To Take AP Physics or Not...

[cuckoomamma]

Dd will be a senior next year and has taken AP Environmental, AP Bio and is taking AP Chem this year.  She has gotten 5's on her exams and A's in the classes. She's very bright and a hard worker, but STEM is not her love.  We're discussing classes for next year, and I'd like some advice regarding AP Physics.  

 

She would like to take AP Physics because she says that she'd like to have taken all the math and science that she could have and then have the choice not to pursue it in college, rather than not take AP Physics and then feel as if maybe she couldn't have handled the rigor of it, and feel afraid to tackle it in college.  Someone told her that AP Physics is the most difficult of all the APs.  Although she is getting an A in AP Chem this year, she isn't comfortable with the material the way that she'd like to be.  This is her first pass at Chem, so I'm sure it's quite a lot to process all at once. That being said, if AP Physics is more difficult, I'm not sure it's worth efforts that she could place towards something she enjoys more. 

 

Although she isn't by nature drawn to STEM fields, we've talked about the possibility of her choosing a field in medicine because she would enjoy working with patients.  Neither of us is very sure of the likelihood of this, but she's not wanted to cut off her options.

 

So, although I know this is difficult to answer, how tough is AP Physics?  Looking at PAH,  I see that she has the option of taking Mechanics as a full year course.  She will have completed ten APs by the end of this year and be taking several next year.  I would like her to enjoy senior year, and I'm afraid AP Physics will push it over the edge.  On the other hand, she'll also have to continue to show rigor and I'm not sure if a regular Physics class, Anatomy or Forensics will be enough.  DE is not an option for us because of cost.

 

I took Physics for Poets in college, so I'm really not sure how to judge the rigor.

 

Thanks!

[Julie of KY]

I certainly wouldn't take AP Physics just for it to look good on a transcript. Has she had physics yet?

 

To succeed in AP physics it is helpful to have a physics background and necessary to have a background in calculus.

 

AP Physics is "harder" than AP Chem from the standpoint that it requires harder math, however it is certainly easier than chem for my math loving boys. Chem has more memorization. 

 

 

[cuckoomamma]

She hasn't had any physics yet and will be taking AP Calculus at the same time.  

 

9th grade AP Environmental

10th AP Bio

11th AP Chem

12th ?

 

 

[wapiti]

My understanding is that it's not ideal to apply to selective colleges without any physics - some level of physics is expected, but it doesn't have to be AP.

 

I think AP Physics 1 is just honors-level physics, but I'm not entirely clear on that.  AP Physics 1 has the lowest pass rate of any AP exam, but does the low pass rate on the exam say much about how a kid will perform in a particular class?  She wouldn't need to even take the exam, which would occur at the end of her senior year.

 

FWIW, my junior (who attends B&M school) did not like honors chem but is loving AP Physics 1.  I don't think loving is too strong a word in this case.  I imagine that AP Physics C is a harder class than AP Physics 1; we will find out in the fall :)

Edited February 16, 2018 by wapiti

[Arcadia]

Whether your child should take AP Physics is really up to her. We waited for my older boy’s AP Calculus BC exam result and SAT Physics subject test result to be out before registering for PAH AP Physics C. He is only doing AP Chemistry and AP Physics this year so much lighter load than your daughter. He has no interest in biology so that is the lab science we are skipping. He can probably write an essay on why he does not want to study biology as an academic subject when it comes to college application time, he is that passionate about not taking biology.

 

Whether AP Chemistry or AP Physics is harder depends on the child. My kid feels he forgets and has to recall more for AP Chemistry homework ,tests and labs, than he does for AP Physics C homework, tests and labs. My younger boy definitely thinks Physics is lots easier than Chemistry on any given day.

 

AP Physics 1 has the lowest pass rate of any AP exam, but does the low pass rate on the exam say much about how a kid will perform in a particular class?

...

I imagine that AP Physics C is a harder class than AP Physics 1; we will find out in the fall :)

AP Physics 1 exam started in 2015. Last year’s students and teachers would only have 2015 and 2016 exams to figure out how to maximize their scores on exam day.

 

AP Physics C exams has been around since at least 1998 because CollegeBoard has the FRQs and scoring guidelines from 1998 to 2017 posted on their website. The teachers would all be seasoned in the subject material and some might have even taken the exams themselves as students.

 

Also if a public school student isn’t ready for AP Physics C but the school wants to boost up their AP participation rate, they might just put the students in AP Physics 1 instead of honors physics. So nothing much can be deduced about the lower pass rate of AP Physics 1 compared to AP Physics 2 and AP Physics C. My public high school has AP Physics 1 as a prerequisite for AP Physics 2, but there is no prerequisite for AP Physics 1.

[regentrude]

AP Physics 1+2 are algebra based and a good level for a high school student who has solid mastery of algebra and trig. It won't give any college credit towards engineering and most science majors, but for many colleges, life science majors would only be required to take algebra based physics.

 

The drawback is that since the restructuring it's a two year sequence. I see little point in students not interested in physics taking two years of it, and those students will more likely take the calc based physics anyway. Only taking the first year means only mechanics.

 

For a student interested in a  one year physics course, I would simply do one semester of mechanics and one semester of e&m and ignore the AP exams altogether.

[regentrude]

 AP Physics 1 has the lowest pass rate of any AP exam, but does the low pass rate on the exam say much about how a kid will perform in a particular class? 

 

 

How much of this is self selection of students?

Strong physics students with an interest in physics, science and engineering are unlikely to take the AP Phys1 exam because it will not get them credit towards their major, since that requires calculus based physics. The strong student would not be in the student population taking the exam at all.

 

I am completely baffled who, after the restructuring, would take two years of algebra based physics and do the AP1+2 exams. The students whose majors require algebra based physics have to take one year of it; few will be taking two high school years to complete what one year of college would do.

 

I think the restructuring was completely misguided and useless.

[snowbeltmom]

I would not attempt AP Physics C without having a calculus background. I would look into the honors physics option with Derek Owens. This course follows the old AP Physics B content and will provide your daughter with a solid physics background should she decide to take additional classes in college.

[klmama]

A friend's ds took the AP physics 1 exam. As regentrude says, it didn't help him toward his physics major, credit-wise. However, ithe course he took did give him a great foundation for his first required college physics class. He was the top student and received a departmental scholarship for the next semester that was renewable if he kept up his grades.

 

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[Kathy in Richmond]

I would not attempt AP Physics C without having a calculus background. I would look into the honors physics option with Derek Owens. This course follows the old AP Physics B content and will provide your daughter with a solid physics background should she decide to take additional classes in college.

 

I totally agree with this. Jumping into calc-based physics without a prior physics background AND concurrently with learning calculus with a kid who doesn't love STEM is most likely too much.

 

If you want to self study the old AP Physics B material without taking an online course, you could buy an older copy of Giancoli (5th or 6th edition) and follow this syllabus.  It aligns with the old Physics B exam, and it also is great prep for the SAT 2 physics test.

 

We had a fun & successful year doing this with a 10th grader who was concurrently in Calc BC. He went on to take the C courses the following year.

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Kathy in Richmond

[cuckoomamma]

She's going into her senior year, so taking Physics 1 and 2 won't work - we only have one year to work with, unfortunately.

 

It also sounds like it would be very difficult for her to take Physics C without having completed Calc already. Best case scenario with this would be to audit it in case it all goes south.  If it were her junior year I would be more inclined, but I don't want her senior year to involve a huge struggle with a subject that isn't her love.

 

I wouldn't be able to help her self study the Physics B material, and while my husband has good intentions, he barely helps now, so she would be on her own.  

 

That leaves us with Physics 1 or Derek Owens Physics, correct?  We aren't concerned with her getting credit in college.  We figure that she's either going to a selective school which won't give her credit for APs or surprising all of us and switching to a STEM major and would likely have to repeat all the sciences anyway. The last case, and maybe most likely, is a non-STEM major at a school which gives her credit. However, we didn't choose APs primarily for the credit aspect.  If it happens, great. If not, we're okay with that and she has several others. We're trying to keep most of the doors open for her while she figures out what she wants to do.

 

In terms of preparation for college if she decided on a STEM major which would be the best prep? In terms of a selective school which would be preferred by their admissions dept?

 

 

 

 

[wapiti]

How much of this is self selection of students?

Strong physics students with an interest in physics, science and engineering are unlikely to take the AP Phys1 exam because it will not get them credit towards their major, since that requires calculus based physics. The strong student would not be in the student population taking the exam at all.

 

I am completely baffled who, after the restructuring, would take two years of algebra based physics and do the AP1+2 exams. The students whose majors require algebra based physics have to take one year of it; few will be taking two high school years to complete what one year of college would do.

 

I think the restructuring was completely misguided and useless.

 

At dd's high school, AP 1 replaced the honors physics offering and became the prerequisite to AP C.  I'm under the impression that this is common among high schools.  My dd will be taking the AP 1 exam this spring and then the AP C (both mech and E&M) course in the fall.  (The college credit differences are not important to her at all.)

 

I'm not familiar with the old structure, but the new structure is annoying in that it doesn't correspond to the SAT2 subject test.  Her AP 1 class is year-long and her school does not offer AP 2.  She will not have had enough topic coverage to take the SAT2 physics test unless she were to self-study.

 

I would not attempt AP Physics C without having a calculus background.

 

Last fall, my dd saw some very bright, ivy-aiming friends really struggle in the beginning of the C course with concurrent calc, despite all kinds of extra hours with the physics teacher.  I'm so glad she was able to witness that - she is planning to learn calc 1 over the summer to be ready for C in the fall.

 

A friend's ds took the AP physics 1 exam. As regentrude says, it didn't help him toward his physics major, credit-wise. However, ithe course he took did give him a great foundation for his first required college physics class. He was the top student and received a departmental scholarship for the next semester that was renewable if he kept up his grades.

 

This is encouraging!  My dd has been enjoying the AP 1 course very much - right now it's her favorite class.  She says the math is easy peasy but she seems well challenged by everything else.  Lots and lots of problem solving.

[snowbeltmom]

At dd's high school, AP 1 replaced the honors physics offering and became the prerequisite to AP C.  I'm under the impression that this is common among high schools.  My dd will be taking the AP 1 exam this spring and then the AP C (both mech and E&M) course in the fall.  (The college credit differences are not important to her at all.)

 

 

I'm not familiar with the old structure, but the new structure is annoying in that it doesn't correspond to the SAT2 subject test.  Her AP 1 class is year-long and her school does not offer AP 2.  She will not have had enough topic coverage to take the SAT2 physics test unless she were to self-study.

 

 

 

Last fall, my dd saw some very bright, ivy-aiming friends really struggle in the beginning of the C course with concurrent calc, despite all kinds of extra hours with the physics teacher.  I'm so glad she was able to witness that - she is planning to learn calc 1 over the summer to be ready for C in the fall.

 

 

This is encouraging!  My dd has been enjoying the AP 1 course very much - right now it's her favorite class.  She says the math is easy peasy but she seems well challenged by everything else.  Lots and lots of problem solving.

The public schools in my area do not offer AP Physics C nor the AP Physics 2 course. If the schools offer an AP Physics option, the only option is the AP Physics I, which imo, is a sub-par option when compared to the AP Physic B option that the kids used to have.