? My thoughts lately have been I'm wondering if this is emphasized a wee bit much. I don't know. I like to have them separated for science anyway since I've found it doesn't work well to combine for that in the past. MFW has kids separated out entirely beginning in 9th grade anyway, so we are just talking about a five year span between grades 3 and 8. Or I guess 2 and 8. I was a little leery about actually trying to combine that big of an age range for history and science. Does it actually work well? It seems like that little 2nd grader would get left in the dust. I know it must work on some level though because I know people do it. Also, even though I love the idea of combining for history, I really REALLY love the school of thought that BF and HOD espouse regarding the history cycle. Starting little ones with basically scripture history and then American history, waiting to introduce ancients and other time periods until the child is older...basically waiting to start the classical four-year model until later. So that factors in for me as well. Also, have you looked at HOD's reading program DITHOR? We just started implementing this in earnest and it is amazing because: a) it teaches great literary analysis, b) it uses any books you want, c) it has character study and d) we can all do it TOGETHER!! I didn't realize this before. It's designed for this. I've even been including our high schoolers and it works great. It has daily studies you do together and projects at the end of each genre that you work on together as well. So we have been incorporating DITHOR into our daily family lessons together in the AM, and it is a great family bonding time. We also read and discuss books aloud together as a family each day. There are also components of HOD that I have combined all my kids together for just because I like it. For example I am going to combine my kids together to do the Bible study focusing on character in Bigger. We also combined all kids together during the art and poetry in last year's CTC. Everyone had a blast and just painted on their own level. We all memorized the poems together and took turns presenting and reciting them. So to sum up, we are finding other ways to study together and create family unity by studying other subjects. It's working wonderfully, and it hasn't been hard to do. Maybe one day that will change but for now this is our solution. And one last thought. After having used CTC, and about to use RTR and Rev to Rev, I've been thinking about these particular guides (and the soon to be released modern times guide). I've toyed with the idea of in the future combining all my dc together MFW style using those four Hearts For Him Through Time chronological HOD guides. I really think this would work, supplementing the youngers with lit at their level and combining everything else. CTC is pretty well sanitized of all violent/pagan god content and emphasizes the integration of Biblical and other ancient history, so would work well for younger dc in that regard. HOD's guides are overflowing with great ideas that can be implemented in any way you see fit for your family. A great tool. So those are my disjointed, rambling thoughts for all they're worth. I am impressed with how much thought and study you are putting into this for your precious dc! mp

Just an answer key in the back of the manual. You don't use it for much if you aren't doing the underlining exercises. The other thing about it is that it says it's for grades 3-12. I think it's much more in line with grades about 5-9. That's why I'm getting WWTB 2 for my high schooler. Is that what you mean about the 20,000 leagues being out of level? If you can download a sample first and go through it you should be able to tell what you think about it.

I have used CTC with two of my dc, they were in the extension range though. I don't see why it wouldn't work, as long as you are willing to adjust things for him as you go along and ease into it, like you said. The history books might be a little heavy for him to read independently, so you may have to read those aloud with him for a while. I know they would be for my 10 yo. The science would be perfect for that age, IMO. HOD tends to be advanced in the history material, and not so much in the science. MP

I am using this right now, however we have started it, stopped it, then picked it back up again. I can't answer all your questions but here's what I think so far: The program starts off with this infuriating (IMO) exercise that involves a passage where you underline the different parts of speech in different colors. It went well until I tried to correct it, it is set up horribly in the answer key and after about 15 minutes I just about flung the book across the room. :angry: I had a bad taste in my mouth after that and we floated on to some other stuff. I didn't end up liking anything else, so I pulled out WWTB a few months later and looked at it again. The horrible underlining exercise is only included once per unit so I've decided to skip that part and just do the rest. I really love the concept of the program (modeling writing after works of great literature) so I'm going to push through to the end. It looks like it has plenty of instruction and detail. It is broken up into lessons by "days" in each unit, and sometimes the lesson for one day is ridiculously short so I will assign two. Some of the lessons require a parent to work with the child and some don't, and you can only tell by reading ahead. To sum up, I think the content and instruction is wonderful, but it needs some improvement in format and layout. I've decided to work through it anyway, I think it will be good. I am planning on ordering WWTB 2 soon for my high schooler since I've heard it's quite challenging, and again, I am really sold on the concept. How's that for totally not helpful? :001_huh: I'd love to hear from someone who's used it all the way through. MP