Thank you so much for sharing!

Hear, hear! I am sick of money being used to find new ways to kill other humans while NOT funding the things our citizens need, and also not taking care of our veterans properly. Seriously! There is something totally whacked with this. And why shouldn't we get tax dollars back in the form of benefits for our kids? It is our money, and especially when the tax code allows corporations to sneak out of paying their fair share. Of all the things we should be willing to support is robust, wonderful Finlandic like cradle to grave education for our people because that is way more worthy of our hard earned tax dollars than weapons of mass destruction.

Agreed. We pay this stupid Hunger Games because we don't have a choice if our kids want to get ahead. To some degree, businesses and corporations are the gate keepers. They decide what hoops they expect in order to get pay raises and promotions and a lot of it is bunk. On the other hand, a long time ago they figured out that a high school diploma, for many students, isn't worth the paper it is printed on so they upped the ante. The states should have fixed K-12 education, not let it rot and pushed the problem off to college. My dad had a position open one time for two years at his business, one that he was willing back in 1998 to pay $25 an hour full time, and help with buying a health insurance policy. He had to set the minimum requirements as an associate's degree because the high school diploma graduates who applied couldn't read and comprehend simple user manuals. They were rudimentary functionally literate, but not 10th-12th grade literate. They also could not perform even the simplest bare bones algebraic solve for X problems nor understood the definitions of obtuse and acute angles, or a right triangle is 45 degrees and why that might be important to know when running a duct in a house or any number of other things. With the reading so poor, he despaired of even attempting to teach the math. Nothing about the job required an actual associate's degree. This was profoundly frustrating for a guy who graduated high school with a 3.0 from a tracked high school in 1962 who had entered the engineering track in 8th grade, exited high school, aced the entrance exam for the missile technology program for the Air Force, and was successful, on a high school diploma. My mom did the home economics and fashion design track, and had offers from Buttermilk and Simplicity way back then for good money straight out of high school. But the school dismantled the education program in the early seventies because the state wanted the "one sizes fits all, trash bag" education to prevail. Old school teachers rebelled, and kept trying their darndest, and until the mid-80's, PS education in Michigan was still decent. However, when so many from that era retired and were replaced, and the state absolutely demanded standards slide, and teacher disrespect, aggressive parents began prevailing, the whole education system fell off the cliff. Without a top to bottom overhaul, this generation faces the likelihood of needing a degree to do anything at all, and that is just really sad, and compounds the problem of student debt and generations of people at the mercy of the system unable to get ahead not to mention paying to take remedial coursework, and struggling with freshman classes.

It is crazy! I consider it all to be a mine field. And it isn't like trades are cheap. Here most of them are offered through the CC's, and they are very expensive. Then there is state licensing, also expensive. The cost of the two year diesel largest engine program locally is $20,000 plus $3000 for the tools, and no scholarships, limited financial aid. So students take out tools. Some find work, many don't because these are money making programs for the CC's so they tend to turn out an absolute glut of graduates, more than Michigan needs. Sure, we have a lot of tractors and semi's here. But many employers prefer the extra NOT cheap graduates of the BS program in automotive with concentration in diesel large engine, and oops, there again, a big difference in sequence for the licensing program vs. the four year. The one program through our utility company, Electrical Journeyman, is super lucrative. It is also crazy hard, and often the kids who thought "who needs algebra and physics" when they were in high school want to get into it because the pay is so great. On average, only 5% of the students who try to test into the program actually make it. The idea that if college isn't for you, go trades, no worries, a lot cheaper, big money, is kind of a lie too. Too many programs turning out way too many grads and not enough employers who offer good pay and benefits. And they are often difficult to test into, and then waiting lists for the coursework. We need a total overhaul of higher education.

I will give these things a try. I have enough quart jars around to store items.

It is and getting worse. We have one of the most corrupt, most inept State Boards of Education ever. We vote for trustees for all the main public universities, but honestly, these people run for these positions for ALL the wrong reasons, and are always tippy top earning cultural elitists. Sigh. I do know we are not alone in this. There are other states who have similar messes.

Same here. And if you can't use the produce you buy same day, it won't be good tomorrow. I feel like a lot of food is languishing long time periods before finally making it to the stores.

Even though the work might be easy, there is value in being in the Spanish class just to practice speaking it. Concepts can also be reinforced by helping other students. Mandarin is crazy tough so if his heart is with Spanish, and he has a plan to use it in the future, I would drop Mandarin. An easy A is also sometimes an okay thing. Not having to work so hard on the homework can free up time for other studies and pursuits.

That isn't true here. The humanities in my state do have very specific specialized sequences, and it is designed that way by universities to make it very hard to transfer between them, and from community college. We have whole swaths of community colleges for which freshman college writing, English Literature, etc. will be considered nothing but electives in the major instead of prerequisites to upper level work thus setting the student back, and adding expense because the student will spend money to pay to take the same class under a slightly different title. But I also cannot totally blame the universities because we have a LOT of crappy community colleges that are really nothing more than high school for grown ups. The coursework and level of instruction isn't equal. But we do have a few good CC's with high expectations and appropriate scope and sequence, and those courses still do not transfer as more than electives, and that I do have a problem with. Our CC's also lie to students and parents all.the.time. Glaring directly at Bluewater Middle College who keeps telling their "Mechatronics" students that they will be able to transfer to uni and only have two years of coursework left for a bachelor's in electrical engineering except that none of their courses are certified as prerequisites to an EE degree which is difficult and way more in depth. So at the universities, AC and DC electronics courses are 3 credit classes, one semester of AC and one of DC, six credits total. At Bluewater, it is one combined course of 3 credits. Why? Because a mechatronics degree is a repairman trade degree. Nothing wrong with that and jobs are available. The level of knowledge needed isn't the same as for the EE who actually designs the circuitry. But, you can't just NOT cover the other stuff and still certify someone as an engineer. So, the student is surprised to find out they have to take AC and DC all over again, and at a deeper, more intense level, and cannot progress onto anything else in the degree until they do. The thing is, it is the same with their Humanities courses. Student get an associate's degree, end up with 50 credits of electives, and still have four years of school ahead in order to get a bachelor's degree. Some of that is by design of the universities to not be able to fill their freshman classes because everyone went the cheaper route of CC, but it is also very much on the shoulders of some the CC's who have low expectations, and scope and sequence of curriculum that is not much more than more high school, and have policies that instructors can't fail anyone for any reason, and have to dumb it down so everyone is successful at CC. It is high school 2.0 in many cases. The CC closest to us is considered "good". Except that I have personally verified their freshman music theory does not get in the ballpark of covering everything that Theory 1 is supposed to covered. A couple of state universities used to accept Theory 1 for transfer from them, but then all the transfers were failing because they had never been taught approximately half the content of a true level 1 course. It should be called a pre-level course or music theory appreciation or note speller class or something. I have tutored students personally who attempted theory 2 at the state university, and was appalled at what passed for theory 1 at this CC. There was no way these students could pass theory 2. None. And of course it meant retaking Theory 1 and getting out of sequence. This CC and several others are very representative of the dumbing down of content. It is the same in their foreign language coursework, and social science courses like intro to psychology. Only a handful of courses pass muster. My middle son graduated from WMU with his bachelor's degree in Anthropology/Archaeology and minors in History and Classical Studies. There is very, very little WMU accepts from CC as prerequisites for those departments. Other states definitely do better because the regulate the content, scope, and sequence of courses, and standardize course titles and descriptions so basic classes are relatively the same from institution to institution, and then require transfer agreements. In those states, that can work very well to drive the cost of a four year degree down. They also regulate satellite campuses so graduating from one of them is the same as graduating from the flagship. This is vital. But we don't have it so commuting to a satellite campus in order to save dorms and meal plans backfires because the quality of instruction is often much lower at the extension campuses. Employers know it. So where there is state and national oversight for the degrees plus board exams, engineering and medical degrees, the programs are sound, and there is no employer discrimination against the graduate. But in other fields, employers do discriminate. There is a desperate need for these things to have more oversight and regulation. But that makes voters and politicians squawk. We need more continuity between states which requires federal oversight, and everyone gets upset about suggesting that. So many students do not have "a cheaper path" to a four year degree all dependent on their state of residence at the time they graduate college, something they have no control over. Believe me, looking at what UAH has to offer, I seriously wish we had moved to Huntsville before any of our boys entered college. They would have had good educations at a fraction of what it cost us here in Michigan. But even with scholarships, calculating out of state tuition, adding on travel expenses, it wasn't cheaper than the higher price of Michigan uni. So that is something to consider. If anyone here has a few years until their eldest is ready to apply to college, could you move to a state with better CC's, guaranteed one for one transfer agreements on prerequisites, and lower in state tuition costs for high quality public colleges? Of course, if the cost of living is higher, that may not work. However, it might be worth checking into.

I am soooo excited. A pipe organist is joining my two aerospace nerd acquaintances for our outdoor coffee escape next week. I need to suppress my geek enough not to scare these people away! 😁 Soror, are there any WTM'ers in your area? I am in nowheresville, podunk not near anything nice lower peninsula Michigan. So I am no help. But, I am wondering if there is someone here within a reasonable driving distance. Coffee and cheesecake meet up is always nice.

We have a problem with getting milk here. Not sure what is happening, but very few places have gallons of milk, some have half gallons, and those half gallons are near or beyond expiration. I bought a half gallon for making potato soup, split the seal and opened it (it had two days left before being post date and was fully sealed so I figured it would be fine), and bam, it was already curdled. The store would not refund my money. It is all over the county, even Wal-Mart can't get fresh milk, and most of our milk is produced and bottled nearby because this is a large dairy farm area. So my guess is that milk is sitting in tanks for a long time before being bottled, and then sitting longer waiting for transport, or something has gone wrong with refrigeration. I can't find any news articles explaining the problem, just a quick blurb that stores are having a hard time stocking milk with no explanation at all. We also cannot buy a decent potato from any source. They are all soft, rotting, sprouting, etc. I had some baby reds that were okay, and used those for the potato soup which I ended up making with herbed chicken broth, and used a little bit of the half n half I keep for my coffee with some corn starch to thicken it. Now I can't buy more potatoes. Ds, the grad student, is home for a couple of days and wanted mashed potatoes. I ended up grabbing a Bob Evans pre-made container of microwavable mashed. His comment, "Mom, these really don't hit the spot, but many thanks for trying." Had I known about this, I would have purchased potatoes in Huntsville last week before coming back to Michigan. I couldn't get portabella mushrooms, arugula, brussel sprouts, kale, cottage cheese, tomato paste, the brand of coffee we like, fresh salmon, chicken thighs, the potatoes, nor rice wine vinegar for hot and sour soup. I am making a grocery list to go farther afield. There is a Kroger and hour from here that I am going to make the trek to and hope for the best. We only have Wal-Mart and three small, independently owned grocery stores in this county. Beats the county north of us that has Wal-Mart and exactly only one other grocery store. That county is even larger. People drive long distances to get food, so it is very frustrating for them when the shelves aren't stocked. In square miles, the county is larger than mine though the population is half. I get spoiled when I am in Bama. We have Kroger, Publix, Wal-Mart, Trader Joe, Whole Foods just along 231 a quick jaunt north. We can also got to Decatur if needed, or to Arab, or Hartselle, and Hartselle has a wonderful farm market.

Hey, I think "Flamingo Migration Chaperone" should be a legitimate career! 😁

We always say cockroaches will be the things that survive the apocalypse, but I think we need to consider flamingos as well.

I have no idea! Really! But you just have to paint this kitchen and post photos ASAP so I can show Mark, and tell him, " 😛 See, wood cupboards can be painted and look lovely!" 😁

That is really unfortunate, bad bad bad. However, in my experience with narcissistic sister in law, there was nothing within my control that stopped her from making up crap. Nothing. So you probably cannot do anything about that. You might be able to change how you react to the fallout. But you cannot do anything that stops her from hurting others unless the others are your kids, in which case you may need to put your children's well being ahead of your nieces and nephews and father in law, and refuse contact with her. I get how hard that is. In our case, my parents were very hurt when I pulled the plug on contact with my brother and sister in law. My mothers ever the family holiday meal kind of person, has not had all of us together under one roof though we live within blocks of each other, for 12 years. However, her hurt could not be more important than my own sons' mental well being, and she made up the most horrible lies about me which hurt them, and about them as well, shockingly unforgivable stuff. So my kids had to come first, and now that they are all grown adults, they see her for what she is and of their own accord chosen no contact with their aunt and uncle. All of my brother's kids are grown adults, five of them. Three are no contact with their parents and have relationships with my children. Two have stuck by their parents which is fine, but has resulted by necessity in all of us and the other siblings being no contact with them. And I know you have custody issues which complicates everything. You can only do the best you can, and sadly that might mean that your kids do not get to be around their cousins whenever you can prevent it, and maybe have to have supervised visitation away from father in law's home if he is not willing to to take a stand. Many, many hugs to you! All of this just stinks, and good answers are few and far between.

Bummer! Well, don't engage into the conversation. Pretend to be a piece of granite.

Go flamingo!!! Gotta admire that bird.

Yes, and do not ever offer up any personal information when she goes probing for it. "Not your business" or "I will not answer that" is totally legitimate. Then you walk away, yawn, and read your book, grade papers, or in my case, I one time read and double checked all the footnotes on some music history papers for a class in which I was the T.A. Sister in law: "What are you doing? Why aren't you talking?" Me: "I have to get this done by Monday. Are you interested in discussing the footnotes in a paper about Domenici Scarlatti?" She walked away and never returned which is exactly what I wanted her to do. I made an art form out of being a boring square! Give no fodder, take no B.S., do not engage.

Agreed. And truly, nothing is going to be done. They will kick the can down the road until many aspects of the economy come to a grinding halt because two generations are living into their forties in two bedroom apartments with three roommates eating ramen noodles, and then everyone gets really angry when social security and Medicare have to be cut - well, technically if corporations didn't have loopholes the size of planets to drive through in order to avoid paying taxes this would not need to occur. The system is a mess. What baffles me is the "other people make bad choices, I shouldn't have to pay for them" mindset unless these same folks are also advocating for ending: publicly funded stop smoking, stop drugging, stop gambling, stop drinking programs, or medicaid/medicare coverage for lung cancer in smokers, liver disease in alcoholics, prenatal and obstetrics care for anyone viewed as not making good choices usually religiously biased perceptions though certainly when it comes to sex, basic common sense does not always come into play, healthcare for those who are incarcerated, all manner of public good works that eventually benefit people those who "didn't make good choices". Part of living in a civilized nation is that we try to spread the pain of bad choices around for the public good because in the end, we pay for them in some way. We could just go feudal, make a laundry list of bad choices, and toss people to the curb financially, look the other way. That was the norm for many societies for thousands of years. We could do this. But the same set of voters who never want to pay for anything, was the same set who voted pro-corporation, pro " everything that benefits me in the here and now, yet screws over future generations" including NOT wanting to pay for robust K-12 public education which is how we started down this path to begin with, and demand that their social security and Medicare NOT get touched when in reality they are the biggest welfare generation ever, and many of them, including my parents, did not make good financial decisions at all. Now that said, I don't see a huge amount of good coming from treating the symptom but not purging the causes. There might be short term gain from the standpoint that a few million people might begin participating in the economy in the traditional way that the last 60 years of economic growth and stability was based upon, but it will likely be short lived. So ya. I get it. I paid mine. My husband paid his, my sons will pay theres or we will pay it form them by remaining in the workforce to supplement 401K income by working part time or having a side business. I totally understand the emotions of it. I sit here with two aging mothers who are "welfare queens" because they will draw ungodly amounts of money out of social security and medicare, community centers for the aging public dollars, you name it, and the wonder if people who claim "They made bad choices so I shouldn't have to pay" are also going to advocate for elders ONLY getting out what they paid in plus reasonable interest, or being denied healthcare treatment for bad choices, or EMS doesn't respond to the bar brawl and leaves people bleeding out because bad choices, let the drug addict die, don't respond to that 911 call. But don't worry. Nothing significant is going to happen UNTIL the system is bust. There will be lots of bobble head talks about it while pandering for votes. However, nothing substantiative will change. In about 20 years there will be a financial coming to Jesus moment over this, and it will be a train wreck of epic proportions. Gen Z will by in large not own homes, not buy stuff besides the cell phone and clothes required for work, will not have kids, will not get ahead in any appreciable way, will not have the resources to take care of elders and social security will be BEYOND bust, and they will have degrees that might be quite valuable to other countries with low birthrates who need workers. That brain drain has already begun. And many didn't make bad choices but were taken advantage of by a very corrupt system while hearing endless messages from parents, grandparents, businessmen, bankers, you name it that they have to go to a good school in order to get a good job, and that it is a character failure to not attend the very best ranked school the student can gain admission to while never acknowledging that the whole reason they are being set up for failure is the train wreck of public k-12 and the endless ridiculous reasons employers give for not paying living wages. As for professors who make $150,000 a year? Nope. Maybe at Ivy leagues of which there aren't that many, maybe at the top 100 colleges out of the 3000ish colleges we have in this country. The average salary for a full time faculty member was $104,000, Associate professors $81,000, Lecturers $56,000, and less than that for adjuncts (figures from 2018), and 46-55% of public university faculty were part time lecturers and adjuncts with no benefits earning less than $60,000 a year. The issue is not faculty salaries, it is ridiculous administrative salaries, perks, and overhead. The sheer number of administrators with a bevy of administrative assistants is staggering, and then there is the whole sports thing which is, well, epic. When my brother in law was a vice president of a small, college he made five times what the highest paid faculty member received. Brother in law had a master's degree. Faculty had PhD's. His administrative assistant made twice the average of full time faculty. She had an associate degree from community college. Lots and lots of reform and regulation is required to fix the problems, and none of it is going to happen until a massive, unbelievable crisis ensues. Just like climate change. So long as the 1-2% are making money off the train barreling towards the cliff, and politicians retain power by maintaining the status quo, nothing is going to change. All we can do is the best we can do for our own kids and hope they make it.

I agree. And it shouldn't be personal finance taught by bankers who will slant it towards "being in debt to us is good for you" but true finance consultants who do not have a financial incentive to skew their advice. Instead, just solid teaching by experts without proselytizing for investors among the students, no teaching license required. Stick them in the classroom with the seniors. If necessary, a licensed individual can quietly observe in the back of the room. I think we need kids to hear from sources who help people financially for a living, and regular people not just the 2%, but with zero surfing for clientele.

Here is my issue. High school diplomas aren't worth the paper they are printed on according to employers. So business has made college or trade school the threshold for employment that pays living wages plus some hope of health care benefits. This forces the issue of entire generations being required to take on debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy, and being enslaved to those payments for up to twenty years. Colleges, universities, and trade schools have been allowed to engage in predatory practices, out and out lies, etc. upping tuition and fees by 400-500% over increases in wages. This has essentially created a generation of people who will never own homes, never take vacations, buy new cars, buy furniture, save money, and will forever ration healthcare because they cane pay student loans and deductibles and the insane cost of living relative to wages in many areas, and is causing huge swaths of them to decide they cannot afford to marry or have children. This has massive negative effects on the economy, and for those drawing social security and Medicare be very very scared because they will draw out way more than they ever paid in and are dependent on a robust size generation of young folks to pay into that system and continue to bolster the economy for the benefit of retirees. But they can't, and without help, will not be participating at the level needed. I paid my student loans. I get it. It is annoying as hell. However, I also went to college at a time when a year of tuition was only 10% of my family's annual income, and their EFC was way less than that. With three in college at once, our EFC was 1/3 of our take him income, and the total costs to attend exceeded our annual income when taking into account dorms, mandatory meal plans, and books/supplies. We paid, and paid dearly from savings, emergency savings, and 401K withdrawals. Most families can't do that, and it would have been impossible to save all of that money just for college because wages did not keep pace with education inflation. What saved us were our kids scholarships which significantly reduced their bills and allowed them to only take out federal student loans. But schools have cut way back on merit aid causing many high achieving students to not even be able to get decent scholarships. None of us have to like it, and it would be stupid to only address the symptom and not the root cause like for starters paying years and years of taxes in my state for "public universities" only for the legislature to lower the tax dollars those same institutions receive to less than 12% of their minimum needed operational budget. They take our money for the purpose of education, and then spend it on something else. That is one cause. Then we have to force the State Board of Education and the Federal Department of Education to do some SERIOUS regulating of public university finances. We all know that isn't going to happen, and we would have to fund more financial aid that is not loans or merit based, and I don't see that happening either. So Millenials and Gen Z, got screwed, and no one wants to do anything about it. I think going forward the law needs to be that private student loan debt is like any debt and can be discharged in bankruptcy. This will end the predatory loan practices because banks won't be able to draw blood from a turnip if they loan to someone who may not be able to pay it back. If it was more like car loans and house loans, that would go a long way towards fixing the issue in the future because colleges will.have to do other things to make school affordable or they will won't come close to filling their classes and dorms because there will not be an avenue for raising rates all the time, and foisting that financial burden off to debt. I would imagine financial aid would get more robust, and merit scholarships would grow a whole lot bigger. Maybe some of the smugness of college financial aid offices announcing that the $550 grant on a $15,000 tuition bill is NOT a generous amount. Some of things that come out of the mouths of individuals working in college business offices just amazes me some tike, and not in a good way either!

I think you and Soror should have a zoom social time. It isn't the same as in person, but it allows for grown up conversation and puts a face to the words which is comforting. Maybe you would find things that you enjoy talking about. Maybe not. I just wonder if it would be worth trying during this time when it is so hard to make local friends and socialize.

I have recently had some success by focusing on my two areas of passion. Classical Music and Aerospace Engineering. I am starting to build a network for a summer, mini-concert series I am offering, as well as getting involved with some aerospace education outreach through a couple of colleges and companies. I have had some really nice conversations with engineers and musicians, and actually have an outdoor coffee meet up schedule in April which I am excited about. None of these folks are local so in order to socialize, I will have significant travel involved (an hour or more each way), but at this point am happy to do it. Maybe you could find a group or club centered around something you enjoy.

I just did a quick Google of " U of MI in state tuition and fees 2002/23" and that was the number that came up from, oh boy, was it college confidential? niche? net price? Okay, can't remember. I do know that if our youngest were relegated to a fifth year at his institution (thank goodness he is graduating on time), the price increase was going to be staggering! I really don't know how this can continue. Sorry if I was wrong about the number.