Be forewarned that AoPS Geometry is known to be one of their most difficult courses/texts. And, if he has not taken any AoPS courses yet, it may may not be a good choice or best time to jump in at this point. That is especially the case if coming from MUS which is on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of rigor and challenge. We went through AoPS Intro to Algebra and decided to move to something else for Geometry for a number of reasons. That's not to say it is bad. It's just not the best fit for everyone, dare I say most students, even if STEM inclined.

No, there are no extra plugins required for their courses. So, that should not be an issue. Here is the digital pen my son uses for the courses. It was recommended by his first math instructor: http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Intuos-Touch-Small-Tablet/dp/B00EN27U9U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404844132&sr=8-1&keywords=wacom+intuos Based upon Paula's experience above, you may or may not need the pen depending on the specific courses/instructors. There may also be workarounds for those who do not have one. My son has used it in both Geometry an Algebra II while interacting with the teacher and fellow students during class.

While it may seem like a silly question, I can understand why you would ask. We don't use a Chromebook; but it really should not matter since we use the same Google Chrome Browser. Their course is a web application which runs within the browser. From a technical standpoint, a Chrome browser is a Chrome browser regardless of which operating system it runs on. The quality of your internet connection will be much more important than whether you use a Mac, PC, Chromebook or some other device. In addition, most classes require a digital pen. So, you will need to consider that as well, if required.

We really liked Jurgensen for ds who is also planning to go into computer science. I work in the field as well. In my opinion, geometric proofs are an important part of developing logical, mathematical reasoning skills. Many modern texts gloss over them or skip them entirely which is a disservice to today's young students. Jurgensen, OTOH, masterfully weaves proofs throughout the text. That is why many honors courses use the text today. Wilson Hill Academy is a great place to take geometry if you go the online route.

This is a real bummer. At this stage, its important to think beyond the grade and consider the impact it will have upon the student's learning. Who cares about the grade? What about understanding physics? If left as it is now and simply swept under the rug, that will be the student's impression of physics going forward. As a minimum, I would at least go through a conceptual physics or something to remediate what was missed during the course. Focus on the learning and rest will work itself out.

We've used and really liked Wilson Hill Academy for higher level courses - Geometry and Algebra II. It is probably ds' favorite. He used TabletClass for Pre-Algebra and really liked it also. However, it is more advanced than most Pre-A programs requiring more of the students early on. Like most things, each curriculum/vendor will not be a good fit for every student. IMO, math is probably the one subject requiring the most tailoring. Each child's learning style and innate ability to problem solve as well as their mental maturity and associated willingness to wrestle with difficult problems are so very different. That's also why some rave about AoPS while for others its a total flop! I would say TabletClass prepared ds well for AoPS intro to Algebra which was probably his most challenging course in terms of curriculum. He would spend over an hour at times working on a single problem which is par for the course in AoPS. For our middle dd who struggles more with math, we will be using Derek Owens Pre-A next year which looks like that 'just right fit' for her. If your son is capable to advanced as you've described, I would consider WHA, DO and TC online classes. DO and TC have online demo lessons you can check out first. You really need to tailor it to his learning style, especially if he is apprehensive. So, I would recommend allowing him to listen to the instructors when and where available. Involve him in the selection process to gauge best fit. How does he do keeping up with the pace of a normal math course? WHA wins for its live interactive component. However, our middle dd may not be able to follow at their pace. So DO is a good choice in her case since its asynchronous as is TC (but more intense).

Lot's of choices for Pre-A. We really liked TabletClass for our math inclined ds. It is challenging while also providing a great set of instructional videos including step-by-step explanations for the solutions. We then moved into AoPS intro to Algebra. Following AoPS, he attended Wilson Hill Academy for Geometry and Algebra II. Their live, interactive courses are excellent and totally worth the price of admission. So, that is something to keep on the radar once they get to the more advanced levels. Live courses can add a whole new dimension to the learning experience including engaging with high quality instructors and other peers. It turns out that our somewhat shy son thrives in this interactive environment which we discovered while attending WHA. For our middle dd who struggles more with math and is finishing MM6, we are going to take Derek Owens Pre-A next year. It seems to be a good balance for her between rigor and the flexibility she needs. We are looking for that just right challenge. If she wasn't so burnt out on MM, we might have just moved into MM7 which others have rated positively. Sometimes, not always, variety helps to keep things interesting and fresh for them. So we do use a variety of vendors which they seem to appreciate. Of course, this does take more planning and thought than staying with a single curriculum. But I think that is more of a parent thing than a kid thing. They are very adaptable at this age as long as the curriculum is appropriately selected for their learning style and ability level. For us, tailoring things for the individual student is very important and one of the main reason we homeschool. While some subjects lend themselves more to the 'one size fits all' approach like history, math is definitely not one of them, IMO.

Well, Brad, now that the academic year is basically over except for a final in math, I can honestly say that our experience basically reflected yours as well. We scaled things back to ~ 40-45 hour per work week and DS ended up doing the same if not better in his classes. So, I want to thank you again for the nudge to simply try it. We didn't have much to lose at that point after nights and weekends were being consumed by school. Its so funny how he just managed to work it out. Though we did print out a realistic schedule and gave it to him as a guide. So, I think that helped as well in allowing to him to see how it 'could' be done.

I think you have come to the best conclusion, all things considered. She has plenty of time to grow in both maturity and mathematical abilities. Getting an early jump start at home will help her with any of the more difficult courses to come. Having solid algebra skills is foundational to all upper level math courses. If she gets bored doing it over two years, there are other good books you can weave into the mix including pre-geometry and Intro to Numbers Theory.

Just answered this. See my post on the high school board.

While we didn't take Algebra at WHA, ds14 did attend the past two years of high school taking Geometry and Algebra II. Our youngers are also using MM. The only thing I would caution you on regarding age is ability to handle college prep high school level courses. To go right from MM 7 to any algebra class is probably doable. However, there is a level of work and expectation which is above and beyond most middle school courses. As a comparison, our son went through AoPS Intro to Algebra in 8th grade which is very challenging in terms of content. It prepared him well for higher level courses at WHA to follow in high school. But they were not a walk in the park by any means. There is a rigor associated with the courses which may be fine for your daughter. I think it really depends on the child in terms of where they are at with their time management skills, ability to handle challenges, tests and so forth. Only you can be the best judge of that. All that being said, WHA has been an awesome experience for our son and we feel blessed to have had the opportunity for him to attend. Timing is really the only thing you need to work out. Possibly wait a year or... maybe not? Keep in mind also that the teachers are *very* friendly and helpful. They even helped me before we attended addressing some of my concerns. I recommend you reach out to one of the algebra instructors to gauge what they think as well. After all, you are simply performing your due diligence before making a more informed decision. ETA: I just noticed in your sig that she is attending the WTM Academy this year. So she may already have been introduced to the rigors of more demanding courses?

I am interested in this as well. :lurk5:

Great to hear, Lisa. Even though we like WHA, we will be switching to DO next year. The reason for this is we needed more flexibility. Our son will be taking an intense chemistry course at our local CC in the Fall which counts as a full high school credit. So, we plan to focus on science only for Fall. After which we will start Pre-Calc in the Spring focusing exclusively on math. Since DO is asynchronous, it provides us the flexibility we require for our schedule.

Since I have been planning on enrolling two of our kids in DO math classes next year, I was somewhat concerned about test preparation issues. So, I wrote Derek and received some very helpful information which eased my mind. For the sake of others who may read this thread, I wanted to share Derek's thoughtful response: "First, thanks for the email and the info. The link to the Well Trained Mind discussion board was very helpful. I do try to make my courses fit what people want and need, and feedback is always appreciated. I was on the WTM board several years ago, but have been too busy to participate there lately, so that information was certainly helpful. Also, understand that while my courses are basically complete and in place, I still actively work on all of them. I will record new videos to improve the explanations, or sometimes just to improve the audio and video quality, and I still write new lessons and create new practice problems. So the courses all gradually continue to change, and these changes are driven primarily by three things: 1) my own study of the material, 2) my experience in the classroom, actually teaching these lessons to the students, and 3) feedback from the parents and students. Based on these things, some of the questions in your email are being addressed, although gradually. Last year, for example, I expanded the exam review for Algebra 1 and for Calculus, completed videos for several new exam review problems in almost every course, and completed all of the “Version 2†tests for each chapter of each course. I also added some additional practice problems and example problems in Algebra 1, Physics, and Precalculus. I still have a long list of improvements that I want to work on, and in the summers (when the workload slows down to about half) I usually make a good bit of progress on such tasks. I appreciate your comments on the Dolciani book. I do have Book 1 and Book 2, and while the books themselves are a little dated, the problems are excellent and I do like the organization that they bring to the courses. I don’t use the “spiral†review approach that Saxon uses, but I do think a mid-semester, cumulative, mixed review would be a good idea to add to all of the algebra courses, and would actually not be that hard to do. That could be a project for this summer. Right now, for the Precalculus course, I use the 4th edition textbook by Michael Sullivan to assign practice problems. These are not graded, but I do welcome questions on any of them and help students with them as needed. If a student wanted even more practice, there are many problems in the book, and I doubt that a student would ever exhaust that one text as a source of practice problems. That said, I do hope to, at some point, expand the practice problems in my course to the point where the text is essentially superfluous, but still available if needed. For the exam review for each semester, I have a large set of review problems with solutions worked out. The students in my live classes have never asked for more review beyond that, but if someone did want some more review beyond that I would welcome such a request and would try to help. Also, I have two versions of each semester exam, and if a student needs to retake the exam for some reason the version 2 exam is available for that purpose. Sometimes I have students ask to take the version 2 semester exam, or the version 2 chapter tests, in advance just for practice and that is certainly okay. I encourage students and parents to get in touch as needed, and I generally can be flexible and try to find a good solution to special requests from parents when they need something, or when they need the course modified in some way to fit their situation." -- Derek Owens

I'm glad to hear you have been helping her achieve a better balance, Lanny. Its sounds like she's been wanting to deal with these things for a while and just needed some help framing it. At their young age, they are still developing in so many ways including their perspectives on the importance of work and play.

Yeah, it was a tough decision to move from my tried and true DSLR to a lighter weight, unknown system. Since I've been hiking, backpacking and mountain biking more with my energetic teen, I really have wanted to lighten the load. And I'm not getting any younger. So having all that weight around my neck is less desirable than it used to be. I sometimes like to hike with the camera out and ready to go. If I was less active, I may have just stayed with the DSLR. It does have its advantages such as superior ergonomics and the nice optical viewfinder. Regarding the images I posted, they are kind of a mishmash with the first two being from the Sony. The last three while skiing and snowboarding were cellphone shots. And the last one of the redwoods in the snow was from my old Canon DSLR. The Sony FF sensor actually performs better in terms of dynamic range and latitude than my old DSLR. What used to take several bracketed exposures, like that first shot, can now be achieved within a single frame.

Haha, well, in answer to the first question, the mountain shots are from Sequoia National Park. I didn't even include pictures of the sequoias in the snow which is a beautiful sight in and of itself. I'll include one below. Regarding cameras, its been a hobby of mine since the kids were born. I've shot with many including full frame DSLRs. Currently, I am shooting with a mirrorless Sony A7 which is lighter than my old Canon 5DII. They are both full frame cameras. I really like having a lighter system which takes equally good photos. I'm actually considering the Fuji X-Pro2 mirrorless as well for my next camera. There are many great options out there. I think the choice really boils down to what your preferences are as well as the use cases. For example, what would you shoot most? Sports, street photography, macro nature, landscapes, portraits, events, etc..? I do primarily landscapes and family portraits. Here one of the Sequoias with snow:

Possibly a music director or a teacher. There are many areas in the medical field in addition to nursing that would be worth looking into. How about occupational therapy. radiology, sonography, medical research, osteopathy, speech therapy, etc... The list is huge.

Its a month later now and the modified schedule has still been working. This includes no homework on the weekends or late at night. Basically, he has free time again. Its almost like he doesn't know what to do with it at times. And it hasn't been without its challenging moments. He's starting research and work on one of the most interesting labs in Physics for the year. It's a bridge project! How cool is that? ;) So restraining himself from working all hours on it is challenging. But we went on one of the best hikes we've been on lately last weekend in addition to a mini family vacation to the snow and redwoods. We snowboarded and cross-country skied together, all without a sense of guilt about not doing enough homework! Consequently, it has been a big win for him and us even if the adjustment and restrictions were a bit challenging at times. He needed us to come along him and give him some boundaries and guidance. I think testing one's limits is simply a part of being a teen. Thanks again for the great advice hive friends!!! Here a few pictures to show the benefits of the change. This is what he should be enjoying as a young man:

We've used Apologia for the younger years. However, I am somewhat concerned about a possible over emphasis on YEC. Can anyone comment on how much this is addressed in either from the text or videos? Thanks,

I'm not really sure yet. He may just take college level calculus based physics for his next Physics course. There are pros and cons to taking three similar physics courses as in the 101 basics. There are many other physics courses beyond that level which are interesting options. What's important to take twice I think is Calculus - once in High School, once in college, for reinforcement.

Hi Woodland Mist Academy, Would you mind sharing the course which your daughter struggled in? I am trying to decide on DO for our middle daughter next year who will be taking Pre-A. It will be her first online class. She's using MM right now which is not spiral. Though they do offer good built-in reviews before the tests and cumulative reviews before mid-terms and finals. I've generally heard good reviews of the DO courses. This is the first time I've heard of problems with the video format and lack of reviews before mid-term/final exams. Since there are so many who take DO classes with positive results, I guess the format works better for some than others. Still, it is very good to know that for some there are problems as we have very different styles of learners in our family. I can imagine dropping being a hard thing to do but better if it simply was not working out.

Its sounds like moving may be your best option given all the driving you do combined with the lack of local educational support. With 5 little ones to consider that has to be a high priority. Of course, moving is a lot of work and not everyone can do it. But if you can, look very carefully into the educational opportunities before making the switch.

Well, its been a week since my initial post. Since then, we've received great advice from you as well as genuine concern from both of his teachers who also participate here. Based on suggestions, we've decided to try to limit his school work to ~ 40 hours per week just to see what he could do. He had to catch up first before setting time limits. We created a schedule with reasonable blocks of time to work in each subject along with some 'general' study time. We then shared our goals for his time with him along with discussions we've had with other folks (teachers & forum members). So far, he has responded favorably, which is great! He is playing with his siblings right now and enjoying other activities. No school work this weekend. We'll see how things go longer term. But we are happy to see him enjoying other things beyond school work this week. Thanks everyone for the encouragement. It is really appreciated. Longer term, we do want to allow for more flexibility. But first, we want to help him learn what he can achieve within reasonable time limits. Of course we have to allow for things which come up that can alter a more set schedule. For example, if we take a day off school to go skiing, hiking, etc.., he may have to make up school work at night or on weekends. But the general idea is still the same - balance! :) ;)

It's my son's favorite class. He loves physics. Plus, Jetta is a truly caring and gifted teacher. Bottom line is its a great opportunity to learn physics.