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HALCYON WE NEED YOUR HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#1 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:46 AM

Your very helpful Pre-Algebra thread started in 2012 got trapped inside my private chat group for parents of struggling learners.  There have been several threads that did.  Maybe more than we realize.  It appears the glitch is tied to the tags.  I was unable to PM you but I am going to send you an invitation to join my private chat group.  Once you accept the invitation you should have access to that thread.  If you delete the tags it SHOULD then be restored to accessibility for the general populace.  People are asking and I can't help them.  I have no control over the thread itself.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

JC


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#2 MarkT

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 11:35 AM

google found this

http://forums.welltr...-master-thread/

 

maybe Google has them cached

 



#3 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:37 PM

Possibly.  That would help with older threads.  I don't know about new ones.  Such a weird issue.



#4 katilac

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 08:44 PM

You might want to send her a PM. 



#5 Emerald Stoker

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:42 PM

Doesn't she live in Florida?



#6 dereksurfs

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 11:26 AM

Wow, talk about a throwback back in time!  :D  Is that the old Pre-Algebra Fence Straddlers Master Thread many of us participated in back in the day? A lot has changed for many families since then though the struggles are no less real today. We do have more resources (curriculum, vendors, etc...) now. So it might be good to start a new one - a revised Version II.  

 

ETA: Wait, I just clicked on the link MarkT posted and it worked fine. It comes up in the Logic Stage & Middle Grade Challenges sub forum. Are you speaking of a different one than this started in 2012? Have you tried sending her a PM?


Edited by dereksurfs, 10 September 2017 - 11:40 AM.

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#7 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:56 PM

1.  Halcyon cannot receive PMs (I already tried, thus the giant letters post here )

2.  Yes the old thread referred to as the Fence Straddler thread was one of the threads affected, AFAIK.  The link posted up thread apparently works for those NOT in the private chat group but for many they can't access it through normal ways.

3.  I agree starting a new thread with updated info sounds great.  Feel free to do so.  I think a lot of people would probably appreciate an update from anyone who posted in the original thread.

4.  I am not here very much at the moment so if I don't respond and someone needs me to, PM me.  I've got a lot going on at home and am trying to tread water right now.  This is taking a low priority.  Sorry everyone.  Hope this glitch goes away.



#8 dereksurfs

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 11:07 PM

1.  Halcyon cannot receive PMs (I already tried, thus the giant letters post here )

2.  Yes the old thread referred to as the Fence Straddler thread was one of the threads affected, AFAIK.  The link posted up thread apparently works for those NOT in the private chat group but for many they can't access it through normal ways.

3.  I agree starting a new thread with updated info sounds great.  Feel free to do so.  I think a lot of people would probably appreciate an update from anyone who posted in the original thread.

4.  I am not here very much at the moment so if I don't respond and someone needs me to, PM me.  I've got a lot going on at home and am trying to tread water right now.  This is taking a low priority.  Sorry everyone.  Hope this glitch goes away.

 

That's very strange that some can't simply click on a forum link and get through. I've never heard of one chat group being blocked from accessing other parts of the forum. Are you saying this is happening to you as well? If I was the forum administrator, which I'm not, I'd almost have to see it to believe it to rule out pilot error. :tongue_smilie: But I'm sure stranger things have happened. 

 

I haven't been participating as much either. I just dropped in today to see what's going on lately. We're not really struggling with Pre-A anymore. Derek Owens has been working well for our younger ones without issue.

 

BTW, if this really is happening for some there is a pretty easy workaround if they simply want to read the thread - just logout and click the link. I just tried it and it works! Pre-Algebra Fence Straddlers Master Thread


Edited by dereksurfs, 10 September 2017 - 11:25 PM.


#9 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 08:19 AM

That's very strange that some can't simply click on a forum link and get through. I've never heard of one chat group being blocked from accessing other parts of the forum. Are you saying this is happening to you as well? If I was the forum administrator, which I'm not, I'd almost have to see it to believe it to rule out pilot error. :tongue_smilie: But I'm sure stranger things have happened. 

 

I haven't been participating as much either. I just dropped in today to see what's going on lately. We're not really struggling with Pre-A anymore. Derek Owens has been working well for our younger ones without issue.

 

BTW, if this really is happening for some there is a pretty easy workaround if they simply want to read the thread - just logout and click the link. I just tried it and it works! Pre-Algebra Fence Straddlers Master Thread

Thanks for your help.  I do want to clarify some things since you seem to be misunderstanding what actually happened (understandably so, since this is taking place across multiple threads in multiple sub-forums and has been an issue for weeks now and has taken time to tweak out).  

 

A few weeks ago the very popular and useful pinned High School Math thread was suddenly no longer accessible.  Turns out it had somehow gotten "trapped" and was only available to people that are member of a private chat group I started in support of parents of kids in Middle School and High School that are seriously struggling (beyond just needing a bit of extra instruction in fractions for example).  Quark was the originator of that pinned High School Math thread.  She no longer had access either.  No one, not Quark or me or anyone in my group had done anything.  It was an error through the WTM system.

 

After doing a bit of digging and Quark and I and others including some moderators trying to figure it out it seems that the system somehow started tying certain specific "tags" to my private chat group and linking threads with those tags to ONLY my private chat group.  We thought it was only the one thread at first.  In my chat group we don't see that thread or any other that is affected.  We didn't even know it was happening until someone realized why I could still access the thread and others couldn't.  I could still see it because I was a member of that private group.  It just meant that we were the only ones that could actually access it if we wanted to look something up.  

 

Over the course of several days we found out more than one thread had been "trapped" that way and WTM was not responding to our requests for help.  After I gave Quark access to my chat group so she could have access to her thread,  she deleted the tags on that thread and suddenly the thread was free again.  Accessible to anyone.  I then tried to contact any OP of a thread that I had been informed was trapped by this glitch so they could become a member of my group, delete their tags, and free up their thread.  Unfortunately, Halcyon isn't around much anymore and is no longer receiving PMs (I assume her box is full).  I posted here and invited her into my private chat group so that she could delete her tags and free up the old thread.  She just hasn't been back yet to do so.

 

We now know that logging out of WTM and accessing threads that have been trapped is still possible but it would be nice if the glitch were addressed directly and it would also be nice if the threads were completely free of my chat group and no new ones got trapped.  This was definitely not pilot error.  There is a glitch in the system.



#10 dereksurfs

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 07:48 PM

Ah ok, it sounds like tags were flagged incorrectly marking certain threads as private which are not. I'm glad others can log out and still see them now. As a software engineer I always have to ask the question of pilot error first before assuming something is broken in the system. If that's not it and things are actually broken (a bug exists) it can sometimes take a long time to get them fixed. In this case, its a free forum using third party software most likely operated by non-technical people unless something major comes up. The admins may have little to no time for it. So referencing the threads as 'read only' while logged out at least gives others access. That is probably the best option for those locked out until things get released if they ever do.

 


Edited by dereksurfs, 11 September 2017 - 09:12 PM.

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#11 daijobu

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:23 PM

That's very strange that some can't simply click on a forum link and get through. I've never heard of one chat group being blocked from accessing other parts of the forum. Are you saying this is happening to you as well? 

 

This happened to me about a year ago.  It wasn't a pinned thread, but one I had initiated.  I received some generous responses and I needed to find that list of resources again, but the entire thread that I had created was off limits to me.  It was now the property of a private group--I think for parents of students with learning differences?--and I needed to join the group in order to ever read it again.  

 

I tried every work-around I could think of, including contacting the leader of the private group and Help thread on WTM.  Eventually I came up with something...it might have been finding a cached page on google or something.  It was very frustrating.  


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#12 dereksurfs

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:34 PM

Daijobu, that sounds frustrating especially with a thread you created. Software bugs happen all the time and unfortunately some can persist for years. There is always a chance it could be configuration error in the way private groups are setup and maintained. Basically somewhere in the software there is a filter problem triggering the behavior. This *may* even be a known issue in a bug report. I remember when the forum first changed software its was quirky but seemed to improve over time.



#13 luuknam

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 10:33 PM

Thanks, the pre-algebra thread works again, for whatever reason.


Edited by luuknam, 11 September 2017 - 10:40 PM.


#14 daijobu

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:08 PM

I found my old thread, and it's still not available to me.  

 

http://forums.welltr...rehension-help/

 

"IP.Board Message

You do not have permission to view this forum. In some cases joining this Social Group will give you permission to view this forum."


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#15 dereksurfs

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:35 PM

I found my old thread, and it's still not available to me.  

 

http://forums.welltr...rehension-help/

 

"IP.Board Message

You do not have permission to view this forum. In some cases joining this Social Group will give you permission to view this forum."

 

How strange. Yes, here is what I see when I am logged in with no access:

 

i-nPwSd34-X2.png

 

 

And when I log out I see the thread:

 

 

i-KqXCTHG-X2.png


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#16 dereksurfs

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:42 PM

Notice that even though the URL (link) is exactly the same, when logged in the thread is being erroneously placed under Groups - Moms with kids on the Autism Spectrum rather than Education. That is the bug which is repeatable. I bet if you remove one of those tags like 'reading comprehension' it changes back.


Edited by dereksurfs, 13 September 2017 - 07:43 PM.

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#17 daijobu

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:03 PM

Whoa.  You are totally right.  When I'm logged out I can access the thread!  Weird.  But sadly, when I'm logged out I can't change the tags and when I'm logged in I can't access the thread at all, let alone the tags.  

 

And now I have a new work-around.  


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#18 dereksurfs

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:59 PM

I have one more hypothesis that might be throwing off the forum software. Note that the Private Chat Group uses the same titles for its sub directories if you follow the directory structure down its final branches: 

 

... K-8 Curriculum Board  → Logic Stage & Middle Grade Challenges

 

Because they share the same titles at the lowest level of the branch the software can be mixing them up as opposed to other groups such as: 

 

The Well-Trained Mind Community  → Education  → The Learning Challenges Board

 

Notice how this directory structure shares nothing in common with another. I'm not saying its necessarily bad to use the same exact titles. However it simply makes it easier for software to make a mistake with two duplicate branch directories regardless of their origins. The more dissimilar they are the less likely they will be interpreted as the same. In software terms its viewed as uniqueness and in this case non-unique partial paths to differing sub directories.

 

To test this hypothesis I would change the wording of the directories slightly or move the private groups to a different structure entirely making them more unique.


Edited by dereksurfs, 14 September 2017 - 12:08 AM.

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