I am still thinking through high school for dd and reflecting on our oldest son's experiences at a local university. At least for the first two years, most of his courses were textbook courses, and his biggest hurdles were dealing with pacing, i.e. usually covering one textbook in 4.5 months, and volume; i.e. reading and notetaking in 5-6 textbooks at the same time. In addition, he had to memorize vast quantities of information from that notetaking as well as his lecture notes in order to take numerous tests; i.e. including cumulative finals. On top of all that, he was churning out papers for English and literature classes as well as short response papers in other classes. Btw, some profs tested just from their lectures, so ds only read the textbooks as filler. Other profs were clear that the tests came from their lectures and the textbook, and ds found he needed to takes notes and study the textbook material to nail the exams. For his American lit class, he wrote several short papers plus a 5-6 page formal lit analysis paper, and he was reading 40-50 pages per night in an anthology. His prof expected the students to be able to discuss the short stories and poems in class and gave (or took away) participation points. Ds's final required a working knowledge of all stories and poems because there were short answer responses and quote identification. Our son's first year at college was a struggle and stressful for all of us since he had to maintain a certain average to keep his scholarships. Quite frankly, I was surprised at the volume of work. It has been decades since I was in college, and my experience at what many people called the "hippie" university was different. With that in mind, is this typical for most colleges, and if so, how many of you spend at least some your child's high school years prepping them for the pace by taking them through textbook courses at a half-year pace? In addition, what else do you do to prep your students? We have always used Cornell notetaking, which works for all our children, and our son's class notes were flawless. Also, he worked out a study system that pinpointed exactly how many times he needed to run through his notes to do well on tests. His only weakness that I can see was writing. He was not a strong and fast writer, which we both knew, so he needed help from the writing lab, me and paid tutors. I love the idea of literature-based curriculum and want that to be a part of dd's plan, whether using SWB's idea or something packaged, but taking into account our son's experiences, I see a place for using textbook courses at a shortened pace instead of a "drop-a-day" with many subjects. I look forward to input from others who walked the college-after-homeschool road. Bonita

Hi Everyone, Still working on ideas for high school. I know this does not follow WTM or any classical program modeled after WM, but I have a question. Does history have to be studied chronologically? I have been assessing dd's strengths and weaknesses and feel that the majority of her high school work needs to focus on reading, discussing and writing literature. Combined with math, science, Latin, other composition assignments as well as daily voice and violin practice, I need to streamline her literature and history work. I like SWB's high school, but dd does not have the maturity to begin with the ancients. Plus, I definitely need help with this approach. With that in mind, I took at second look at Excellence in Literature and realized it is exactly what I want. Do you think it's possible to use Excellence... as the core for everything? I spoke with the author today, and she said that is exactly what she did. She anchored everything with a timeline and reading from Spielvogel. By the time, the student has worked through the five years of Excellence..., studied the various authors and time periods and logged everything into a timeline, the big scope of history and literature connect. Any thoughts? Btw, I appreciate all the suggestions offered thus far. Bonita

Hi Everyone, I am still taking notes on SWB's books and putting together a high school plan. SWB lists Genesis through Job as the first four books of her reading list for ancient literature. Does anyone have suggestions for Bible study guides that examines individual books of the Bible? Thank you. Bonita

You might want to check out Writing Strands. SWB has been recommending this curriculum for years, and they are inexpensive and written to the student. All you need is someone to give you feedback. If you call the company, you can talk about your needs with the young woman handling sales for the company. She is a college prof. I think she will provide feedback on by-paper fee. Analytical Grammar will do the job for grammar if you need it. Also, Excellence in Literature is written to the student, and the website recommends someone who is providing feedback for a reasonable fee. This would cover all aspects of English - composition, grammar and lit. Hth, Bonita

Our oldest son, who struggles with math, and our youngest son, who is a math whiz, both used Saxon with success. They self-taught through the Calculus textbook and did well on the ACT. They never complained about the drill aspect of Saxon. Both of them developed the ability to work math problems quickly and accurately. Our youngest finished Calculus right before his 17th birthday, and he ran through VideoText Algebra as a review before the ACT. He said there was nothing in VT that he had not learned in Saxon. It took dd a while to get off the ground with Saxon, but she is self-teaching through the textbooks as well and finally feels secure with math. Check out the Robinson Curriculum to see the results of Saxon -- six children, all used Saxon, all earning Phd's in science. In our house, we found that the strugglers need the repetition and review of Saxon while the mathie just flew through the books. He loved seeing how many weeks he could go with no errors. Bonita

We don't use a tracking system. After trying many types of planners and notebook records, eetc, we now use the planners from Encore Ink/URtheMom. At the end of the year, the student has a complete portfolio/scrapbook that includes books read, quarter and end-of-the-year grades, places visited, textbooks/workbooks completed, etc. The planner includes envelopes to keep important papers and tests for each semester. With everything in one place, putting together a transcript will be a snap. Bonita

I used the American History several years ago, and yes, the TE has many ideas for projects and reports. Plus, the BJU TE's have lots of discussion notes. If you take a look at the samples on the BJU Press website, you can see the TE's. The TE's discuss options for homeschoolers. With BJU, there are more options than most students can do. Also, BJU has revised and updated all their materials during the last few years. We are working with the 8th grade Earth and Space science this year, and it is excellent. The textbook has the organizational structure of a college text. Plus, DD finds it more challenging than Apologia. Bonita

Our family and the families of friends have been investigating various aspects of the military and Guard for the last few years. Full-Time jobs with the Guard exist, but they are rare. The Guard expects service and output before they hand out stateside, full-time jobs. As mentioned in other posts, the Guard deploys. The Guard was recruiting heavily in our area (the Gulf) because they were involved in the oil-spill cleanup, but Afganistan or other war zones are strong possibilities. As regard other branches of the service, a good friend of mine and I both have sons in the Navy. Our sons scored very well on the ASFAB and had many career choices. If your child wants to serve their country and can handle the restrictions and rigor of military life, all branches offer a wide range of careers. Language school is an excellent option for young people with that gift. The language people are well-protected because their training is expensive, and their post-military options are good. Completion of A school usually comes with bonuses of various levels (in the thousands of dollars). A young woman in our church joined the Air Force because they have a training program for teaching. She was offered substantial money ($180,000) for her education and commitment. However, if you have a child pursuing a military career, make sure you get everything they want in the contract. When our son signed up, the Navy offered a clear contract and did not switch out jobs at the end of boot camp. This does happen in other branches. Also, be aware that if your child is not successful in their training or does not cooperate, they will be punished. In short, the military is a wonderful option for some young people. However, it is a serious decision because the military is the real world in every sense of those words. Bonita P.S. With this economy, all branches of the military are flooded with high quality applicants, especially since the military often picks up the tab for college debt. Getting a good offer isn't a given as it was in the past. If you child wants a military career, their high school work and test scores must be strong. We put together a portfolio just as if our son was applying to college. In addition, if your child wants an intelligence job, they will need references and to be out in the community. Even so, you might spend several hours with an FBI agent who probes every aspect of your child's life from birth. P.S. Also, your child must have fortitude and spiritual strength to keep their faith and values in the military. It can be a rough environment, especially in the lower ranks.

Check out Historical Essay Questions by Westvon Publishing. You can get this from Currclick. Examples: Predynastic Period What do you think would be the challenges of combining two large and powerful kingdoms? What would be the advantages and disadvantges? Inventions Of all the amazing inventions of the Egyptians, pick one and fully discuss its development and contribution to their civilization. Bonita

Karen and All, Thank you for the suggestions. I will look at HO. I checked out SWB's The History of the Ancient World from the library. It's not above dd's reading level and the length isn't a problem since she's been reading her way through the RC list. However, she would be embarrassed to read about the goddess Ianna's invitation for Demuzi to "plow her damp field." I don't know if there is more in that vein throughout the book, but dd is an innocent. She know the facts but isn't ready for elaboration especially through the intimacy of reading. Bonita P.S. As I write this, I am listening to dd practice songs for her voice lessons, and while I love listening to the pure clarity of a young girl's soprano, it is her innocence that brings tears to my eyes. That innocence comes through even in her singing. The world moves in so fast. Sigh!

Asta, Just a tip on The Mechanical Universe. It's a calc-based texbook, so student needs to work through that before tackling The Mechanical... Robinson Curriculum has both textbooks. We did RC for years and couldn't find anyone who made it through the course except Dr. R's children. One of our sons breezed all of his math through calc, but couldn't get through this physics book. If and when you get to this, please post about how it goes. Bonita

Evaluating writing takes modeling and practice just like writing, and from the discussions I have with friends, writing evalutation is one of the primary reasons they turn to online classes, etc. Here are resources: Julie Bogart's classes. After our oldest son took several of Julie's classes, I finally had confidence in my ability to provide input on papers. Since then, I have been adding to my mentor's toolbox, and every curriculum (IEW, LTW, and others) connects to what I learned from Julie. Evaluating Writing from Writing Strands - I am working through this now. EV includes student samples of WS assignments with editing comments by parents. The samples and comments are followed by Dave Marks' critique of the editing comments. Marks also includes lists of common problems (if you can get your children to master these, their writing will improve significantly) and spelling rules. BJU Companion to College English - Our oldest son used this excellent resource for his American Lit course in college. The ideas and examples in the lit portions of the handbook helped ds write an A+ paper on the Faulkner short story "Barn Burning." Michael Clay Thompson's Opus 40 and Grading CD - "The result of 40 years of grading student papers,this book contains Michael Clay Thompson's archive of comments used for grading papers -- and his comments to teachers and parents about those comments." I don't have this yet, but it's at the top of my to-buy list. Hth, Bonita

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I am adding to my list. Bonita

Are your children involved in regular service projects? If so, what are they? I am putting together a list of things that dd and I can do together. Bonita

Crystal, Thank you for the thorough reply. Six hours per day seems reasonable for our daughter. She's doing about 4.5 to 5 hours per day now for 8th grade. I planned to include logic, but that may be too much. The history/literature suggestions in WTM seem doable, but I just don't know about putting everything together. I go back and forth. Perhaps I should order MFW and go through it. Then, I can make a decision. Bonita

I have posted several threads about my plans for dd's high school years. I am still trying to make a decision between several options. MFW is one of those options. Can you give me an approximate time for the daily MFW work? Also, what does the student do with the Notgrass spine? Does the student take notes, outline, and build a notebook as in WTM? Does she take the corresponding tests? I appreciate the time everyone has taken to respond to my questions. Bonita

Colleen, Thank you for this suggestion! So far, our daughter will have math, Latin, logic, composition, and science for high school. All of these are rigorous courses, and the time involved adds up to about 5-6 hours per day. Add in practice time for violin and classical voice, and the day is full. A curriculum that is laid out for me like TOG or MFW appeals to the tired, older mom in me. However, following WTM might work better with several weeks for history followed by several weeks working with literature. Today I have been reading and taking notes from Susan's book, and it seems doable. Read and outline a spine. Choose several people or events to study. Add those and others of interest to the timeline. Complete related maps. Read a few original sources and answer the questions from WTM. Read and discuss or write about some time-specific literature. My biggest concern is incorporating Bible events and church history. Perhaps this new curriculum will help. Bonita

Thank you everyone. I only have one student left to homeschool, but after working for years with students who struggle, dd's older brothers, I probably should be realistic and go with MFW or TOG. I'm tired. Bonita

Stand and Deliver is inspiring. The movie is based on the life of a LA, barrio teacher. I read somewhere that he used Saxon. Bonita

I recently got SWB's book from the library, and after gleaning so many wonderful ideas from this list, I am considering following her suggestions rather than purchasing a set curriculum; i.e. TOG, Trisms, MTF etc. They look good, but I think we need to leave time for rabbit trails with other courses. I do have a question. How do you incorporate Biblical worldview/events and church history into your studies? We would probably use one of the spines for 8th grade which just give the facts. How do you weave in the Bible? Is this issue one of the reasons families use TOG or MFW? The weaving in is done for you. Bonita

I have the Movies as Literature and plan to use it with our daughter. Both of our son's freshman English courses required movie reviews, and this course would have been excellent prep. Btw, Julie Bogart at Bravewriter has a movie packet which not only looks at the literary elements of the movie but also technical/production qualities. Since our son's college profs provided little instruction for the movie assignments, he relied on Julie's product to write his papers. In addition, many majors require music or art appreciation courses. Our son took music appreciation and had to attend local music productions and write many 2-page music reviews. Fortunately, he has a music background so this was fun for him. Also, I used Life Prep for Homeschooled Teenagers with our sons and plan to use it with our daughter. The projects; i.e. rent, food, utilties, etc., help students see the big picture of life beyond school. I haven't figured out exactly how to go about this with dd, but the group projects in our son's speech class were difficult for him. He was comfortable preparing and presenting his speeches, but leading a group was difficult. I gave him lots of advice on this because the students were so disorganized and couldn't seem to get their own parts done. I know there are team/duo projects in speech and debate, but I am not sure if dd will time for that. Any ideas? Bonita P.S. Barb Shelton's High School Form-u-la is chockful of interesting ideas for mini-courses and North Atlantic Regional Schools has a booklet you can buy that describes unique course.

I am working on the same type of list for our dd's 9th grade year, so this thread has been helpful, especially tips for discussion; i.e. Teaching Company tapes etc. I would like to know how you incorporated worldview. Does anyone use the Teaching the Classics Worldview supplement? I have seen this, and it looks good. However, our daughter would need some pre-TtTWV work before launching into all this. Does anyone have suggestions? Thank you. Bonita

Hi Everyone, I am in the process of planning high school for our daughter. She is in 8th grade now, and we have never used the classical method. I recently got TWTM from our local library, and I must say that the plan outlined for 9th grade discourages me. Our daughter simply is not at that level. If I want to start classical at the 9th grade level, should I just begin with the ancients and follow the logic-stage history framework; i.e. notebook, timeline, mapwork, outlining a spine, adaptations of classics, a few classics when possible, etc.? We're set for math and Latin, and I feel comfortable making a good choice about grammar and composition. However, I trying to decide about history and literature. Which spine would you suggest? I got SWB's The History of the Ancient World from the library, and it looks readable, but I don't know if this should be the spine for outlining or a book to read/read aloud. Also, for those of you using TWTM, what do you think of Jackdaw? They look good, but pricey. Have you found other resources? I saw that Laurie Bluedorn has a $50 ebook of excerpts from ancient primary sources? Has anyone used this? I appreciate advice from those of you experience with classical method and especially who began with older students. Bonita

We also used Analytical Grammar for our youngest son as a one year refresher. His English ACT score improved significantly after AG. Bonita

Others will weigh in on this, and I look forward to their comments, but we have stuck with Saxon through all the years. When we first began homeschooling years ago, we used Robinson curriculum. Dr. R recommended Saxon. Being new homeschoolers and not having many options, I decided his advice was as good as any. Saxon has worked for all of our children. Our oldest son has learning disabilities and struggles with math. He worked through the Saxon books to 1/3 of the calculus book, scored very well on the ACT and SAT, and did well in his college math courses. Our youngest son is a math whiz. He finished the Saxon books through calculus by 11th grade. He also scored very well on the ACT. Our daughter struggles with math, so it took her longer to get going, but she is will be on track at the end of this year. Throughout the years, I worried that Saxon was weak on math reasoning, etc. However, dd's computational skills are excellent, and she has developed an interest in numbers. Btw, we followed the Robinson math recipe. Math every day except Sunday. One lesson or test every day. Work every problem in every book. No calculators. If the error rate goes above 5%, address the issue. Student reworks incorrect problems until they are correct. No using solution manuals. Bonita