We used SOTW for 2nd-5th grade. Both ds and I absolutely loved it. We are almost finished with HO Ancients 2. I have mixed feelings about HO. I'll paste my reviews below. To answer a few of your questions not in my reviews: Yes, HO is secular. One difference is that SOTW is mostly chronological and HO is mostly geographical. Some people have a preference one way or the other. I don't know what age you are considering these for. Keep in mind that we used SOTW for grammar stage and HO for logic stage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- We used Story of the World volume 1 through 4 starting in 2nd grade. I thoroughly enjoyed this curriculum. Honestly, the best part of this curriculum is learning history myself for the first time. I used to say that history was my weakest subject. I learned more in my son’s first year than I learned in my entire school career. I feel so good knowing that my son is being presented with history in a logical, engaging, and painless way. This curriculum allowed a history-ignorant mom to give her child a great introduction to world history and a love and enthusiasm for history as well. The readings are perfect for early elementary age – not too simple and not too difficult. The activity guide is a priceless resource, and we used every bit of it. That is what made the program so rich. Ds used the coloring pages while I read. We used the review questions usually verbally, but one year, I used the review questions to give my son practice in writing complete sentences. Doing narration and summary paragraphs helped with writing, although this was my son’s least favorite part. The map work was helpful. We borrowed many of the supplemental books from the library. We even read most of them. The activities and projects were fun and really helped to bring history alive and be remembered. We met with other families 2x a month to work on projects. Besides gathering the library books and project supplies, there really is no other preparation needed. For some people, this curriculum is too secular. For some people, this curriculum is too Christian. I prefer secular resources, and I thought SWB did a great job of introducing the different world religions in an unbiased manner. I highly recommend this program. It spoiled me. My only complaint is that that there is no similar program for logic age. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I chose HO because it's the only secular history program I know of for logic age. Ds would be in 6th grade this year. We have completed 63/66 lessons. I have mixed feelings about it. Pros: • History is all planned out • A large amount of history is presented • Outlining is learned and practiced • Map work and timeline work is helpful • Can be done independently Cons: • KHE is DULL (reading snippets of information and picture captions) • No review/discussion questions to assess comprehension and/or retention • Little supplemental reading • Required literature is rarely discussed, only read • History Pockets involve too much time for knowledge gained • Expensive if you buy package • Too much freedom for an unmotivated student to do a mediocre job • This is picky, but the study guide in the 3 ring binder format is completely falling apart because of all the flipping back and forth that has to be done. We have to keep those little, sticky o-reinforcements right in the binder because the pages are constantly being ripped out. 20/20 Hindsight: • Buy only the study guide (maps included) and timeline • Do not buy the supplemental books – get them from the library, substitute from the library, or buy used • Do not buy the History Pockets unless the child likes cut & paste & color • Add Life in the Ancient World by Bart Winer To be completely honest, I am not sure if part of my disappointment has to do with the fact that we used SOTW for 4 years and loved it. It's a hard act to follow, imo. --------------------------------------------------------------------------

I get them from Rainbow Resource: http://www.rainbowresource.com/search.php?sid=1209401369-1201184

I like the Dandy Lion logic books because they have a variety of puzzles, unlike MindBenders. Unless it's a problem, I would start them both in Logic Liftoff. If it's a problem having them both do the same book, I would use Orbiting with Logic with the older one instead.

I can say that I've been happy with Prentice Hall Science Explorer for 6th grade and plan to continue with it through 8th grade. That's the grades that it's intended for. We did try Human Biology and Health in 5th grade, but it quickly became apparent that it was over ds's head (thus Noeo). I have heard of more science-oriented families using it in 5th grade though. What has worked here for us is a combination of Science Explorer (more reading based) and TOPS (more hands-on). Dh just finished TOPS Rocks & Minerals with ds and just started Exploration Education. I know others have had good experiences with RS4K (particularly Chemistry) and Noeo. Good luck!

I don't know if you are considering all 3 RS4K Chemistry/Biology/Physics. That would be extremely expensive. We used RS4K Physics for 4th grade and Noeo Biology 2 for 5th grade. Since RS4K Physics is only a 10wk long program, I did a LOT of supplementing. The quality of the student book is exceptional, some of the experiments were phenomenal, some were duds. Some of the supplies were expensive. RS4K is very expensive for what it delivers. Noeo was year long, but would be good for a child who is more motivated and/or compliant and likes to learn by reading primarily. This does not describe my ds. The best thing I can say about Noeo is that it's easy enough to use the science does get done 2x per week. Here are my full reviews: We used RS4K Physics Level 1 for 4th grade. My son is not particularly science oriented. Neither am I. Pros: • Excellent quality student's text • Some of the experiments were fabulous (rolling a matchbox car down a ramp into a line of banana slices pinned to a piece of cardboard to see how much force is needed to smash the banana) • Experiments did a great job of adding math into physics Cons: • Expensive curriculum • 10 week program • Some expensive supplies • Some experiments didn't work (especially when I bought those expensive supplies) • Some of the material was over MY head Overall, I found it expensive for a 10 week program. If I am going to have to supplement a 10 week program to make it last a year, I may as well create the year long program from scratch. My 20/20 hindsight. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- We used NOEO Biology II with our 5th grade son. He is not particularly science oriented. Neither am I. I have mixed feelings about the curriculum. Pros: • Science is all planned out • Not too difficult for 4th-6th grade • Not time-consuming (30-45min 2x perweek) • Can be done independently • Young Scientist Club Kits were good • Secular Cons: • No review/discussion questions to assess comprehension and/or retention • Mostly reading 2 pages and writing short summary • Not challenging • Most experiment were lame • Body book is cut-and-paste • Too much freedom for an unmotivated student to do a mediocre job

We used NOEO Biology II with our 5th grade son. He is not particularly science oriented. Neither am I. I have mixed feelings about the curriculum. Pros: • Science is all planned out • Not too difficult for 4th-6th grade • Not time-consuming (30-45min 2x perweek) • Can be done independently • Young Scientist Club Kits were good • Secular Cons: • No review/discussion questions to assess comprehension and/or retention • Mostly reading 2 pages and writing short summary • Not challenging • Most experiment were lame • Body book is cut-and-paste • Too much freedom for an unmotivated student to do a mediocre job

It is described as Latin for the feint of heart. Here's a thread with my review in it: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7599&highlight=matin+latin

Ds, 6th grade, tried them earlier this year and immediately opted for Perplexors instead. He rarely had a problem with A1-A4. Personally, I'd wait.

Write Shop for junior high: http://www.writeshop.com/coopsclasses.htm

We've used MindBenders, Dandylion Logic, and Perplexors. All secular. I'm investigating The Art of Argument next for 7th grade.

Generally, ds does the regular ones on his own, needs a hint on 1/2 of the challenging ones, and is unable to do 2-3 of the challenging ones even with a hint. *I* generally need a hint on 2-3 of the challenging ones, and it's not unheard of that I don't really understand one of the challenging ones. :D BTW, we use CWP with MUS, but a year behind.

Sorry, I wasn't clearer. I plan on using MUS for Algebra 1 followed by Foerster's Algebra 1. After that, I haven't decided, but I'm thinking Jacob's Geometry, followed by Foerster's Algebra 2/Trig. Ds will do MUS Algebra 1 in 7th grade and Foerster's Algebra 1 in 8th grade. There is a world of difference between the two.

We've used MUS from K and are finishing Pre-Algebra this week. In general, yes. I probably had to add some drill in the early years, but I used the classic version back then. There is more review in the current version. No. I am planning on using MUS Algebra followed by Foerster's Algebra (more rigorous). I have a degree in math, and I do not believe (from lurking on the high school boards) that MUS is rigorous enough for math-oriented students in high school. My ds gets bored with anything that is not sports or video-game related. I haven't found any curriculum that does not bore him. Personally, I think that working on one major concept a year helps to solidify it in the student's mind. See my review in this thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=939&highlight=sue+st+pete We supplement with Singapore's Challenging Word Problems. We started with CWP 4 after MUS Epsilon. I wish I had started earlier. This year, I divided the #CWP (290) by #MUS lessons (30) for roughly 10CWP per week. We do math 3x per week, so ds does 3CWP per day. BTW, ds says CWPs are evil. Hope that helps!

First, I think parts-to-whole is easier for a Latin ignorant parent to teach. I think the strength is in the grammar. I think whole-to-parts is difficult for a Latin ignorant parent to teach. I think the strength is in the reading/translating. FWIW, I used Matin Latin (parts-to-whole) with ds in 4th-5th. Ds, in 6th, is now using Oxford Latin (whole-to-parts) with a very capable Latin tutor. I'm glad that he got the grounding in the parts-to-whole, because the grammar coverage in Oxford Latin is illogical to me.

Analytical Grammar can be done in a year for 8th grade and up. The videos at the website give you great information about it.

Is it possible for the both of you to "shadow" a student for the day? You might test the waters by making him responsible for arranging for the two of you to shadow for a day. That might nip his desire in the bud right away.

I'm investigating The Art of Argument for 7th grade.

and this would be too much for him. Neither one of us could handle more than one foreign language at a time. Unless that's his idea, I personally wouldn't pursue them both. I don't do vocabulary specifically. Studying Latin, a bit in Megawords (spelling) is going to have to be good enough for us. It's definitely more than I ever got. We've only been doing Logic 1x per week. I haven't seriously considered bumping it up to 2x per week. Maybe I ought to. 4x per week seems like a lot to me. Of course, my son and your son could be polar opposites and what you have may be fine for your son. My ds tends to be bright but unmotivated.

You don't want me to get up on my soapbox about the obnoxious cost of the hs fair in Orlando. Since we use MUS, I found out their participation in my area using this site: http://www.mathusee.com/events.php Good luck!

History at our House

Epsilon is all about fractions. The radius of a circle is introduced in the perfect spot - when you have learned enough about fractions and practiced enough to find the area and circumference of a circle. To find the area of a circle, you need to know Area = pi times radius squared. Pi is 22/7 in this book. It's a perfect application of the need to know how/why/when to multiply fractions. Why would the radius of a circle be introduced any earlier? So it could be forgotten? Zeta is all about decimals. The circumference and area of a circle is again found. This time using pi = 3.14. I have been amazed over and over and over again at the beauty, simplicity, and wisdom of the scope and sequence of MUS. Ah, but did you notice that the radius of a circle is introduced

I checked out TWEM from the library just a few weeks ago, but quickly felt intimidated. I work 30hrs/wk now (from home) and the time that I have for educating myself is extremely limited. As soon as she talked about spending x (can't remember) min per day, reading, taking notes, etc. I felt overwhelmed. Maybe I ought to try it again. :confused:

we abandoned Intermediate 1/2 way through and leapt to Delta. I love the new program. All things decimal are taught in Zeta, which would be somewhere in Advanced, I think, if you continue the classic curriculum. Look in your TOC and see if Intermediate gets to decimals. If not, Zeta or Advanced.

:iagree: Here is an excerpt from my review. Email me if you would like my obnoxiously detailed review of MUS. We started in K and will be finishing Pre-Algebra next week! Sometimes, people ask about testing. Here is my experience. When my son was about ½ way through Epsilon (5th grade), I had to have him evaluated due to state law. He took the Woodcock Johnson test (national test which only took 30 minutes total), and the results were startling. His math calculation came out upper 8th grade and his math reasoning came out mid 9th grade! It took me a while to understand this. It does not mean that he is doing 8th/9th grade math work. It means that my son, working at 5.5 grade level, does as well as the average 8th/9th grader. When he was ½ way through Zeta (6th grade), he took the Kaufman Test of Educational Achievement and scored post high school in math. Sometimes, people are concerned about the scope & sequence of MUS. If you look at the scope & sequence of some other math curriculums or what is being taught in your local elementary school, you may find it different from MUS. MUS uses a "mastery" approach. It focuses on single digit addition and subtraction in alpha, multiple digit addition and subtraction in beta, multiplication in gamma, division in delta, fractions in epsilon, and decimals in zeta, roughly 1st-6th grade. Other curriculums use a "spiral" approach. They do a little bit of addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions in each grade with each year getting progressively more difficult. This concerns some people. If they put their child in school in 3rd grade, their child may have not seen fractions at all, whereas the ps'ers would have seen simple fractions. This does not mean that the 3rd graders who have been taught simple fractions actually understand them, just that they have seen them. But, because MUS focuses on one concept each year, I see that as one of its strengths. I think it really helps the child to know multiplication (for example) until they know it forwards, backwards, sideways, and upside down. I think it helps to CEMENT it in the child's head.

Ds used to do a good bit of reading of whatever I got for him at bedtime. He doesn't do that so much anymore, so now he has 30min reading 3x a week. He gets to select the books from those I choose. I'll probably be increasing that next year.