Hi Susan, In the second edition, she has reorganized . . . it will now automatically print with the sections together. There are often short exercises on the lesson pages, so other than history pages, there is little chance to save by not printing (and many history pages also have questions) other than by doing the worksheets on an ipad directly, using Notability, an option not everyone enjoys. You can print in fast draft mode, or just B&W as another poster has already pointed out, to save some money on toner or ink.

We LOVED NOEO for chemistry. The chem program has tons of experimentation, hands-on stuff. Most of the labs are in the books you buy. I did level 1 with my 2nd grader and level 2 with my 4th grader, who was more independent. As it turned out, the 2nd grader "helped" the 4th grader with most of his labs as well :) The two don't line up perfectly, but I'm not one to fret about that too much. We loved how the notebooking sheets are so customizable-- there are sheets for just drawing to just taking real notes to everything in between for both labs and the reading. You can also customize the program to go either twice or four times per week (or five times per week if you really want to geek out on labs). I threw in a few extra labs-- We love the Science Wiz kits, and there are several chemistry kits-- several experiments with all you need included for $20. Have fun! Mr. Q is also fun, but you MUST get the parent guide-- a lot of the content is actually there, rather than in the kids' book.

DH is a math professor, so I asked his advice. His recommendation was Linear algebra before diffeq's. He says if she goes to engineering she will eventually take both anyway, but he felt linear algebra first was the way he would advise.

That reminds me of my mother's experience teaching in the mid '50's. The daughter of a Bell Labs engineer, she began teaching her 5th graders experimental sciences. The principal called her down to the office and demanded, "If you teach them science in the 5th grade, WHAT will they learn in high school?" Then Sputnik happened (grin).

Hi all, I just received a notice by email, and found my way to the following page. The upshot is that The Big Book of Lively Latin, 2nd Edition has been released! It has been reorganized for double-sided printing (still permitting us to divide the book into sections if we wish as before-- like I did in my prior post here on WTM, though I have no affiliation with the company). She added more content to both books. Best of all, current owners do not need to pay to get the new edition! Also, she is running a sale (substantial) through the end of December, with a pretty big percentage off. The entire website with the supplementary material has also been revamped. Woohoo! I see what also looks like a try before you buy edition on the website. http://livelylatin.com/doubledown/

If she has mastered all of her multiplication and division facts (this presumes mastering addition and subtraction as well) then she is ready for Fractions. For most kids, this is also around 4th or 5th grade or around 10 years old-- but of course that is approximate-- all kids are different! Another consideration is that from Fractions on up, the books are designed to be used independently (other than grading the bridges). This means enough maturity to not just blast through really fast, but starting to learn to read for content, which means able to absorb some lessons about slowing down even when the book is "fun" to pay attention to the math that is in there, or risk not getting as much out of it as possible. So there's a maturity factor too. If she's not there yet, there is also now an "intermediate" series, between elementary and Fractions-- I think they're Liver, Mineshaft, and Kidneys, to bridge that time. These are good books for the kiddo to learn to use to slow it down, even if they feel they "already know" the material (there is so much in Fred that no, they don't know everything in there, and that is a sign she is not reading carefully enough-- think about it, way back in Apples he is introducing set theory and introductory concepts in algebra . . . by the time she gets to Liver, there will be something in there to learn, even if that is your starting point). All kids are different, and there is no "perfect pace" that holds true for everyone-- but if a kid rips through the book in a week and announces they learned nothing, that's a good sign they read it too fast :) Hope that helps-- if she's mastered her facts and is ready to start learning on her own, she is ready for Fractions. If she needs more time on her facts, or more time to learn to be independent, then maybe start the intermediate series if you don't want to invest in the elementary series-- it's only 3 books, which is much less of a commitment. Jen

Assuming you are speaking specifically of Algebra I, here is one that falls into the budget range: http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Algebra-Edition-John-Tobey/dp/0321573757/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1385431050&sr=8-4&keywords=tobey+and+slater+algebra I see the used copies start at 71 cents right now! There are more up to date editions, but this is already a 7th edition. There isn't anything all that revolutionary in the field of algebra I that will require a newer edition and more money, so you're safe with the older edition, and by the 7th edition, most of the typos have been caught. Here is the ISBN: 978-0321573759

This entry: The not at all uncommon scenario when the "absolutely perfect" curriculum choice fails, spectacularly. http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/2013/11/know-when-to-foldem.html

I love Hands on Equations, and do recommend it. It does have its limitations as far as how far into algebra it will take you though. For a book series that I have found provides extremely clear writing, clear examples, and problems that build from easy to difficult sequentially, followed by mini "How are you doing?" quizzes and chapter tests right in book, you can buy, very very cheaply by going back an edition or two, Tobey and Slater on Amazon. The explanations are written in clear, plain English, and the answers in the back for the tests refer you back to the section number from which each problem skill is referenced, in case you need to go back and review anything. I often recommend this book/series to anybody who is concerned about how to teach math, or wishes a clear presentation accessible to the student, or is seeking a very affordable supplement (though it is a standalone textbook as well, if not as rigorous, perhaps as Dolciani-- but it will get the job done).

From Fractions on upward, DS12 needed no supplementation for Life of Fred. It had plenty of practice for him. It depends on your kid.

Check out: Science Wiz kits (for Physics, there are inventions, Physics, Magnetism, and Light, maybe more, several experiments in each kit with everything you need included at $20 or less per kit; they are quite nice) K'Nex Education Kits: Gears and Levers, Simple Machines, and similar: about $34 each. Again hands on, well executed, and like Science Wiz above, the included book explains what is going on. Book: Physics with Toys. First edition relies mostly on generic toys many people own. Second edition uses K'Nex kits for most exercises. OR For a radical departure, listen (in a sneaky way) to your kid. Combine physics and biology. Do anatomy. Learn that muscles only pull, they never "push," but they must work in pairs-- cut up a chicken wing from the grocery store. Remove the skin, carefully, with a pair of scissors (bleach it first if you are worried about bugs, and do work with gloves). You should see a pair of muscles, one above and one below going from shoulder to elbow, and another pair from elbow to wing tip. Hold the shoulder in place, and tug on one of the upper and lower muscles-- watch the wing unfurl. Tug the opposing muscle and watch the wing retract. See, muscles only pull, they never "push." Now, what is the function of that skeleton? What else supports the muscles? DIssect away the muscle tissue carefully until you can see the ligaments and tendons and read up on what their function is. Study the bones. How does the skeleton support the wing and its motion? Hmmm . .. looks kind of like a lever, yes? Now we are getting back around to physics! Why would a bird need it's wing to operate like a lever? What about your own arm, which works a lot like a chicken wing in some ways? What other animals have levers as part of their bodies? Study some gears. Did you know there is a super cool insect that actually has "gears" to help it jump correctly, to time its legs? Sounds like a great (and rewarding) internet search, with a really rewarding video at the end of it. You could both win at the end of this one. Animals and people and plants are loaded with simple machines, the need to overcome static and kinetic friction, use optical properties and sound wavelengths in differing situations (growers can induce plants to turn on and off their flowering cycles by exposing them to a single flash of red or far red light in the night-- why? and what is "red" and "far red" light?) How can birds fly (do not let anybody tell you it is all Bernoulli)? You could have a physics year disguised as a biology year and have a lot of fun with it! Or you could try some of the kits above and have fun building and playing with stuff :)

I personally disliked AoPS's pre-Algebra book; I have liked at least one of their upper level books, so I obviously have not ruled out the series, but I really felt like they worked too hard to make a pretty simple subject far harder than was justified. My math professor husband looked through it and felt the same way. If a kid doesn't enjoy the challenge of it, I wouldn't make them do it. Life of Fred pre-Algebra is hits some good notes, but doing it well will also pose some challenges here and there, but you said in a later post that she enjoys it; that may be enough of a carrot. My older son has used Fred as his sole curriculum from Fractions through Beginning Algebra and we are pleased with the results. We are changing things up this year for geometry/algebra II just to expose him to other things, but he'll go back to Fred. (for geometry, we're actually using AoPS). My younger, who only just turned 10, has been Singapore Primary Math since level 2. After level 5B, we bumped him up to Singapore Discovering Math 7. He is supplementing with Fred because he really loves it, but Singapore has just be such a great fit for him, we see no reason to change at this point. He's the kind of kid who enjoys playing with Dragonbox and Hands on Equations when he gets the chance. If Singapore math has been working for your daughter, is there a reason why you want to leave Singapore behind and move to something else? I am more impressed by this next level up the more we use it, and the more I appreciate the scaffolding provided by the Primary math series. His Fred training is really fitting in nicely as well; they make a great combo :) I have to admit, I keep hearing about this Tablet Class and I get curious about it, but I would have to have a really excellent reason to drop Singapore at this point. My curiosity is always piqued when I hear that a kid has excelled in PM, and the parent isn't sure what to do, but they don't list DM as one of the options they are considering! I truly am curious!

I never stopped using the hands on stuff, all the way through 5B! I will add this-- the geometry as you roll into 5B is nothing shy of utterly brilliant, so stick with it; it's all worth it in the end ;). I'd let her roll with the younger stuff too if she likes doing it-- great reinforcement :). Too many kids race ahead without being rock solid on the stuff underneath. I know it sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, but the more you tell me, the more I know about your situation :). In the end you just do what feels right for her-- if she needs to leap forward later, she will find a way to tell you ( whether explicitly, or by starting to get everything she knows inexplicably wrong- boredom).

Curious, if you like Singapore, is there a reason why you don't plan to continue into the upper levels of Singapore? We are going there, and they seem pretty brilliant (DS10 is in DM7 now). I know they have at least up through trig. I would just get the 3B textbook and workbook; that is about $20? If you don't write in them you can resell online, at least the textbook. I would not rely upon the IP book for the "teaching" if you feel she needs the information from the ground up; the teaching is really in the texbook; the other books are for extension and practice only (workbook practices; IP extends for those who are hungry for it). Or you could try Khan Academy for just those topics. I can't imagine anything getting completely dropped after 3B that would be super important-- to my memory, nothing is really completely dropped after 3B, just incorporated into the rest of the books in the problems. (after all, how many things do you remember if you haven't seen them since 3rd grade? If it's foundational to mathematics, they'll keep hitting it. If it isn't, then it isn't actually a "hole"). In your shoes, if she passed 4A and 4B, but did not pass 3B, I'd be tempted to go to 5A, and supplement with Fred or Khan Academy.

For me, it was a hill to die on-- over and over and over. It is absolutely age-inappropriate to use recess removal as a punishment, in my book. For one thing, the punishment has nothing to do with the "crime." For another, for those who say that ten minutes is not very long-- 10 minutes out of thirty is MORE than 1/3 of recess time; most of the time, the kids have to start lining up to come in well before that thirty minutes is over so that they are back inside at the end of thirty minutes-- it is more like missing half of recess-- that is half of your free wiggle time. At five years old, ten minutes is a VERY long time (most people advocate 1 minute of time out per year of age; this would be double that-- and to a five year old, ten minutes is just forever) and we are talking, in practical terms, about half of their play time. Second, we don't know here whether we are looking at full or half day Kindergarten, but as most K's are now moving toward full-day, which is already tremendously long for a 5YO, losing a moment of that recess time is unforgivable. In addition to just wiggles and stress relief, a tremendous amount of learning happens on that playground; 5 year olds are still learning most efficiently through play! How does it serve the child to stifle their learning, exactly? It does not. Harming the child (and stifling his learning by applying an inappropriate punishment that does not relate to the action you wish to address does harm) accomplishes nothing positive. My kids attended two different public schools: In one, the principal was adamant: zero recess time was ever lost for any child through sixth grade, unless steps had been taken first, up through parent conferences, with no resolution to the problem, AND the team agreed that losing recess time would somehow be effective in deterring future problems-- that it somehow helped address the specific problem. This was a CITY school, and I have to say-- this school had fewer behavior problems than any elementary school I have ever seen. Few kids ever even made a trip to the principal's office (probably for starters, because they were not going crazy from being kept inside all the time, and secondly, because the teachers had brainstormed together ways to identify means of diverting kids in advance before behavior got out of control, or how to address it in ways that actually relate to the real problem instead of applying unrelated consequences like removal of recess). In the other school, there was no creativity or energy applied to problem solving or intervening in problems before they happened. This other school my kids attended "had every advantage," it was a wealthy suburban school with smaller class sizes, and a big banner across the front proclaiming in Orwellian fashion, "We are a superior school!" (because of test results on NCLB). For every single infraction, real or imagined, kids were instantly kept indoors from recess. Sometimes entire classrooms stayed in for an entire recess because of the actions of a single kid. Sometimes they cancelled recess just because of rain-- the previous day. Or threat of snow. The kids were going NUTS. I would see a line of kids going out the door and into the hallway, waiting to see the principal-- yet the school was asking for donations to have enough stuff to give away for its "Positive Behaviour Support" program :P The school spent more time on discipline than on teaching. It may seem like there was more wrong with the second school than just recess, but in discussing the situation with the principal at the first school, he really said that yes, the difference did start with taking a stand on telling the teachers that under absolutely zero circumstances were they to refuse a child recess. At that point, he said, they put their heads together and figured out the rest-- first, that punishments should fit the situation, which helped. Then, a few took classes on how to recognize behavior before it started (and these were elementary classes with 33 and up kids in the second grade, city school, 7 different home languages-- and the teachers did not bother making excuses about why this would be too hard; they just DID it) and intervene with the kid before he could actually get into trouble. The result was a school where most of the day was ultimately spent on learning rather than discipline, and the kids all got their play time as a priority. So yes, I would absolutely make it an issue. I would recall to anybody involved to remember that a kindergartener in particular sees 10 minutes very differently from how an adult sees it. I would ask why on EARTH a Kindergartener even has homework?????? More disruption of playtime? I would press the principal on the issue, and ask how losing recess relates to homework in the mind of a 5 year old, or even an 8 year old. I would ask, given what is known about cognitive science, how anybody can justify removing recess time from a child. I asked those questions again and again and again. I refused to go away. I let my kids know that while they had to do as the teachers asked, I was fighting for them in their corner, because they were NOT bad, and did not deserve to be treated like that (particularly in cases where entire classes were forced to stay inside because one kid misbehaved. That is just wrong) and that I expected their teachers to treat THEM with respect too! There is no part of removing a child's recess time that is age appropriate. Anybody who is teaching ought to know better.

My older DS used Life of Fred exclusively from Fractions through Beginning Algebra (we are switching it up just for this year-- I am a firm believer kids need to be exposed to more than one author in the upper grades, because they can become too accustomed to "one style" of problem writing, even when the program is excellent). This means that younger brother definitely wants to keep up with Fred as he has finished the Singapore Primary Math series and has begun Discovering Math series (I think the name switches to Dimensions Math at level 8?). So we will continue to let him supplement with Fred, because he wants to! However, I see definite benefits and bleed through into both his enthusiasm for math and how he applies it. In Singapore, in a recent chapter, he encountered a problem that had him learn and manipulate the relationship between degrees Celsius and degrees Fahrenheit: C = 5/9(F - 32). He did fine on the questions relating to this and moved on. The next day, my little daydreamer piped up from the back seat of the car, out of the blue: "So Mom, if instead of knowing F, I knew C, then I would need to use F = (9/5)C + 32, because that would be the inverse function." Yes, he said that (he just turned 10) right down to inverse function; and that part is pure Life of Fred; he hasn't really done that in Singapore that I recall-- however, in Fred, he has worked extensively with functions, domains, and codomains. Fred also daydreams about math and sits around and plays with it in his head, which encourages my son to do so as well. We are also using Fred Physics as part of our Physics year. It is loaded with hands-on experiments as well as math, and is great reinforcement for his math lessons. We also do a chapter from Penrose the Mathematical Cat about every other week, just to inject more playfulness into math, since we work pretty hard. It's fun to take time out to build a tetra-hexa-flexagon and do other fun stuff :).

DS12 used LOF Beginning algebra and did very well with it. We own the rest of the series (except geometry, for some reason) and I have looked through them, and I love the detail of the math instruction in them, as does DH (who is a math professor, btw). For this year, I did switch gears, just because DS has been using Fred alone since the Fractions book, and I wanted him to experience a different POV for a short time-- I wanted him exposed to problems written by more than one author. So this year we are monstering together algebra II and geometry, using Tobey & Slater (algebra II) and Geometry (AoPS-- an experiment, since I loathed the AoPS prealgebra book and tossed it-- however, I really like the geometry text quite a bit). He will go back and do LoF Algebra 2 on his own starting in January, as that really is his main math program-- I do just think it is important for kids to periodically see problems written by other authors, no matter how good their current math program might be. The depth of understanding required to move forward in Fred is fantastic, when the student takes his time to digest the information. This is really good for math-capable students and gifted & talented students in particular, who are often accustomed to sailing through things without applying a lot of thought-- in Fred, doing so can cause one to miss an awful lot of the instruction present in the book, and then trouble starts! Using Fred in a careful manner teaches the student how to slow down and think in order to really succeed, which is an amazing life skill for these students for later, for when the work gets harder, whether that is in college, grad school, or whenever; if you hit that wall only when the work becomes truly difficult, life can become very hard very fast. Fred requires the student to really pay attention; the information is all there, and it teaches the students the "why" behind the number relationships-- and it also teaches them how to ready carefully and how to study. The problem sets are like the ones they will encounter at a quality university-- shorter, but higher quality, in that instead of plugging in problems just like the examples, they will need to apply what they have learned in order to succeed. That is what we love about Fred. I see that recently the Beginning Algebra set was reorganized; instead of a book and the Home Companion, these two books have been merged into one single volume, providing more problems in the actual algebra book, along with additional teaching and pacing. There is still the Zillions of Problems book by the same author (or Khan Academy, which is not related, but is free) for those who need more repetition. We've been very happy with Fred. Regarding the Economics book: Yeah, his opinions on Economics are a bit out there. However, they provided great fodder for discussion for us, and the PreA topics in the book were rock solid. In fact, the Economics discussions we had were apparently really inspiring. My 12YO has, for a year now, been watching the stock markets, developed opinions on whether Greece should reintroduce the Drachma and ditch the Euro, China's influence in the US, and different scenarios that could happen depending upon how China's economy goes, and so on. In other words, although his opinions do not at all mirror Stan Schmidt's, our son has become an economics junkie. We set him up with a Flipboard account just so he could get news articles about what is going on in the world on his ipad without random articles that would be uninteresting to him (or unhelpful). Who would have figured on that one? I hated economics as a high school senior. My kiddo halfway through logic stage is hooked on it. Without LOF PreA, would we have ever have given him enough exposure to it to get that connection? We disagreed with it. Big deal. He didn't try to tell our kid to eat babies or anything. And it did teach him excellent mathematics :)

Memrise is great too.

Cross-curricular opportunity anybody? I thought this one was super cool. In this little short article-let (the video includes microscopy of the actual gears and the insect) Scientific American discusses an article in the journal Science where researchers have discovered an insect which, due to the unusual placement of its legs, uses actual biological gears to keep its jump coordinated correctly. The video is just amazing. http://www.scientificamerican.com/video.cfm?id=working-gears-evolved-in-plant-hopp2013-09-12

Hi all, As a former research scientist and microscopist, this microscope is my hands-down favorite for teaching my kids microscopy through at logic stage, and it will remain my favorite for field work for as long as they remain at home, so I was really excited when I got The Happy Scientist's newsletter today with a note that Robert Krampf had negotiated a 25% discount off of not only the microscopes (and different lens packages with the scopes) but all the accessories, including dropper pipettes, petri dishes, slides, etc, through Homeschool Buyer's Coop! Yahoo! He has a video on HSBC explaining what he likes about the Brock. =============announcement from The Happy Scientist's newsletter======== Discount on Brock Magiscope If you are in the market for a microscope, I have worked out a 25% discount on the Brock Magiscope, the field microscope I use in the microscope videos. The Brock is my favorite microscope, sturdy enough to carry into the field, but with optics that are on par with much more expensive microscopes. This is the microscope that you see in many science centers and nature museums. They like it because it is very simple to use and stands up to a lot of wear and tear. You will find the deal here: https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/brock-magiscope/?source=THS-Brock

I'm not sure why I'm bother to reply to this, other than this argument has me kind of gobsmacked . . . since when does everyone enter school at exactly the same age? My son went to an accredited Kindergarten program, and was admitted at age 4.5. He most certainly was a kindergartener, not a preK student. It was unusual, but the consensus was that he was so far advanced that he would have wilted and mentally died in a preK program that year-- in fact, he was at the top of his class and kind of bored even where he was at that. Since when is there some kind of "universal code of homeschooling" that dictates where everyone is? I never seem to have gotten that memo. This seems like it's turning into a pretty silly argument! Our family personally says there is no such thing as a grade level in homeschooling. We register with our state as "ungraded" and will simply graduate our kids when they are ready, and prepare the high school transcript to cover the previous four years of school, whenever that happens to land. As much as I believe that grade levels are completely irrelevant to the homeschool world no matter how your state requires you to fill out a form or check off a box, I don't, however think all homeschoolers must think the same way we do. Some people derive comfort with the familiarity of the concept of grade levels, and I would not be the one to deprive them of that sense of comfort. I'm not the grade leveling police nor the homeschooling police, and I don't believe you are, either!

I'm a lone voice here, I guess. DS10 is anything but a natural speller, and Spelling Workout is awesome for him. It does a great job of explaining the spelling rules, and it groups the spelling words together according to the spelling rules so that he can see the patterns and really learn them. It is *really* key to read and learn the rule presented at the start of each lesson before starting in on the lists. He has memory/ordering issues, and the review built into Spelling Workout really helps with retention for him, too. The review units include both commonly difficult words, plus places for you to customize the review units with words he might have struggled with. He's not generally a workbook guy; he hates writing and we don't use a lot of workbooky stuff, but Spelling Workout really hits the spelling rules very well, teaches my absolutely not natural speller how to spell, and definitely has good qualities for retention. It's the one subject where he actually does require review and help, and SWO has made a huge difference in his abilities over time. It's very well organized and the groupings of the words just make sense in terms of generalizing outward to other words that aren't on the list but are spelled according to the same rules. I've always been puzzled by the lack of love for SWO on these boards-- it's logical, it generalizes to help them spell words not on the lists but similar to the lists; it includes and explains the general spelling rules, it includes usage, so they have to learn what the words mean as well as how to spell them, and it includes regular review to make sure they are retaining what they have learned-- just add their trouble words in the blanks provided in each review unit, so that the reviews are customized for your child. It works great here, and definitely not for a natural speller! My older kiddo, the natural speller, moved on to vocabulary instead-- why make a natural speller study spelling? That would be a waste of time!

I don't consider preK to be real school either, since you asked. There are Headstart programs for kids who have quite literally never held a crayon before in their own homes, nor seen a book, let alone had the socialization taught at home to learn not to interrupt, or to sit still for twenty minutes at a time. Once upon a time, these kids could have caught up in kindergarten, but now there has been this weird and IMAO (in my arrogant opinion, because I don't even entertain the notion of eing wrong here) harmful trend of full-day kindergarten everywhere and pushing first grade skills into kindergarten, so it is becoming more needful to ensure those kids have the basics down before kindergarten starts. There is an abundance of preK around-- so much so that as many here have noted, it is sometimes considered weird not to put your kid in preK. They often have elementary licensed teachers and curriculum and even report cards. My kids went through this-- built into their daycare day as I was working FT at the time. To me, it was just daycare, not school. Those kids were too young for school, and I was one of the few who opted my kids into half-day only kindergarten as well (older went back to daycare; younger I picked up at the bus stop). My kids are both on the gifted spectrum and ready to do neat stuff, but still needed to play first and foremost. I oppose universal preK at every opportunity; I hear teachers discussing how it is necessary to take kids away from their parents as early as possible because parents don't know what to do with kids. How sad :(. We are raising a whole generation of kids being raised by people who think parents are bad for them. I am an increasingly irrelevant voice on this side of things, however, as many two-working parent families are grateful when offered preK as a reduced child care expense.

So perfectly said. I mean . . . all but the most incompetent parents, including those whose kids are in daycare because they work, play with their kids at home, teach them their numbers and colors and letters and talk about animals and plants, and throw and catch and laugh and just talk with them and read with them when you are together . . . and this is not with curriculum or workbooks . . . this is just . . . life! It's just what you do with your kids, because you like them! It doesn't matter if your kid will be identified as gifted or special needs or anything else now or in the future. You still talk and play and sing and laugh with them. That isn't homeschooling them; that is raising them. Now that is a completely different question from shutting families out from coops; I would have no problem with a young family who is interested in homeschooling hanging out with a homeschool group, to learn, research, ask questions, and find out what homeschooling is really like. Okay, I don't do any "real" coops with taught classes or anything-- in our Classical schedule, we don't have time for that really-- but I am all about assisting other homeschool families whenever possible. Homeschooling is not for everyone, and there are days when it is hard. Some days it is fantastic. I have no regrets other than not starting sooner than we did. But some days it just SUCKS. Young families should hang out with experienced families and get to know this, and lose the all roses illusion that can happen when they read blogs and books that fail to show the down side of homeschool life. There are days when nobody likes school very much, and young families should see that this happens from time to time, but that this too shall pass, and life will be good again. I say include these families. Answer their questions and let them hang out in the social groups. Let them see you be uncertain. Let them see you have doubts sometimes. Let them see you say, "oops." Let them see you turn it around and succeed anyway. Then when they start and it isn't all a bed of roses every day, they won't get discouraged and quit. But the homeschooling name? I agree it is silly if they don't have a kid at least in Kindergarten. If the kid isn't school age yet, you aren't schooling-- you are really just raising them :). Some people might argue that for homeschoolers that state never changes-- well, okay. We just differ in opinion. It is an opinion poll after all!