Truly, maths can take a long time. my dd14 can spend her whole maths hour on one problem. My ds12 can spend his maths hour on half a page, when one page would be reasonable. My dd is doing hard maths. My ds is just not very quick at grasping each concept and takes a while to work out what is being asked of him. At the beginning of the year, I said one lesson a day. That wodl get us through the book in a year, nice and clean! Once they started taking 2 hours, I realised this wasn't going to work, so I now have them do maths for 1 hour. And for my son who is slow at calculations, he only does half the questions, and if he gets them mostly correct, he can move on. Otherwise it would take us 2 years to get through each year, which isnt really satisfactory either. And if dd get stuck on a difficult question she is to spend a reasonable amount of time on it, then she is to mark it and move on- we will ask for help from a friend for those doozies.

Definitely time to find, or exercise, your true voice, Jennifer! Let it out, let yourself roar! Your sister is way out of line, and if it were me I would be mad enough to do some real confronting. Of course, she is coming from "good intentions"- on the surface. Underneath, don't be fooled, that's not clean at all. And, if amongst it all you see that maybe you haven't been much fun, and you wish you could be a bit lighter with your kids or whatever....thats ok too, it doesn't make your sister right in what she has done, it just means there is a grain of truth, and you can own that, and still she was way out of line. Not that life is all fun, and I am not quite sure what is fun about final year of school anywhere, so I wouldn't make "fun" your ideal! But maybe you see some way you could change in a healthy way for everyone- or maybe you just need to accept yourself for being real and down to earth and healthy in that, rather than superficially "together" and "fun". ugh, I hate people like that anyway. Give me real and honest and straight any day. I am mad for you! It reminds me why I am actually glad we are distant- physically and/or emotionally- from all relatives on both sides. We like to parent our way, with no interference.

Yes, but that's obviously not you. You can do it. I originally homeschooled because of the learning challenges of my younger child- but the older, who was thriving in school, came home too because I didn't want to have one in school and one at home. I made it work for my dd, made sure she had a good social life and friends. Your dd is only 4. At some point in the next few years you may have to reign her in for some seat work, but I wouldnt worry about that yet. Just enjoy her. Many homeschoolers don't have particularly supportive spouses. Its a challenge. Mine was dubious and gave me a 6 month trial for my son- and within 3 months had insisted we take our dd out of school too! I fed him lots of statistics and articles on the benefits of homeschooling, which convinced him I wasn't just completely looney, altohugh he sitll thought I was pretty out there! But, he came around. You can do it.

Some differences I have noticed: TWTM uses many curriculum and Usborne type books, as well as Living Books. CM uses Living books almost exclusively, except for maths and highschool science, and a few other bits and pieces like a writing curriculum or guide in highschool. Both use narration, but CM uses it exclusively (although the definition on narration seems much broader than TWTM, if you look at what kids actually did in CM schools) and TWTM uses (its narrower version of) narration as one of many techniques. CM uses narration, including an emphasis on oral narration, all the way through school, wheras TWTM only advocates oral narration up until the point the child can write their own. TWTM uses the concept of the Trivium- Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric stages of development- wheras that concept doesn't come through in CM's writings, although her methods actually reflect it to some degree- just not excplicitly. TWTM's schedules make for a longer day, CM specifically advocates a school day that finishes by early afternoon, even in later years, leaving time for outdoor activities and practical handcrafts and free time in the afternoons. For all of TWTM's breadth, CM has more subjects, although many of them are very short- like including Folksongs. I believe both are equally rigorous however the shorter hours of CM allows more time for extra curricula activities and free time.

OK, for example this year we are doing Ancients, 2nd time around (1st time was with SOTW, this time I am doing it differently and using Ambleside for the 2nd half). First term, the theme was pre-history, early man and early civilizations. 2nd term was Egypt, and Ancient Religions- Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism etc. 3rd term was Ancient Greece and 4th term, which we are in now, is Ancient Rome. Most of our reading (history and literature) is focused around the theme of the term- I will try and start and finish books related to the theme within the term- so that involves breaking each book down into 10 weeks. It just gives each term a fresh feeling- but our year is divided nicely into four 10 week terms with 2 weeks holiday in between except for the summer holidays (at Christmas, here) , so it is quite suitable for dividing up this way.

There is some sort of mysterious connection between children and their mother, and it seems the more you try to defend against them, take space, shut them out- the more clingy and needy they become. I read about that years ago and it made sense to me, and I stopped trying to build walls against them so much- and just took myself away- even locked myself in a room if necessary. In a way, children need to feel you are always "there" but that doesnt mean you always need to "be there" physically. When you withdraw emotionally, they feel it instinctively. So best to make really sure you are taking care of your own needs, and nourishing yourself, so that you can stay emotionally open when you are with them. Well, thats how I see it and how I try to live. To recharge, I sing, I knit, I watch TV, I go for walks in nature, I let the kids play computer games or watch TV, I go shopping alone, I read, I sit at the computer, I chat with friends, I meditate. My husband has always been pretty clear with the kids that there are times I am his and his alone, and they need to leave us alone. And other times he keeps them away from me for my sake, to have some space. Perhaps you could ask your husband to help you get some space, because you are really feeling a need for it. Meanwhile, allow yourself to dream- if there were no restrictions, what would you like to do, be, achieve, make, or play? Do you crave friends, activities, quiet time alone, more sleep? I reckon you will find there is something, and perhaps you just haven't given yourself permission to have it, or move toward it.

The problem is, you are allowing him to sit there being defiant for a total of 7 hours- that's more likely to feed stubborness than quell it. And, you are not connecting with your child in a healthy way- all that time, you are not cuddling, praising or visibly loving him- you are his adversary- way,way too long a time for a discipline issue for a 6yo (or any children, except for perhaps rare cases, IMO). Perhaps you are going from one extreme to the other? A baby is of course a significant part of the equation- for you, and for the other children. Compassion is needed all round. I agree with the others who said you need to realise what behaviours are normal at what age- your son is not unusual or way off. He just needs some consistent and loving boundaries. I believe your relationship with your son will suffer if you treat him like that- his heart will harden against you. I have always felt immediate consequences are best, and then over with. I also wouldn't use writing as a punishment for a boy, especially. When I realise I have been inconsistent it is very easy for me to then crack down really heavily, but then I look at my beautiful children and realise it wasn't just their fault I let things go too far, it was also mine for my inconsistent parenting- and it's not fair to take all of that out on them. Balance is called for and it has to start with me. I try to keep my relationship with them foremost, and not alienate them with extreme punishments/ disciplines- the aim is to get the behaviour to change, surely, not to punish for it's own sake. If the behaviour hasn't changed in 7 hours- well, I don't think your approach is working. Perhaps ask your husband what he suggests- I find mine is always willing to give me advice, and sometimes its really worth listening to, because he is one step removed from the situation :)

Did you mean along the lines of Latin Prep? Yes, it is. And we do both together. However, we have been doing Latin for several years so it is more embedded than French for my kids. I don't think I would start both at the same time, from scratch.

In the past, yes I have broken it down to more detailed schedules, but this year...I have "term" schedules, because I like to jazz up each term, start new books etc and give each term it's own theme- and then, the only other thing I seem to need is a Weekly timetable sort of thingy, so we know what we are doing each day of the week, in general (eg maths daily, this book Tuesday, that book Thursday, Science Friday etc). Then each week I might glance at the schedule and sometimes need to photocopy something, or plan a creative writing assignment, or look over something, but most things are just pick up and go so there is minimal planning that is needed anymre each week or day- its all done at the term level.

I have always done my own thing, and sometimes I do a lot of planning- because I enjoy planning- but on our actual school days, it is usually just do the next thing. I prefer to do my own thing because I can follow our passions, I can adapt a program to my kids' individual temperaments and abilities, and I get to be involved in a way I really enjoy- choosing the literature, the historical fiction, following a 4 year history cycle. I wonder if you have to be kind of quirky to really enjoy designing your kids' educational program- most people I know IRL, even homeschoolers, don't do it and don't get the buzz out of it that I do. I cant imagine doing it any other way...but, most people cant imagine doing it the way I do it.

Hi momof7, We have done LLfromLOTR! Its wonderful, isn't it? The thing is, we did it mostly orally together, partly because the kids were only 11 and 13, so I quite likely accepted a whole range of answers from the kids and just shared the one I felt was more accurate (or the one from the answers). I am not sure how much it helped with this issue- possibly it did but I didn't notice at the time because I wasn't really aware it was an issue then. The thing is we do a lot orally, lots of discussions (my two kids are close in age) and I think that that hasn't helped for this issue, although it allows us to cover a lot more work- this child probably needs to learn to write down her answers in sentence form and check back to the question, see if she has answered it. Thanks for the suggestion though...and, I am glad you enjoy LLfromLOTR too!

NAN, THANKYOU SO MUCH! I feel very encouraged by your post, I really do, thankyou for taking the time to write it. I feel you understand completely where I am coming from. You are right- she doesn't need help with comprehension, she needs help with how to answer stupid comprehension questions that are often ambiguous, unclear, and treat the child as if they are a moron! I can see what you mean by all the cultural assumptions, and why also I find it strange that this bright child cannot answer them- I was brought up on them and learned how to answer them. I learned to please the teacher, learned what they wanted so I could give it to them. My kids are more straight than that! They DO argue with the answers, they do find oblique answers that could be correct. Thats a good thing, surely? :) OK, so I will probably have to give her more practice in answering them, but it's ok, because I have a better idea now of what to actually focus on so I think I can integrate it more into what we are already doing rather than having to take up some new curricula. I do outsource for this child a fair bit, and will continue to- so I will look out for something that will help her in this area over the next couple of years, where I can have someone else give her the feedback. It seems important for this child. Thanks again!

My dd14 has just finished two state tests for Science and Social Studies. These are voluntary tests on our part, done at home, but I will send them in for grading. What I notice is that this very bright student is not so good at comprehension questions, as in, when given a snippet of information, and being asked a specific question- she is not so good at finding the specific answer and putting it in words. She presumes too much, knowing the examiner already knows the darn answer, and she isn't explicit enough. Or, she misses the point of the question, and answers something vaguely related but not quite accurate. She has no enthusiasm for these things, which doesn't help. I have noticed this tendency before, but she is excellent at oral narrations, at written reports and narrations, at outlining and finding the main point in a narrative. We have specifically avoided "comprehension questions" due to the nature of them- usually they are in the context of taking a literature passage out of context and asking tricky questions about it. We'd rather read the whole book and discuss it, perhaps write about it, outline it, whatever. I guess I presumed the ability to discuss, to write about, general themes, or recall information, or have an opinion, or find the main point, all of which she can do quite well- would mean a child would naturally be able to answer those comprehension questions that schools rely so much on, pretty well. But, apparently not. She would probably pass, but they certainly don't bring out the best in her. What would you do? I am reluctant to put aside, or add to, our schedule which includes a lot of reading, to focus on this issue, but I am wondering if I am letting her down by not teaching her to do what schools do. Any thoughts?

We have always done history like you are saying, and now we are doing Ambleside, and it's like that. We read a spine, one or two other books, do some maps, outlines, oral narrations and writing assignments- varied. We discuss. LCC inspired me to keep my priorities clear and simple and gave me some good ideas. I don't want to be a slave to anyone else's curriculum or structure- I take what works and ditch the rest. I make everything my own. I have never used TOG- looks overwhelming to me, but then so does having 10 kids, :) so maybe it's a solution to being able to meet everyone's needs. Why don't you just tweak it and do it lightly and don't feel guilty?

ummm, I think I remember SWB saying there are 5000 people here? (registered at least, probably not all regulars). How are you going to remember us all :) I will just say hi- I am in Australia, I have two kids, but you can get that from below my name. Welcome.

Yes. When I am not getting along with my spouse for whatever reason, I get an amazing amount of housework done. I am not sure if its a general feeling of unease or just specific to marital issues :)

Flops: Writing Stands, Wordsmith and Wordsmith Craftsman. I think Write With the Best will be a flop because I just bought it and I don't want to use it! I like it, but I cant make it work right now. Successes- success being programs that I feel we have got a LOT out of- Classical Writing Aesop and Homer, Bravewriter, and a class with a local teacher. Also, we did the Medieval Legends Imitations in Writing book and I feel that was a good experience. Another success- Queen's Language Lessons for Highschool- it is basically a creative writing course for older kids, and my dd14 is loving it and feels she is getting a lot out of it. We also used Wordsmith Apprentice- about half the book. I didn't feel my son was getting much out of it. We used Rod and Staff for one year and we probably did get a lot out of that. We have used most of Sentence Composing and I am not sure that he got much out of it, truthfully, despite the raves here. Copywork, dictaton and Narrations, as well as just me making up writing assignments (getting inspiration from online, from LLfromLOTR, and writing programs) have been a mainstay and we are continuing with them. I have just enrolled DD14 in home2teach.com, an online writing class- she is doing the 6 week paragraph class- and already she is getting a lot out of it, and so I am having ds12 do it all too, just without sending his in. I want dd to get some inspiration and feedback from someone other than me- she is a good writer. Although we have had some flops, I dont feel that just because we moved on from Classical Writing or Bravewriter, that the experiences weren't worthwhile. I feel they were very worthwhile and I would highly recommend both programs. Classical Writing became too time consuming for me, and teacher intensive- I kept getting burned out- and it was just getting worse, not better. In a way, i feel I am still doing Bravewriter because Julie's whole approach is that we can teach our children writing, can encourage them, so that they blossom, without being rigid about writing curriculum- and I feel I took her at her word, gained some insight, and now am happy doing my own thing, pulling in help when needed, but not needing someone else's weekly structure all the time.

The way we have handled it is not so punitive either. ADHD kids dont always have an inbuilt "morality" and I have a step dd like that. We treat it very seriously and basically all life stops until it is dealt with. But the outcome we want is confession- we instinctively feel that punishment without confession and some sort of remorse is pointless. We sit the child on the couch and life stops until they confess. We dont come across as angry or punitive- we just want the child to realise we know, and they are not going to get away with it. Our son went through a few episodes of this and he has always come to the point of confession- but we never gave him any alternative, either. Once the confession is there, we often ask him what a good consequence would be- once it was stealing money- he had to give it back and then pay extra. In the case of your dd, I would get the confession and remorse way before forcing the child to march down to the nail salon- that would be a natural consequence, after admitting to the crime, to go and apologise (and I wouldn't necessarily choose that consequence, but it one possible one). I think the point for me would be building and maintaining my connection with my child, rather than punitive- because punishment can make a child even more alienated from the parent- the child is already somehow not close enough to the parent to be honest, and some kids are just like that- I would work on that rather than punishment. For a child who cant feel remorse, its difficult, but possible. Truly, my step dd is amazing in her ability to lie, and she was allowed to get away with it because her mother didnt want to punish her when she wasnt sure. I think you can be pretty sure in your case.

Count me in the meanie club- we work through colds too. Although, I might take it a bit easier than normal and skip some of their normal work- I would try and do our together work no matter what.

I have thought about it but I don't think a week is actually long enough to establish the habit. I like the Flylady system of a habit a month though- this month it is staying on top of the washing, and its easy to focus on it for myself, but also bring the kids into it as well. Other habits just need working on until they stick.

Bedtime is 8pm for both (ages 12 and 14). Yes, its early, but they read for an hour or so, and they need to be up by 7am- and they both need the 10 hours sleep.

I have moderate scoliosis but I have never had any treatment other than chiro treatment- and self treatment, which for me has always been Yoga in order to keep my spine supple and healthy as i can. if I dont do my Yoga, i get stiff and then problems start to happen- pain. The chiros can't actually fix scoliosis, but its not necessary to always fix it. I personally wouldnt have surgery or have my kids have it unless it was pretty bad.

I am usually up early, but at this time of year (winter here) and am lingering in y PJs until 8am or so. But I like to be dressed for when school starts at 8.30. I find PJs dont put me in such a good frame of mind for the day- and I find the same with the kids, too, so I insist we are all dressed for schooltime unless someone is sick.

After reading many posts on the topic at the AO Yahoo group- I think it depends on what type of books he is used to reading. Being a good reader is different from being accustomed to reading books like the Swiss Family Robinson or other Classics. People on the lists usually seem to recommend several years younger than grade level, but I think it really depends on the child. My ds12 is dyslexic and not an advanced student by any means- probably behind in maths and writing- yet he handles Year 6 very well because he is a good reader and is used to Classics. It also depends on how much you want him to do independently. If you are prepared to still read aloud a fair bit, he could probably handle a higher level than if you have lots of other children and don't have much time to read with him. For me (I began Ambleside a few months ago) where I was in the history cycle helped me decide- we had finished 4 years of SOTW and I was looking for how to cover the next 4 years. We just happened to fit into Ambleside/ HEO at the Ancients level, Year 6- perfect for us.

I like to read aloud but I bought the CDs one year after reading so many people rave about them. My kids complained bitterly and wanted me to read aloud instead, so I just sold the CDs. My kids were never the type who would happily listen to the CDs while playing Lego. They actually don't like any audio books, even though they like me reading aloud. Dont feel you are cheating! Certainly not if you are tired from all your other read alouds!