I owned and moderated a classical self-education group on Yahoo a few years ago. We read and discussed “How to Read a Book,†“The Art of Deception,†some Plato, and if I remember correctly, we also studied some grammar using the Abeka book (this was all before TWEM came out). We had assigned weekly readings, discussions, threads on the best materials/curricula for adults, etc. After a while, I had to close the group because of other commitments. I’m wondering if there is a group like that currently active. If not, do you think there’s enough interest to start one?

I'm a reformed night-owl. When I was younger, I would go to sleep at 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. and get up whenever the children dragged me out of bed. When my kids were in public school, I would get up in the morning, take them to school and go back to bed until 11:00 a.m. or 12:00 -- I was one cranky mom! Now I go to bed at 10:30 and am asleep by 11:00. Wake up time for me is 6:00 a.m. I exercise, shower, get dressed and read my Bible before I wake dgd up at 7:00 a.m. to start our day. Dgd goes upstairs at 8:30 p.m. for bath, bed-time story and prayer, and she's asleep by 9:00. This gives me 1 1/2 hours in the evening, an hour in the morning and one hour in the afternoon (while dgd naps) to myself -- and I need this time! I've found that I function a lot better and I'm in a much better mood if I have these hours to myself, than if I slept an extra two or three hours at night.

I would say borrow it from the library first to make sure you want to use it with your kids. I've owned my copy for years and used it with all my children (I also own Drawing With Older Children and Teens), but the book is not for everybody. Some people say it's too hard to follow, or that the 'lessons' are too vague. If you do decide to use it, then you want to buy your own copy -- I doubt your library would like it if you kept theirs for a year, and you want to take your time with it! :tongue_smilie: There are some free lessons online for this book, which I found make it more 'user friendly.' IHTH, Aileen

Thank you for sharing this...what a great resource! :thumbup:

:iagree: and couldn't have said it better even if I tried. :001_smile:

Not a 'copybook,' but I like the copywork pages at Notebooking Pages . They have a few free ones (both primary-lined and regular) in the 'Free Resources' section, or you can buy themed sets. I print them out and put them in a three-ring binder. IHTH, Aileen

Sadly, I've had a lot of experience with death, and have attended the funerals of a few friends and family members who had autopsies performed. They all had open caskets, and there were no visible signs of the autopsy – if I hadn't known that an autopsy was performed, I probably wouldn't have been able to tell – so you and your relatives should have nothing to worry about in that regard. There are only two incisions done during the autopsy, one is the Y incision to the front of the body (which will be covered by clothing), and the other is to the back of the head to access the brain (I won't give you the details because I find them quite gruesome, but once the procedure is finished, everything will be put back the way it was and there'll be no visible evidence on the front of the head/the face). I'm so very sorry for your loss... you and yours are in my prayers.:grouphug:

I think it's a personal choice. I've always used the BF History Guides as just that – guides – not as a scripted, step-by-step curriculum. This year I'm using American History for Primary grades with my 6yo dgd, (we obviously don't follow the WTM history cycle). If you want to emphasize the providential aspect of American History, you'll want to use America's Providential History – I've chosen to leave it out. We're also skipping The Light and the Glory. I agree with Ellie that the Story Hour CD's are not necessary (this year is just an introduction to American History; we really don't need to cover all the topics at this point, and the books alone provide more than adequate information IMO) but I've chosen to use them as an introduction for dgd to the concept of audio books, which we've never used, (usually I read aloud to her). I'm also skipping Squanto, Friend of the Pilgrims because the guide schedules it at the same time as Stories of the Pilgrims and The Landing of the Pilgrims, and I feel that's too many books for us to read at once, considering that we'll also be using living books for all our other subjects. (We'll be reading Squanto, Friend of the Pilgrims the next time we study this time-period of American History, probably in year 4). I'm also adding a few books by Betsy Maestro as a sort of 'spine' to tie it all together and provide background information for some of the books. The BF guides are actually very adaptable, it all depends on how much time you want to spend tweaking them and how deeply you want to delve into some topics of history at this point. IHTH, Aileen

My guess is that it is an error. I can't get in either. :001_unsure:

You could try a damp wool cloth and baking soda. (Sprikle the baking soda on the desk and then scrub with the cloth). That's how I used to get crayon marks off the walls when my kids were little.

I too have been following this story and thinking about it a lot. You're right, some things don't add up. There's a slight possibility that the blood samples were mixed up in the lab, but wouldn't the M.E. have also looked for other possible physical causes of her behavior rather than relying solely on the toxicology reports that are not immediately available anyway? I know that the husband said she had some medical conditions, but I haven't heard anything about the autopsy showing any kind of illness or condition that might have been a contributing factor to the accident, (such as bleeding in the brain, abnormal glucose levels, etc.). Also, what about the alcohol in her stomach contents? Did the lab mix up her blood/tissue samples and the stomach contents? I don't know a lot about forensic science, but it seems to me like a lot of people would have to be very incompetent in order to 1) mix up the blood samples 2)mix up the stomach contents and 3) miss any evidence of a medical condition that might have caused the accident! One thing that strikes me as odd is that phone call to her brother. She obviously knew that something was wrong, and had enough time and presence of mind to call someone on the phone. If she knew she was feeling ill, and she had small children in the car, why not pull over and call an ambulance or the police, or just stay put until a relative could come and get her... unless she had something to hide? Now, I can't rightfully step into someone else's shoes – maybe she felt better and thought she could make it home, and then suddenly got worse while she was driving. I think I personally wouldn't chance it, specially with children in the car, but who knows how other people think. As far as the husband is concerned, denial is not uncommon in the families of people with substance abuse problems. At this point, for him to admit that he even suspected that she might have had a substance abuse problem, or that she had been drinking and doing drugs that day, and he did nothing about it for whatever reason, would mean taking on at least partial responsibility for the tragedy. There's another even more sinister possibility. If she had been drinking and smoking marijuana with her husband before she got in that car with the children, there might be legal implications for him, certainly wrongful death liability to the families of the other victims involved in the accident. All this to say, I just don't know. The way I see it, either 1)The M.E. and the lab really messed up on the autopsy. 2) She was an alcoholic and drug user and no one knew, or 3) Her husband/family knew and are now trying to protect themselves by denying any knowledge. In any case, I really feel for the child that survived the accident, as well as the families of the other victims who lost their lives.

I think you're talking about “inspirational subjects†and “disciplinary subjects.†Inspirational subjects are those which are “content based,†meaning that they require the mastery of content, such as: bible, composer study, history, nature study/science, picture study, poetry, and literature/read aloud. Disciplinary subjects are those that are “skilled based,†(subjects that require the development of skills), such as: Arithmetic/Mathematics, art, geography, handwriting, phonics/reading instruction, recitation, singing, grammar/composition, and foreign language. CM believed that alternating these subjects provided a “balance of effort and rest†for the student and enlivened the curriculum. I agree. :) IHTH, Aileen

As soon as you mentioned that the pain had spread from your shoulder to deep in your bicep, my immediate thought was tendinitis. I had it last summer and it feels just like what you describe. Tendinitis is an inflammation of the tendons and ligaments, usually caused by the stress of repetitive movement. It's not like a regular injury, where you feel something tear or snap, and then the pain starts. I had been painting my house and scrubbing carpet glue from my wood floors in the days prior to the onset of the pain, but I didn't make the connection at first because I didn't remember injuring myself, and the pain started sometime during the night while I was sleeping, not while I was working. At first I thought I had pulled a muscle without realizing it, or I had 'slept wrong' or something. By the second night the pain had spread down to my bicep, and two days later I couldn't raise my arm more than two inches without experiencing sharp, shooting pain down my arm. If this is what you have, you do need to go to the doctor and I suggest you don't wait too long. I waited a week and by the time I got to the doctor, calcium deposits had started to build around the ligaments in my shoulder. I was treated with oral steroids, a heating pad and ibuprofen for the pain. I was better in a couple of days and I haven't had any trouble with my shoulder since, but if left untreated, acute tendinitis can become chronic. I would have a doctor look at it in any case. Pain in your arm sever enough to keep you up at night is just not normal! I hope it isn't anything too bad and that you feel better soon. :)

I plan to use both Pre-level 1 Chemistry and Pre-level 1 Biology this year with my 6yo dgd. I think an entire year of Chemistry is too much at the elementary level. The courses are only 11-12 weeks each, but I plan to stretch them out by adding extra reading and experiments on the topics covered. We'll be studying Earth Science and Astronomy the following year, but I'm not sure yet which materials we'll be using for that. :confused:

There are several methods that advocate waiting until the child is older to begin formal education, but as far as I know, they all advise that the parents should read aloud to the children from an early age, in order for the children to develop vocabulary and thinking skills. So I think read-alouds for all the children and oral narration for the older two would be a good place to start. Since none of them have an educational foundation, they obviously all have to start at the beginning, but my suggestion would be to whenever possible use an ungraded curriculum, at least for the oldest. It can sometimes be discouraging for older students when they have to use materials that are clearly labeled/designed for someone much younger. Ambleside Online is an ungraded curriculum and most people use the books in Year 1 as read-alouds, so the 9yo could start there, and there's a Year 0 reading list for the 5yo. The 6yo could do either Year 0, or Year 1 along with the 9yo, depending on his interest and level of readiness. For the 9yo I would recommend Phonics Pathways because it's geared toward all age groups (even adults), so I don't think it would seem 'babyish' to a 9yo, like other phonics programs geared toward younger children might. Math-U-See is an ungraded math curriculum, and I believe they have placement tests right at their website. The students begin at the level where they place and work through the program at their own pace, so while the 6 and 9yo may place at the same level, the 9yo could conceivably move faster through the levels (I've seen that happen with students who start later). I hope you find some of this information useful. :001_smile: Blessings, Aileen

Phonics takes the most time right now because dgd is just learning to read and print her letters. Math is my big expense (we use Saxon). Everything else is pretty cheap thanks to the swap boards and an amazing public library system. :001_smile: Blessings, Aileen

I'm new to the boards and had't heard about this, but I'm ordering my DVD from Amazon and will join the others as soon as I receive it. How does this work; do we check-in everyday, once a week...? This looks like it's going to be painful. :ack2:

Thank you, everyone, for all your thoughtful and informative responses. What first attracted me to this system is that it is based on Biblical principles, it's designed specifically for homeschoolers, and it includes a 'kit' to put it all together, not just a 'how to' manual, but after reading and carefully considering all of your responses, I think Jane is right – it's not what I'm looking for. It seems to be geared more toward large families with a lot of children and individual schedules to juggle, and it's a little bit more detailed than what we need. I thought that the 'kit' would make putting the whole thing together a cinch and would save me loads of time, but it sounds from the responses like putting the kit together is a large project in and of itself! :confused: Just today I found a stack of household planning forms (pre-made grocery lists, menu planners, lesson planners, weekly calendars, etc.) that I downloaded from donnayoung.org a long time ago! I think it's just a matter of me sitting down and making a list of everything that needs to be done, and assigning each task a day and a time. I used to have a pretty well laid-out daily schedule and system back when my kids were little, but once they grew up and moved away I just let it go. (It wasn't necessary with just dh and I at home). Now with our little granddaughter moving in and me starting to homeschool again, I'm just having a hard time getting back into the swing of things. Again, thank you, everyone, for your invaluable help and insight. God Bless. Aileen

This is discouraging, but good to know. Maybe this program is not what I'm looking for. Thank you for sharing your insight. :)

I'm interested in getting some feedback from people who have used this system, whether or not it worked. I need something that is easy to put together and is already all laid out for me; I don't want to spend a lot of time planning, filling out forms/spreadsheets, organizing pages, creating charts, etc. (I tend to get caught up in all the planning, rather than the actual doing). :rolleyes: Also, did you find it inspirational/motivational? Like with most people, I think the hardest part for me is not the planning, but the implementation. I can have all the charts, lists, stickers in the world, but if I don't feel motivated to use them... well. Does it include plans for menus, budgets, house-cleaning, etc., not just homeschooling plans and chores? I only have one child living at home (a 6yo granddaughter) so creating lesson plans and scheduling her chores is not a great hassle, it's getting everything else done and organized without feeling frazzled that is proving to be a challenge. I'd really appreciate everyone's input and suggestions. TIA, Aileen

I read your post a couple of times and mulled it over for a while to make sure I understood where you were coming from. It sounds to me like you don't want your children to miss out on anything, and as a consequence you're piling on too much, (not to mention spending a lot of money). IMO, if you tend to follow a more CM style, love having everything planned for you, and your children enjoy reading/being read to, then Sonlight is the way to go. My question to you is, if you feel that Sonlight in itself is 'too much' and it takes you too long to complete, why are you supplementing/adding on more materials?! I can understand the need to have your children experience all the great books/materials out there. (You should have seen my children's reading lists when I first started homeschooling; it was more than any child could read in three years, let alone one)! But at some point you have to say 'we only have this much time, so this is what we're going to do this year.' (There's always next year, and the one after, and many more to come after that). So, what I would do is: keep the Sonlight Core you already have; sell the MFW's books you bought as a 'supplement' and the SOTW, and use the money you get for those to get the rest of your materials for science, handwriting and art. There are a lot of hands-on activities that you can buy individually throughout the course of the year to supplement your History studies here and there. (I'm sure many people on these boards have some wonderful suggestions). You can always see how it goes this year, and you'll have more time to decide and plan if you want a change of curriculum for next year. At least that's what I would do. I've discovered that, for me, things work out better if I stick with my initial plan and resist temptation at all costs – it's too easy for me to get distracted by all the shiny books/curricula out there. :lol: IHTH, Aileen

Wow, that is harsh! I can see why you would feel disheartened. :grouphug: I wouldn't say that the method is 'unrealistic,' but it has been my experience that it is rigorous and demanding, both for the students and the parents/teachers. Because of this, the method has developed a reputation for having a high incidence of 'burnout.' The WTM classical method was the first method I used when I started homeschooling – on paper it looked perfect and like everything I've ever dreamed of. Not a year went by that I didn't start 'tweaking' it. The first thing to go was the Abeka grammar. The science rotation went next. Latin proved to be more trouble than it was worth, (we opted for studying Latin and Greek roots, as well as Latin phrases commonly used in the English language)... the list goes on. At the same time, I was reading a lot about other methods and had run across Charlotte Mason. I started to incorporate some of her philosophy into our school and by the end had all but completely dropped the classical approach and was using strictly CM. That said, IMO, the homeschoolers to whom you refer in your post are presumptuous, ignorant, just plain rude and hopefully not representative of the general homeschooling community. Whatever happened to respecting other people's opinions/choices even if they differ from our own? Anyone who's been actively homeschooling for more than five minutes should know that no one method fits the needs of all families, and conversely, just because a method didn't work in one household it doesn't mean that it won't work in another – no one can predict what will or will not work for another family. The classical method is 'doable'... I know because a lot of people use it. My only advice to you would be to give it a try, but be prepared and don't get discouraged if some aspects of it don't seem to workout the way you planned. And more importantly, don't feel that you have to defend your choices to other homeschoolers – they might have been homeschooling longer than you have and know what works best for them, but you know your child and what's best for the two of you! ;)

Thank you. Will do!

I'll be starting formal lessons with a soon to be 6yo in the fall. I've chosen Saxon as our program for math, but I'm not sure if I should start with K or Math 1. We didn't do any formal Pre-school or Kindergarten, just some math games, counting, grouping, number recognition, days of the week, etc., all very informal. Is Saxon Math K a prerequisite for Saxon Math 1?