Ooh. Wonder what will happen if I do all of these things simultaneously? :ack2: I'll keep you posted.

You guys are wonderful. I'm gargling with salt water (the only thing I have in this hotel room...lots of little salt packets) and making a shopping list. SWB

I'm in New York getting ready to speak at the LEAH convention. I caught a fresh cold yesterday. My voice is GONE. I've never had it go so quickly, so early in a cold. HELP. Remedies!! Remedies, please!!!!! :eek: Susan

Depends. The purpose of narration and dictation is to help students develop basic skills in getting words down on paper. If your 9 and/or 11 yo can tell you what they want to write, out loud, using complete well-formed sentences, they don't need to do narration. If they can take those sentences and put them down on paper without struggling with spelling and punctuation, and without asking you constantly to help them remember what they're trying to write, they don't need to do dictation. If they struggle in either of these areas, they could benefit from the last two years of lessons on WWE. SWB

Working on it! SWB

Sorry it took me a while to get to this thread! I'll offer a couple of thoughts, with this qualifier: I've examined both of these programs, but I haven't used them with my own children (I'm a writer and I have strong opinions about how writing should be taught, so I do my own thing :001_smile:). First, I think either program would equip your kids with writing skills, so you don't have to fret too much about making a big mistake with your choices. If you feel drawn to CW, I'd go with CW. Second, differences: IMO, CW has a more global approach to writing--a wider focus on general writing skills, on THINKING about writing, on doing types of writing which aren't necessarily going to prepare students directly for upper high school and college writing, but which are nevertheless valuable and interesting. IEW is more narrowly focused on essay prep, especially in the upper grades. That's not a bad or good thing, just a difference in emphasis. Third, strengths and weaknesses: I've said before that I don't think CW has enough parent helps, especially for parents who are apprehensive about teaching writing or who feel unprepared--this may be a nonissue for you, but I'd definitely review the course before purchasing it. And, as a general observation...my own preference is to do the progym in high school and to spend the middle school years working on outlining skills and structure--the logic of writing. IEW does a very good job with this. However, for me the big weakness of IEW is the whole dress-up element of the program. The idea of artificially shaping sentences by inserting various elements is kind of...abhorrent. Style should be a by-product of clear straightforward expression. (DISCLAIMER. I like Andrew Pudewa, he's an excellent teacher, his program is valuable, many people use it well, but I'm a writer and this facet of IEW bugs me, probably out of all proportion.) Fourth, random thoughts: I'm guessing that if you didn't like Shurley you might not enjoy IEW--it seems to me that the teaching styles are similar. Conclusion: you can make either program work for you. If you're drawn to CW, follow your instincts and use it. You might consider picking up the IEW high school essay course, when the kids are a bit older, and running them through that to cover all your bases. Hope this helps. I'm kind of reluctant now to post about other writing programs because 1) as I'm producing my own, I'm no longer a particularly objective observer, and 2) I don't want my highly personal opinions (see above) taken as either condemnation or endorsement. Or reproduced as such on other home school sites. Those are my OPINIONS. Here's something that you can take as actual DIRECTION, though. Do the program you're drawn to and don't fall into the trap of worrying about the things you're "missing." Either program will build strong basic skills. SWB

You are so right. And in fact this same conversation came up at least once a year on the old board. I think it's just an inevitable element of an online community. Those of you who have been around a while know that we resisted this change for a long time. But whatever you like/don't like about it (personally, now that I've gotten used to it, I LOVE it), it has one huge advantage that most of you don't fully appreciate. It can't get spammed by porn while all the adminstrators are sleeping. Yeah, there's a story behind why that particular advantage stands out in my mind... SWB

$30, huh? Well, we have six library cards, forty-book limit on each, and they're usually full, which means that we generally have over two hundred books out at any given time. Try letting two hundred books all get five days overdue, and you'll be cracking out your credit card to clear the debt. In fact, my highest library fine ever was-- OK, never mind, I don't think I'll tell you. :blushing: Must continue to maintain the illusion that I actually have myself together. SWB

I don't know whether it's possible to make the rep system completely "non anonymous," but I will say this: If you want to give feedback to someone who's generally hostile and combatative, you probably won't do it if you think they're going to then blast you on the forums. There are pros as well as cons to anonymity, and the board moderators do keep an eye on frivolous negative repping. If someone's doing it, they hear from us. And on that topic: As far as the board rules go...discussing rep points is not against the rules. Getting on the boards and announcing that someone who gave you a negative rep is an idiot IS. For clarification, we've added the following to the board rules...hope that helps. SWB A Note about Reputation Points We may remove inappropriate, unnecessarily hostile, or random negative points. We leave the others. You, the community, have the right to react to each other. The reputation points are a way for you, the members of this forum, to shape your own community. Receiving a negative rep means that you have offended another member. You have two choices: Alter your style of expression (that's the "shaping the community" part) or ignore the rep points. Complaining repeatedly about the use of rep points is not appropriate. If you like someone's comments, give them a positive rep. If someone is hostile, abusive, or calls names, give them a negative rep. If you get one of the above, decide whether you're going to pay attention to it or not. Please do NOT post endlessly about how persecuted you are by the rep system.

Semisweet chocolate chips stirred into a jar of Smucker's natural crunchy peanut butter. OOOH. Had some last night, in fact. SWB

Thanks to all of you. This is fascinating! SWB

I missed the WIC thread, but I'm on the same page: Pete and I used WIC for two years when he was waiting tables, I was in grad school, my parents were ill, and we had two babies. It got us through a tough time. Now I'm paying taxes to support other moms who need WIC, which seems like a great thing to me. SWB

I'm really curious to learn what math strategies you're all pursuing with your high school students. What program are you using? Or did you go the tutorial route? Or the co-op route...or community college...or online course? Let me know what's working. SWB

Actually y'all do seem a little cranky, generally, board-wide, today. Maybe it's the weather. Wonder how many people are getting rained on today? SWB

We'll put them up as soon as the typesetting is finished--definitely by midsummer. I'll keep you posted. SWB

I'd stick with the FLL1/2 at a quicker pace plan, largely because it will introduce him to many of the concepts he'll encounter in FLL3, but will allow him more opportunity to practice orally. By the time you get to FLL3, the writing issues will be a little easier to deal with. And don't worry about "getting behind." You can do FLL3 and FLL4 and then go right into Rod & Staff 5, and since the Rod & Staff sequence finishes in tenth grade, you can start FLL 5 as late as seventh grade and still finish on time. Make sense? SWB

Yeah. Well, I expect in twenty years my kids will be saying the same thing about me. Not worrying is my GOAL. Like everyone else, I wake up at 2 AM and wonder if I'm ruining my kids. (I'm not kidding. Is there a mom out there who DOESN'T do this? I'm not sure I'll believe you if you post, but go right ahead.) A certain level of anxiety is part of the process, and I don't think it's realistic to expect yourself to be anxiety-free. Anyway, why are fun and stress mutually exclusive? They often go together in important undertakings. If you're not having ANY fun, I'd re-evaluate. You sound like you're putting yourself under an enormous amount of pressure. (Maybe you could ease up on the Protestant work ethic a bit? :001_smile:) But I kind of wish the therapist had asked you: OK, at what point would you feel NOT stressed? How much home schooling would you have to do, in order to feel that you were doing a perfectly adequate job? What would your kids need to learn so that you felt you'd done your job right? And then there are a string of questions that follow this...When would you feel that you've been a good enough wife? When is your house clean enough...? You get the idea. I've been there and done that. It's exhausting. For me, right now it takes the form: When have you covered the History of the World in ENOUGH detail? The answer is: Never. No job I could ever do would match up to the standard I have in my mind. Anxiety is so often unconnected with what we're actually doing; it's connected with some perfect ideal we've set up for ourselves, one that can never be reached by any human being at any time. I don't know if any of this makes sense to you. And I don't know you, or your therapist. But if you were one of my close friends, telling me this, I'd say: I think you need to find a therapist who understands grace. Otherwise, "having fun" becomes one more of those impossible standards you set up for yourself, and you'll collapse under its weight. SWB

I would definitely start him in FLL 3. He can probably go through it in less than a year, but it lays valuable groundwork for FLL 4. Sorry about the delay in answering your email--I expect the office sent that one on to my mother for her opinion, and she came back from her last convention with a bad cold, so she's a little behind. SWB

No, you can start right in with a second-grader. if the child can copy well and doesn't struggle too much with the physical act of writing, start with Level 2; if not, start with Level 1. WWE can be used with any grammar program, but the copywork and dictation exercises do cover grammatical elements in the same order that they are covered in FLL. SWB

My daughter is 5 and she is reading three letter words. Her hand coordination is not completely where I would think it would be at this point. She has a hard time still forming letters correctly. This strikes me as very normal for a five-year-old, so you shouldn't necessarily factor this into your concerns as you plan for the future. We have been working loosley this year. We have completed the K Saxon math program already. I purchased the Ordinary Parents Guide To Reading and I am doing remedial work with my 3rd grader and am blowing through the first part of the book pretty quickly with my 5 year old. I also purchased FLL at convention and am wondering if I should wait to start my daughter on those lessons until half way through OPG. it seems that since most of the lessons are oral, it would be a piece fo cake for her to do. She sounds completely ready to start FLL1. Go for it. I am not thinking she is ready for the Writing With Ease book yet since she is still struggling with writing letters correctly on lined paper. Would it be better to wait and use the Writing With Ease along side the FLL. I don't want to hold her back, yet I don't wan to be in a rush either. She won't be 6 until February and is very different than all six of my other boys. I would have never considered starting them on FLL at 5 years of age. Yeah. Girls are fun, particularly after boys. :001_smile: You're right that she's not ready for WWE yet, but you don't have to do the two simultaneously; you can start FLL now and WWE next year, and she'll be in great shape. (It's good to do FLL either before or simultaneously with WWE, but you don't have to do both of them at exactly the same time. I also have a question about my 8 year old. We are still working on reading fluency. He has been a very slow and labored reader. Since purchasing OPG, he has improved in his reading skills by leaps and bounds! I am hoping to finish the OPG this summer. He will be 9 by August and we technically have him as a third grader. I purchased the FLL 3 for him and he has never had the FLL 1 and 2. After looking at the content in level 3, there was no doubt in my mind he was ready for that level. As far at writing is concerned, I am not sure where to start though. He does not like to write and has not used a writing program yet. He has beautiful handwriiting, but complains when I give him a paragraph to copy. He is not a good speller, but is making great improvements since we started using All About Spelling. After looking at the examples of the Writing With Ease lessons level 1 and 2, it seemed as though they appeared they would be too easy for my almost 9 year old. He does pretty good writing from dictaion, yet he mispells words a lot. He is improving every day though! Where do I begin with a writing program for him? I own IEW's Structure and Style program, but I have not listened to it. I also am somewhat drawn to Writing Strands, but I still am not sure what level I would start my son at. Level one looks too easy, but level 2 might be the right one. We are getting ready to purchase Tapestry of Grace and a writing handbook comes wth the program. They say it is an excellent book, but I am not sure how thorough the writing instruction is. I would appreciate any wise advice you can give me. Thank you! If I were you, I'd start him on WWE, level 2. Even if the first exercises are too easy for him, he'll build valuable skills and confidence, and they grow more difficult as the year goes on. I'd go on to do WWE levels 3 and 4 as well, and then go on to either IEW or Writing Strands 4. IEW would DEFINITELY be too much for him right now. Hope this helps. (Thanks for the bump, training5!) SWB

I'm sure that's not helping....but in fact I got disinvited the year BEFORE. There's a basic disconnect between HEAV and me in philosophy, I think. But I wish they'd invite my mother back..she really just wants to help parents educate their children. (I do too. But there are some things I feel strongly about that Mom is less concerned with, as long as she can teach kids to read and give mothers the tools they need. Teaching is her passion; she is a real gift to the home school community.) SWB

Heather, If I thought I'd ever be invited back, I'd be so tempted. Although I'm not sure that black leather will suit me, four babies down the road... SWB

I am LAUGHING out loud and my husband wants to know why. Oh, golly, I almost wish you guys WOULD do that. We could put it on youtube. SWB

DARN IT, there goes my convention outfit. OK, back to bluefly.com... SWB

You know, we only called it that because that's what so many of YOU called the boards. I thought it was funny. Honest. I don't really think I'm an overmind, either. SWB