M&M
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Posts posted by M&M
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My oldest dd is the same age as your oldest, and you can see in my sig that I have many younger dc as well.
I decided to have my oldest read through SOTW 4, and read some of the literature this summer. I wanted her to be familiar with the baisics (names of presidents, rulers, major wars) and to enjoy some of the books that go along with this time period. We have not gotten very far, but she will at least listen to all of SOTW 4 by the end of the summer.
I am doing this because I really didn't want my little ones listening in, and I don't think there was any way to avoid them being exposed to such a difficult time period.
My oldest will get an in depth study of the modern era in high school using TOG redesign.
We will all start Ancients this fall. With 5dc I really want to try to keep as many subjects together as possible.
Good luck choosing.
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I know we just had that great thread on Youth Group - why or why not? I've been pondering that and have also just finished reading Family Driven Faith by Dr. Voddie Baucham. I've also listened to a bunch of his stuff from the Colorado conference. I really like what he has to say about the authority and responsibility of the family. I do believe that it is our primary role to disciple and raise our children, but I don't know that having our kids attend Sunday school or youth is negating that responsibility. If we're doing our utmost to disciple our kids at home then what would be the downside to having our kids attend Sunday school or youth group?
Right now, I look at Sunday school as an opportunity for the kids to enjoy crafts, singing, and games with other kids their age in a nurturing environment.
Same with youth group. It's an area where I feel safe allowing my 12 year old the freedom to get together with friends and do some fun things with solid supervision. I am not sure that learning about our faith at youth, in addition to solid teaching at home, is going to have any negative effects.
But something about age-segregation doesn't sit well with me...
So, can anyone share with me why they decided to go to a fully family-integrated model?
Thanks.
I wish I had some answers, but I am still asking questions. Dh just spent time today talking about this exact same thing. It is the age segregation thing that bothers me too.
Voddie Baucham has some compelling arguments, but is he right...is there a right or wrong here. My problem is that I can see both sides, but I have to choose one. There seems to be no middle ground, if we join youth group we are in, if we don't we are making a statement that will not be well received.
I am going to take a nap.
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We won't do history in a 4 yr cycle (ha! like I am going to do 4 different cyles with 5 kids!), but rather alternate each year between American and World as a family study, using a text and adding in lots of biographies, historical fiction and literature (both as family read alouds and independent).
I think you misunderstand WTM history cycles. You don't ever do more than one time or cycle of history in one year no matter how many children you are teaching. All of your students study the same time period at different levels. The four year rotation takes you through all of world history and american history in 4 years.
Hope you have a great year!
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Has anyone used OPG (ordinary parent's guide) to teach reading and then used ETC (explode the code) for worksheets to reinforce skills (and just for fun for the kiddos that enjoy worksheets)?
It seems like you could look at the index of lessons in OPG and the table of contents in ETC and just pull out the pages from ETC that go with your lesson that day in OPG. Hope that makes sense.
Thoughts? Experiences?
I think OPG and ETC make a good pairing. I have never coordinated them. I might have to try that for my next little one.
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I too fell under the spell of the sweet young girl who was selling a three volume reference set. And there it sits on my shelf mocking me. For two summers those books have sat on my shelves and have barely been opened.
sigh...at least we are not alone!
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This thread has been extremly helpful and I have enjoyed all of this discussion
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What are raw Hunza raisins?
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I agree with Laurie here. The congregation should be a place of community, where believers regularly meet (not just once a week) to build relationships with one another. If your church has a youth group, and you choose to not have your dc participate, you are hindering the flow of body life and community for them. If they are typical youth, who usually *like* to get together with other youth, they will always feel like outsiders. If they are homeschooled, even more so. If I may be so bold, I would suggest that you and your dh decide right now if you want your dc participating in youth group or not. If not, I might think about finding a church that does not have a youth group.
So, you feel that participation in youth group should be required of my children or they miss out on "flow of body life" (I don't know what that means) and community?
My children do get together with other youth and yes, they are homeschooled. But just as I don't think that education is a place for my children to be "socialized" in age segregated groups, I don't want my church requiring me to have my children discipled or to be social in age segregated groups.
Our church does not have a youth group right now, although I think that one is coming in the future. If I tried to find a church that fits our family in theology and purpose that and does not have a youth program, I think I would be hard pressed to find one.
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To clarify why I think youth groups are unbiblical:
First you must ask what is the purpose of a youth group? Why does a church think forming one is necessary? What are they hoping to accomplish? I went to several churches growing up where there was a youth group. My understanding of the purpose for such an organization, generally speaking, is to provide Christian education and Christian fellowship for young people ages 12-20 (or thereabouts). In the Hebrew community once a child turns 13 he is no longer considered a child, but an adult. He is expected to take his place in the adult community. Our society has created an unusual species called the adolescent. Perhaps this is why it is so difficult for us to imagine that there might be something odd about that thing we call a "youth group."
The Bible is very clear about who should educate children. It speaks mainly to the fathers and then to parents corporately. There are many verses speaking to parents about raising their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; there are no verses speaking to youth group leaders. I am speaking here about organized youth groups with youth group leaders. I am not speaking about organizing activities through the families in a church for the sake of providing wholesome fellowship for our children and ourselves for that matter. One is a system whereby parents release their children to the authority and supervision of another supposed church leader. The other is a means of providing meaningful activities in a group setting supervised and under the authority of the heads of each household.
The Bible is very clear about the function of a church and of what the leadership should consist. Again, there is nothing in the Bible about youth group leaders.
Yes, I know, there is nothing in the Bible about computers and airplanes either. Just because something is *not* mentioned in the Bible does not make it a neutral subject, however. The Bible *does* mention how we are to educate our children and where we are to go for fellowship. The Bible *does* mention what the structure of leadership in a church should be and the qualifications for that leadership.
I think the church has stepped in to take over this responsibility because so many parents have abdicated it. I like what Dr. Voddie Baucham says to this line of thinking, (roughly quoted, mind you) "If your congregation stopped tithing, would you step in and do that for them?" This is taken from a sermon he delivered at a pastor's conference, a link for which I have already provided in this thread.
I am not trying to be difficult here, but I think it is so like humans to just go with the flow and not question things - especially if there are some aspects of the thing we ought to question that might be to our liking.
It has been brought up that youth groups are worthwhile because they have been instrumental in bringing people to Christ. That is pragmatic thinking. Just because something "worked" in one case (or thousands for that matter) does not make it biblical or worthwhile. It is by God's grace and His grace alone that anyone is saved and He does not need youth groups to bestow that grace.
If you are a Christian, I challenge you to use God's word and His word alone as your guide. Study it out. What does God say about who should be the spiritual leaders of their children? What does God say about the structure of leadership in the church? What does God say about Christian fellowship?
God gave us His word as our guide for righteous living. We need to put our feelings and fond memories aside and make sure we are doing His will and not our own.
Go back and find the link to Voddie Baucham's sermon. He says it so much better than I can. He has studied it out more and is much more articulate that I am. Please know that I am not trying to offend anyone here or make anyone feel foolish. I never saw anything wrong with youth groups until someone pointed out to me that they are not biblical. I had never considered whether they were or weren't. I have been blessed to be a member of a church for 22 years which has never had a youth group. We have plenty of fellowship as families throughout the year. We get together as large groups and sometimes just as two or three families at a time.
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:iagree:
I agree with most of this. I am still working out if I would say these ministries are unbiblical. This is still a matter of prayer and study for me.
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I guess I wonder why we have to segregate our teens or pre teens from everyone else. I know there are many families that don't disciple their children, shouldn't other families be the ones to help these children. Couldn't all of these wonderful things happen in family and church member integrated groups.
We have 5 children, we don't have time to help out in a group for each child. I cannot do youth group, and jr high youth group, and kids programs(AWANA for example -we don't have it but kwim). We would have to have a babysitter every night of the week to care for all of the other children.
Our church does community service, church group outings, movies in the park, volunteer work...why not develop these a family/group ministries why seperate our church body? I understand about these kids, I was one of them. But I was never really a part of the church, I was on the outside in the youth group but not a part of the church body. Youth group did not grow me into the adult areas of the church. When the great youth pastor was gone, so were most of the kids. It took years for me to get back on the right path.
I guess all of this is answering yours and others that want to know what about those kids who are at church without parents...they are included and cared for by the church. Isn't that a big part of what the church is all about -loving others as Christ has loved us?
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I haven't read all of the other posts so maybe this is covered ground already. But, are you against youth groups when they are DURING church services? Or are you against them because you don't feel they are supervised adequately?
I was raised in a Methodist church. My dad became a youth pastor after many years in youth ministry when I was in college. He just retired last year. I had an awesome, wonderful, nurturing experience. I still have lasting friends from 20 years ago from MYF (methodist youth fellowship). It was well organized and incredibly supervised. We planned our meetings for 6pm on Sundays. There were no meetings in the summer because of vacations but we did get together for fun. 3 meetings a month were educational/spiritual in nature. The fourth was a fun night.
That was 20 years ago though. My dad has seen a decline in parent participation and guidance. The kids were harder to handle and he was getting tired, hence, retirement. I think in the right church with the right group of parents and leaders, youth groups are an awesome experience to learn and grow in a healthy and safe environment. My secular friends often joined us and found the experiences rewarding.
All that said, I'm not a Christian nor am I a lost soul searching for faith. I'm truly happy with the path I'm on and STILL think that youth group is a great experience. Had my dad continued with his journey as youth pastor my children would have gone with him.
HTH
Yes I am against youth groups during church. I don't see why a 6th grader cannot sit in a church service ( our service is contemporary). I don't see why we have to segregate our families on Sundays and develop programs for every age group.
I think that churches should help fathers to be leaders in their families and that ministry should flow out of family participation. I think that discipleship should flow from parent to child and that relationship should be developed and encouraged by the church. I don't think that teenage rebellion should be accepted as normal.
I know that many of the youth in our high school group put our youth pastor on a pedestal. We formed a very close friendship with him that lasts until today, but I wish I had learn to respect my father as much as I did this man when I was young.
Youth group is fun, but I want our church to help us pass on our faith to our children, not just entertain them.
I hope this makes sence, 5:30 chaos is beginning early here today!
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Yes, I seem to embrace the controversial these days. I look at this neo classical education we are giving our children and I feel like there is a disconnect when we are at church. Thanks.
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We do raw foods, and make smoothies. I don't use any packets of anything. Nor does any of the raw food community that I asscociate with.
The key for me is to use as wide a variety as possible.
I use cacao nibs often. Do you have question about them?
I think your diet sounds healthy!
~Lisa
What do you do with the nibs? Healthy diet, I still need to lose weight. I think that nursing is holding me back or the last few pregnancies have changed my metabolism.
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My views:
Church is a place to learn about God and I want quality, in-depth teaching. By the time kids are teens (especially) much of that can be gotten in the main assembly. Teens do have special issues etc. to think about but much of that I think should be addressed in the home. Otherwise you might have the "youth group" addressing things like drugs when some kids need it but others are introduced to it when they aren't quite ready. You do have the problem of some teens coming from homes where they aren't taught or discipled but I think that could be handled with good adult mentors in the congregation.
Church is also a place to have relationships with other believers. Worshipping together is vital but I think there is a place for church picnics, hymn (or praise song) sings, etc. But I really don't see why these should be segregated by age. Why couldn't you have a number of families come together for a Wii game night together - the benefits of the teens bonding with the adults and learning from them in a fun setting is much higher in my opinion than an all-teen event. I know that in a large church you couldn't have an all-church Wii night (there just wouldn't be enough Wii's to go around let alone space) but if you did it according to small groups (but not age segregated) it might work. . .
These are great ideas. I just keep coming to the same place ...families should worship and function as a unit in the church. My pastor does not agree with this at all. We live in an area NY/NJ Metro where people are so used to dropping off their children for someone else to deal with that they don't have a clue how to include children. We hosted the only small group where children were allowed to be in the same house (not in the group mind you just in the same home) as the small group. Small groups were supposed to have a separate place to drop off kids for babysitting. My husband refused this idea and refinished part of our basement so there was a place for kids to play. We are forging new roads in this church and it is not easy.
Thanks for the encouragement!
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I'm not against youth group per se, but, what I don't like is when it becomes unbalanced. In other words, there is a time and a place for entertainment, and, I believe, that's really important for teenagers to have wholesome and fun entertainment in a controlled setting like the youth pastor's house, chaperoned outings, or a weekend event at the church. But, if that's the basis for all they do it's not healthy.
The youth pastor is the undershepherd (the pastor being the head shepherd) of the church--youth and their parents. The vision of the church should be alive and well in the youth group and subsequent activities that are promoted within the youth group. It shouldn't become it's own entity.
I also believe that it shouldn't take the place of spiritual instruction in the home. I loved it when parents really got involved with what we were doing in the group. It was so great to get their input and kept us accountable to what we were instructing the kids. We worked with the parents. That's what should happen.
So, in a nutshell, if your youth group is a healthy balance of activity and instruction, if the youth pastor upholds the vision of the church and is actively communicating with the pastor and the parents, then, I would definitely participate and send my teen to their group.
Since there is no established group except ...we are in a very young church (somewhat Purpose Driven in style) it is hard to know what they will do. Our pastor used to be a youth pastor for many years, so this may become another issue where I am not in agreement with his views.
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Sorry if I'm being dense, but what is HEAV?
We follow a similar diet -- NT based but also carb-restricted. I make smoothies daily, but they are probably not as fancy and impressive as the ones you're talking about! :-) I use the NT recipe a lot, and I also make coconut milk smoothies (instead of yogurt/kefir) since coconut oil is so beneficial for weight loss and for controlling candida (which my dd and I both have problems with). You can add a bit of dolomite powder to them for calcium and magnesium. You can add some ground flax for omega-3. That's about all I do.
:lol::lol: Sorry about that. SWB used to make jokes on the old board about
how the Peace Hill Press staff would make heaving noises :tongue_smilie: whenever the conference came up. It is a really good conference in spite of the name.
What is dolomite powder? I think that was something she had.
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but my husband and I have already been hashing out the pros and cons of the youth group. On the whole, there is something about it that just doesn't set well with me.
I don't know how to say to my kids you can do these activities but not those since it's kind of a either you are part of the youth group or not thing.
Also we find as homeschoolers, we just naturally prefer to do things as a family and the youth group tends to really segment the youth from their parents and younger sibilings. I know it's a tough choice but I probably wouldn't send my kid to a group getting together just to play games.
Stephanie
These are the things that I struggle with. The part that I bolded really sums it up for me.
We are the only large family in the church (there are two others, but they have grown children that do not attend our church)and we are one of two homeschooling families. The other family has only two boys that are still hsed all the others are in ps or graduated. We stand out, we do things as a family...we are just different.
It is always nice to come here and know that I am not as weird as other people think I am. :001_smile:
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If you like that check these out. I really like the Biblical Manhood, Womanhood, and the DaVinci Code is great too.
Dh is now listening to him, and is reading Family Driven Faith.
To me he is a breath of fresh air and funny too! And thet homeschool!
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=voddie+baucham&search_type=
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I was at HEAV and breadbeckers was making smoothies with all kinds of ingredients that I have never heard of. All I could think at the time is "This is going to cost me a whole lot of money" , so I hightailed myself away from there.
Now I am curioius, I have been walking daily and am trying to find things to eat that are going to help me lose this weight. We eat whole foods, lots of fruits and veggies, organic meats, eggs, raw dairy products, and I bake from scratch with freshly milled ww. We follow some of Nourishing Traditions concepts.
I think that the smoothies had something to do with raw food diets, but I don't know. I have been into organic for years and I had no idea what all those packets she had were.
Help
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We just don't believe in segregating the church by ages. It contributes to the "youth culture" mentality, which we see as a problem, regardless of the content of the classes. Also, our conviction is that it is just not biblical.
Would you see the Wii sports party as a youth culture activity or a social activity? There are few middle schoolers at our church, so most are dd friends.
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We're also committed to not following the entertainment-based model that's been prevalent for the past couple of decades in youth ministry.
I think this entertainment based youth model could potentially be accepted at our church. The problem is there is nothing established, so we would be walking in blind.
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Please can you tell me whether I am doubling up or have missed anything
OPGTR progressing quite nicely, hope to be at about lesson 80 in Sept
Sight word readers (include some phonics) plus other readers (Dr Seuss etc progressing to whatever is in the library!) Lots of being read to as well.
FLL (once we have reached lesson 80 or so in OPGTR)
WWE haven't seen this yet but plan on using workbook 1
Getty and Dubay, currently level B, level C by Sept/Oct
All about Spelling level 1
Have I missed any area? Do I need ETC for instance, I thought that I had covered it elsewhere but am not sure!
Thanks!
Stephanie
I don't think you need ETC unless you wanted to suppliment your phonics. If there is copywork in WWE you will be fine. We have stopped doing spelling in first grade and focus more on copywork, but that is a personal preference.
Have a great year!
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Let me give you a little history. Dh and I were not raised in homes that really led us in our faith. My parents never went to church, rarely talked about what they believed, dh parents were a little better. They sent us both to Christian school when the ps got too bad (dh and I grew up in the same neighborhood). We participated in the youth group at the church our school was associated and learned so much about our faith there. The only problem was that we both started dating and got into relationships that were not beneficial (very diplomatically put..no?).
Fast forward. Now we are raising our children and are intentially passing on our faith to them. I have already gotten into some conflicts with our pastor and children's program leaders when I didn't put our baby in the nursery. I would love a family integrated church, but there are none in this area. my family loves our church, so we are staying put.
There is no youth group right now, they are looking to start something for the 6th -9th graders during church (which I am opposed to). This summer they have started to have Wii sports parties at the pastor's house on Friday nights for these middle schoolers. They are supervised by the Pastor's daughter and her husband (whom we love and are friends with dd).
Does this sound like the beginning of a youth group? Would this be and activity you would avoid if your were agianst youth groups.
Dh and I are on the fence about how to view youth groups these days. It was good for us, but it would have been better to have been discipled by my parents (in a perfect world). We have been listening to Voddie Baucham and he has some really good points.
Ok, this has gotten long....what say you?
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I would love to have the dvd's for MUS and use those with the singapore workbooks - has anyone taken the time to document which video and MUS chapter goes with which singapore exercise? am I making myself clear? I am in the lower levels, Beta, Gamma, Delta and Singapore 2nd and 3rd. Laura
I think it would be very difficult to do this. Most people who use two programs just use them seperately, because usually you would use programs that are very different in their approach (mastery vs spiral or incremental). I hope someone has done this, as we are using the same two programs as you.
Not too helpful ...huh? Sorry.
Grammar: Scope & Sequence Advice Needed - A Beka 6 & 7 vs. R&S 6
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
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