... not to hijack; but can I ask how old your little one is? Button wants to do more human body, and Apologia seems so clear and thorough, but I know people have had trouble with that anatomy/physiology for younger elementary ... EDIT: sorry, I didn't see that she was 6 :blush:

:bigear::bigear::bigear: I've been drooling over this myself, but Button's too young by any standards. Well, nearly any: mine, certainly. I saw that someone was reading it successfully (Amazon review) to an 8-year-old, a 10-year-old, and some older siblings; Booklist reviewed it as for grades 5-8 but Library Journal for 8 and up; and one reviewer had a 6th grader stumped by it. So there's clearly some variability. Folks seem to agree that for teaching it you'd want the Teacher's and Student's Guides. I'm curious that the hive thinks ... :bigear:

... natural selection, and the concepts of variation in populations, certainly did explain more about his family's health problems than Christianity did: he and his wife were cousins. The meaning of their suffering, on the other hand, can't be touched by natural selection and is left to theology. Or maybe philosophy for some. : I know the OP was for famous and historical scientists, but here's my favorite modern Christian scientist (an intelligent design fellow; he lectures quite openly on his Christianity and I can't think of anybody who's ostracized him, his science is insightful and impeccable and everyone -- esp. his colleagues, generally atheist -- agrees that he is a very fine person): Bill Newsome. That's the page for his lab; this article might be more interesting for this topic, though it's brief.

Ours was about a week ... + bump :) ps: maybe you can make ice cream twice: once now, and once the Elemental Way!!!

... I'd agree with not fretting 'till 8 or so, no later than 10, esp. if you have no other cause for anxiety. I ran across a website explaining that letter reversals area sign of "immaturity" in the brain ... it actually is that human brains (and primates brains generally) are extremely good at detecting that an object is the same, no matter what position its viewed from. If you hold a pair of scissors so that the handles loops are on the left and the blades point out to the right, and look at them, then flip them 'round so that the blades point leftward and the handles are on your right: are they not the same object? A neat study done sometime in the last year or so (I read the blurb in the Economist) confirmed some predictions that people good at telling "b"s from "d"s (ie, literate people) would have an impairment somewhere else due to having chunks of brain hijacked by the need to prevent letter reversals: there seems to be a small loss in the ability to read subtle expressions on others' faces (in literate compared to non-literate cultures/persons). Today Button and I discussed this when he caught himself flipping his uppercase "p"s. I think it cheered him a bit. A neat story, at least.

... :blushing: Having written that huge post above (just trying to be transparent and helpful, _not_ trying to blab on and on!) I feel sort of morally obligated to share that, having ordered Sonlight B, I was depressed all last night and today until I e-mailed to cancel it. Sigh. It makes perfect sense to my head, but isn't what I want to teach: I didn't realize how bugged I am by the IG, with pages from different books each day and the history encyclopedia spine ... I hope Button and I don't drive each other batty before I have it all figured out. more :blushing: ps: at least all the _other_ stuff, incl. poetry and living memory, will stay the same ...

:):):) us either ... Button is precocious but hated books for years, and is now learning to do arts and crafts with Kumon's little books for 2-year-olds :D

ooh ooh ooh! I know! I know! :lol: Check out this History of Science from Beautiful Feet. Not that you need history; but since you are math and science fiends, I had to mention it. Caveats: haven't used it myself yet (children too young) and BF is seriously Protestant (this particular product has been used successfully by others; folks report that it's one of things worth buying from them even if you are not a total fan). It is literature-centered, though, which may not suit her. If you don't want to throw history out entirely, there's also the Schlessinger Library history videos. We like them here; we get them from A+ online educational video rental, or the library. You could get systematic with them if you wanted. editing to add: have you looked at livingmath.net materials? They have a history-centered approach to math. If y'all love math, you could work it in the other direction ... re-editing to add: reviewing the OP I noticed the Middle Ages thing, which I'd missed last night when foggy ... have you looked at Tapestry of Grace? This is their Year2, which folks say is crowded, so you could stretch the middle ages out; but they are trying to meet the needs of students with many learning styles, and include a lot of hands-on options.

You're right; the first forum had some problems with the Veritas cards, however, which have info. for the elementary years. Faithr has a good point about history ... if you are only schooling for a year at home you especially might not want to push something she detests. Seconding the materamabilis as a great source; and that if you want to get some history into her American may be much more palatable (assuming you're American). With Thanksgiving coming up, she might enjoy some of the Liberty's Kids videos. I think DVDs have much more educational value that SWBauer seems to (though it's entirely possible I'm fooling myself :001_smile:)

bumping, and adding what I've found. FYI I've seriously considered VP myself but it is too far off my beliefs, but it seems like a really outstanding program if the theology fits/doesn't chafe. you could look at this forum which finds VP problematic, but some posters are using it as an opportunity for discussion. and you can scroll down this blog for her take on using Omnibus (which she does). Sort of has me reconsidering the usability of omnibus ... ps: are you looking at grades 2-7, or at Omnibus? Have you gone through their site (which is confusing)? I believe there's a list of "priority resources" or something similar for the most-important stuff, for each history level. Am sure others will know much, much more.

maybe a consoling thought: that wasn't a total loss, then ;). and :grouphug:

:iagree: Button even _likes_ it! Also seconding the vision, maybe neuropsych eval, esp. given the stomach problems. I have noticed an unofficial correlation btw. stomach/food problems and some processing challenges in children; I haven't seen all the pps though and you may have addressed this already. editing after reading pps: So glad that vision explains it all, though I'm sorry that your little one has this extra challenge. We use AAS and I completely agree that it serves a strong phonics function.

I'd add Reading Pathways, which should be fun. Are they reading fluently? -- or will they be? in which case you could let them at it. We -- who are not through Pathways quite yet -- have used as readers some Free and Treadwell Readers (which go through from Primer through Third Reader) and are currently using Eggleston's Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans as our reader. Some like McGuffey's ... and generally, I like the older books for rich language, nice sentence structure, and high interest level. editing to second the All About Spelling as a terrific phonics review.

... we also like GWG here, but haven't started mct yet ...

me too! I wish Singapore was a better fit, 'cause Button's accelerated in math and there is a feeling that Singapore is Just Plain Superior to MathUSee, which we use. And I can see why: much better integration of mental math skills, and building up an intuitive feel for the metric system, and other stuff too. But Button couldn't use it at 5yo and at 6yo just hates it (I tried to include it as variety). I think we're working in a level that's too simple b/c I mucked up their placement tests somehow, and may try with a higher level, but DH (a math-crazy neuroscientist, not a math softie at all) keeps saying, "He's only six! He's fine!" when I fret about the things Button doesn't do that Singapore would add. So we're sticking with MUS, Life of Fred (on Fridays, just started that) and some Family Math for enrichment. editing to add: Primary Math's in circulation here, too, but I set it aside while we were trying SM out ... Button likes Primary Math much much better.

I used sonlight core A for some of Button's K, and just ordered core B for our first grade. We'll be using their history, readers/read-alouds, and their science; we'll supplement with history with SOTW, the Eggleston history book Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans and probably Synge's On the Shores of the Great Sea; our math is MathUSee and Life of Fred; we do Reading Pathways for phonics right now; Growing with Grammar; Writing with Ease; Getty Dubay Italics for handwriting; All About Spelling too. So we are going with your second option, with the exception of not following WTMs science. If you want a more WTM science, and like having some/all of the scheduling and brainstorming and other legwork done for you, may I suggest you look at the sample pages from Easy Classical's science? I think it is very close to what WTM science ought to be: it follows the suggested divisions, is systematic, rigorous, and seems like a lot of fun so the child will learn to love the subject. Easy Classical is creationist and I myself am not, but may still incorporate their science. You might like to look at their complete and/or history schedules too. Easy Classical takes an approach to history that is too centered on Bible stories for our homeschool (you see this mainly in Ancients, I think), and they don't use my preferred grammar, etc, but they are worth a look for WTM scheduling. If their theology suits it seems like a marvelous option. If you use Sonlight straight-up, as you listed in your first option, you may want to consider carefully whether their Language Arts meets your goals. A search of Sonlight threads shows that WTMers are consistently unsatisfied with Sonlight's LA (but SL's somewhat-recent changes may have addressed this). People do seem generally very happy with Sonlight's science, with the only downside I've heard being one particular child who didn't retain much. This you could address with memory work, of course. To keep things WTM-ish I've ordered the memory-work book Living Memory (by Plaid Dad, who posts on these boards). I'm also reading poetry out loud regularly, usually at snack or lunch, roughly following Ambleside Online's poetry suggestions because it seems that if you don't keep boys in poetry from the start most of them never like it much (notable exception of limericks ;)). Sometimes we lighten the poetry up with Shel Silverstein and/or something like Douglas Florian's Comets, Stars, the Moon and Mars. You could add the audiobook version of Story of the World, read by Jim Weiss, to your routine fairly easily I think and it would augment much of Sonlight's early World History. Finally, I plan to merge the WTM notebook organization & the periodic notebook review with our Sonlight history work but haven't set this up yet. In case it is helpful to some thread-browser, let me say why I'm using Sonlight and share some helpful ideas I've come across. My DS Button is precocious and very temperamental. While I was trying to follow WTM suggestions straight-up I found myself getting depressed, and realized that when Button is in one of his Difficult Phases it is hard for me to see that my homeschooling goals are being met. He doesn't love his work or what I'm teaching him; he's sulky and rude (often -- I don't accept this behavior and am working on it but it is a reality) and when I pour so much into finding his supplementary books (a la WTM suggestions) and he's so unappreciative, it is not a healthy scene (meaning, I cry a lot at poor DH). If Button were content to play all day I'd just do the basics for first grade, but he does best when kept quite busy and once he's learned something he uses it and seems to really benefit. So I thought that what will help me parent gracefully, and stay content in myself even when Button is challenging and unhappy about school, is to have concrete, educational, kid-friendly tasks for all his subjects. Then we can just move through them and if he doesn't like it at the moment I won't be taking things personally. -- of course if he truly detests something for a sustained amount of time I try to eliminate or adjust it. By 5th grade I plan to transition to Tapestry of Grace, probably merging it with WTM to whatever degree seems suitable. Both TOG and Veritas Press seem to have a depth to their materials that would significantly boost my teaching of the upper years and the Great Books they include. I knew Veritas Press omnibus wouldn't work for me, theologically, but learned that the instructional materials for the early years are strongly providential (meaning, focused on history as something that God has wrought vs. something that humans are muddling through, and which God redeems as possible through those humans who allow Him to work through them). I hope someone will correct me if I have muddled that. At any rate, the scholar's plans were unusable for me personally. So I then looked at the TOG samples and fell in love!!! I was torn btw. Sonlight and TOG for the early years, and especially for this season of challenges with Button: Sonlight's daily scheduling is a plus right now, but I'd prefer not to use an encyclopedia as a history spine. However this old thread convinced me that Sonlight gives the best chance of keeping Button loving learning until he's matured past our current conflicts (seems to happen 'round 8yo for similar children). -- I am _not_ saying that Sonlight's the best generally, but that I think it will help me meet my goals in my situation. Hope I'm right!

:bigear:

.. this is what I'm thinking (and ditto on the replies RE frustration and venting! thanks so much for the perspective). Any ideas on venting frustrations after play dates; mandatory calm-down/ alone time? thanks so much!

not sure what I'm going to do:Button, fresh home from a playdate with a fellow we haven't seen in a year or so -- it went very well, only sadness was Button didn't really want to leave but he did so sweetly -- reached out and pinched 16-month-old Bot-Bot's face, completely unprovoked. Not the end of the world, but untypical, unacceptable behavior and clearly related somehow to the playdate. I sent him to his room for a bit while I think; any ideas? We don't have many playdates: and that's all the context. thanks!

:lurk5: even though this is so old, 'cause I'm looking at these too. :001_smile: Regarding the US Geography question: the Geography guide uses 4 Holling C. Holling books, three of which are US-based and one (Seabird) global.

... I've been deciding whether to start TOG year 1 this winter, or next autumn ... thanks so much for posting this; I hadn't noticed before that the year 1 wasn't fully redesigned ...

Anabel, thank you so very much! That's just what I was looking for -- I think I'll start with the First Great Lesson, and maybe purchase her teaching materials listed -- this is the link for anybody else interested -- this will save me so much time, and be a much richer presentation than I could have managed on my own. For other interested persons, here is MontessoriRD's history manual, which is another presentation; not as rich, but perhaps a good addition/alternative resource. It's about $20 as of this writing. ... thank you again!!!

This is a vague inquiry, but I'm stumbled across a reference to Montessori history lessons based on the needs of people (such as shelter, food, clothing, safety) and I'm wondering if anybody knows of a history resource (other than a Montessori manual ;)) that gives an introduction to/ background for history based on human needs, basic motivations, etc.? Could be aimed at littles or at their teachers/parents. thanks in advance for any help! I will share that Steve Pinker's "The Blank Slate" has a list of qualities common to human societies at the back of it, but that book has strongly anti-religious sentiment throughout and I think Pinker glosses over some important details/facts in making his case; also, one of his main points is that parenting has approximately zero effect on a child's personality (I myself disagree) and that would annoy most folks here, I imagine. But the list of cultural constants is another source I'll be using, and if you're either secular or a thick-skinned person of faith you might find it the book interesting. I have no other sources to share yet ...

... well, there the command not to bear false witness, which many folks agree implied not bearing false witness in a legal case, is often broadened to lying generally; and not to murder, often to not killing; also there are two lists of the commandments, which differ slightly. Also most of us are working from English translations of a text copied from another text, etc ... but certainly there's a strong nugget there...

I am nearer to being a secular humanist than anything else, and I polled as a universalist. I think that many religious persons believe that secular persons have no real morals: no sense of absolute right and wrong, or else they would be religious. There is a great deal more to any particular religion than a conviction that moral truth exists, however. The treatment of women in different cultures has come up several times, and seems to me a fine example of why relativism is dangerous. If slavery is absolutely wrong, as many here have posted, than the subjugation of women should surely be absolutely wrong too. This seems clear to me in the case of denying women access to education. Stunting, or constraining, a person's intellectual development and sophistication stunts her moral and ethical development and counts as an evil. As does a culture which forces women into early marriages and family rearing: anyone on this board knows how having children can limit one's other ambitions! and having children you are not ready for or do not want makes it so much harder to mother with grace and to grow spiritually through your mothering. -- female genital mutilation is generally considered evil these days, on a par with footbinding in old China, but was once considered culturally relative. Women's equal status before the law, and right to vote, may be considered more nuanced; but it seems that, practically speaking, constraining women in these ways does them harm. So I disagree strongly with those who hold constraints on women's freedoms to be their cultural prerogative; so do many women:). Of course: intelligent people of good will shall disagree, and I may not be right ... There is also plenty for a Saudi or any other outsider to morally condemn in America. Two examples that come fresh to mind are the sexualized photographs of children on display at American supermarket checkout counters -- think Elle, Vogue, etc. -- which reflect and exacerbate some of our own corruptions; and (heavy on my heart) the state of the Californian prison system and the abuses of the prisoners, this being something for which I as a Californian bear accountability. -- thank you to the OP for this discussion, and to the other posters for giving me lots to think about and some things to question in my own beliefs.