2 year great books program for high school

[Vida Winter]

If you had two years to read classics/Shakespeare, which titles would you choose? (must include Dante's Inferno -- I have had a specific request for that.)

[Ethel Mertz]

How many books per year?

[Vida Winter]

How many books per year?

 

 

I hadn't thought about it but I think six per year would be about right.

[merylvdm]

For Shakespeare, I love Macbeth and then Hamlet. 

 

If you are only doing 6 a year you may have to take into account whether you have a son or daughter. For a girl, I would include Pride and Prejudice or Emma - but my boys were not fans.

 

Great Gatsby

 

And then so many ideas come crowding ...  

[Ethel Mertz]

I hadn't thought about it but I think six per year would be about right.

 You might find chapter 27 in the 4th edition of The Well-Trained Mind helpful. SWB says this about the number of books to read: "Try to make a realistic assessment of how many books the student will be able to cover in the course of a year. Eight books is a minimum; twelve is better; eighteen is stellar."

 

If I had to choose 6 per year, for a total of 12, I would choose the following:

 

1. Homer, Iliad and Odyssey. Well, that's technically two, so if I had to choose one of those, I'd choose the Iliad.

 

2. Plato, The Republic.

 

3. Virgil, Aeneid.

 

4. Beowulf.

 

5. Dante. The Inferno.

 

6. Chaucer, The Canterbury Tales. (selections)

 

7. Shakespeare, a play of your choice.

 

8. Jane Austen. Pride and Prejudice.

 

9. Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist.

 

10. Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter.

 

11. Henry David Thoreau, Walden.

 

12. W.E.B. Du Bois, The Souls of Black Folk.

 

[Vida Winter]

 You might find chapter 27 in the 4th edition of The Well-Trained Mind helpful. SWB says this about the number of books to read: "Try to make a realistic assessment of how many books the student will be able to cover in the course of a year. Eight books is a minimum; twelve is better; eighteen is stellar."

 

If I had to choose 6 per year, for a total of 12, I would choose the following:

 

1. Homer, Iliad and Odyssey. Well, that's technically two, so if I had to choose one of those, I'd choose the Iliad.

 

2. Plato, The Republic.

 

3. Virgil, Aeneid.

 

4. Beowulf.

 

5. Dante. The Inferno.

 

6. Chaucer, The Canterbury Tales. (selections)

 

7. Shakespeare, a play of your choice.

 

8. Jane Austen. Pride and Prejudice.

 

9. Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist.

 

10. Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter.

 

11. Henry David Thoreau, Walden.

 

12. W.E.B. Du Bois, The Souls of Black Folk.

 

 

Thank you! I just pulled the six per year out of my head...I think we could do more. Some have already been covered...Iliad, The Scarlet Letter, and we're not finished with The Odyssey.

 

[Vida Winter]

For Shakespeare, I love Macbeth and then Hamlet. 

 

If you are only doing 6 a year you may have to take into account whether you have a son or daughter. For a girl, I would include Pride and Prejudice or Emma - but my boys were not fans.

 

Great Gatsby

 

And then so many ideas come crowding ...  

 

It is for a daughter. She has not been a very enthusiastic reader until now.

[yvonne]

 You might find chapter 27 in the 4th edition of The Well-Trained Mind helpful. SWB says this about the number of books to read: "Try to make a realistic assessment of how many books the student will be able to cover in the course of a year. Eight books is a minimum; twelve is better; eighteen is stellar."

 

 

I always found those numbers odd.  When I've looked at the reading lists for some of the most selective private, college prep high schools, I have never, never seen 12/year, let alone 18.  It is much closer to eight or ten, not including any short stories, etc. 

 

18 books in a 36-week school year would be one book every two weeks. I really cannot imagine a student being able to do much more than a cursory reading of most high school books in just two weeks, then on to the next. Can a good book even sink in in two weeks? How much time does the student have after that to think more extensively about the book, beyond the basic "character, plot, theme,..." questions?   

 

Personally, having been a lit major, I'd opt for depth of analysis over breadth of exposure, but SWB has btdt expertise in teaching lit so I must be missing something. If I ever see her at a conference, this is one of those things I really want to ask her about!

 

I do wonder if quantity is mostly an American thing?

Edited August 8, 2017 by yvonne

[Ethel Mertz]

I always found those numbers odd.  When I've looked at the reading lists for some of the most selective private, college prep high schools, I have never, never seen 12/year, let alone 18.  It is much closer to eight or ten, not including any short stories, etc. 

 

18 books in a 36-week school year would be one book every two weeks. I really cannot imagine a student being able to do much more than a cursory reading of most high school books in just two weeks, then on to the next. Can a good book even sink in in two weeks? How much time does the student have after that to think more extensively about the book, beyond the basic "character, plot, theme,..." questions?   

 

Personally, having been a lit major, I'd opt for depth of analysis over breadth of exposure, but SWB has btdt expertise in teaching lit so I must be missing something. If I ever see her at a conference, this is one of those things I really want to ask her about!

 

I do wonder if quantity is mostly an American thing?

 

Great questions!

[tuesdayschild]

If you are intending to use the books for deeper study, and essay writing,  6-8 bks is a nice number to work with, then perhaps add in other titles in to read - or listen to via audiobook -  appreciate and discuss together.  Because we’re an N.Z.  family our selections may include more  British Lit than a U.S based family might choose.

 

If you’re having trouble whittling down your selections, like we did, Lori’s post,  #15, in this thread http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/168232-what-are-you-top-picks-for-brit-lit-novels/ is very help filled.

 

The selection, beneath, works well in our home....

(ETA: We covered these over a four year reading cycle, not two as your question requested, so you'd want to trim the list even more.)

 

Along with short stories (Twain, du Maupassant, Tolstoy, Forster, Saki, Mansfield, Finney, Lewin)  a few other plays, some poetry, and select speeches/lectures this made for a full but really doable Lit course

• Iliad ~ Homer (Ancient Greece)   or     Odyssey ~ (Ancient  Greece)      not both
• Aeneid ~  (epic Latin Poem)     we chose to go with the audio book and then decided to just discuss it   ;)
• Bede: The Ecclesiastical History of the English People (AD 731) 
• Beowulf (c. 1000)      translated by Seamus, illustrated edition 
• Gawain and the Green Knight (c. 1400)     audio/book
• The Canterbury Tales ~ Chaucer  (c. 1400) selections
• Dante Aligihieri: The Divine Comedy    (Inferno selections)  (1472)
• The King James Bible
• Hamlet   Hamlet (1603) (BBC Production)   Hamlet audio  & whispersync kindle option
• Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead ~ Tom Stoppard   ( 1966)   (slightly edited.  We read this right after Hamlet as they ‘go’ well together)
• Tartuffe ~ Moliere (1669)   play/audio drama production
• A Jane Austen title  (1800’s)
• A title by Charles Dickens  (1800’s)
• Huckleberry Finn ~ Twain   1884  
• Les Miserable ~ Victor Hugo (1862)  we used an abridged version, then attended a musical, and  watched a film
• Anthem ~ Ayn Rand (Dystopian) (1937)
• The Screwtape Letters ~ C.S. Lewis  (1942)  audio book
• Fahrenheit 451 ~ Bradbury  (1953)
• Night ~ Wiesel  (1982)

 

Extra comments:

We purposely chose to go through the next line up together, just for appreciation, and, so we could discuss the books/plays as we went through them. 

• As many Shakespearean plays as we felt like  (BBC productions via Dvd, or youtube)    DDs favourite is King Henry V;  DSs favourites are King Henry IV parts I, 2, 3, and,  King Henry V
• Don Quixote ~ Miguel de Cervantes  (1615)  (audio book)  
• With Jane Austin (Pride and Prejudice) , and, Charles Dickens  (Great Expectations) we chose one title from each author to study and then watched the BBC movies of other works penned by Austin, and listened to audio dramas of various other Dickens titles.
• Jane Eyre ~ Bronte (1847) (audiobook & film)    both DC do NOT like this story ;)
• The Scarlet Letter ~ Hawthorne  (1850)    (audio option)      I wouldn't select this title again
• Jeckyll & Hyde  ~ Stevenson (1886)   (audio book)
• Three Men in a Boat ~ Jerome  (1889)  humour
• Quo Vadis ~   Henryk Sienkiewicz    (1895)   (audio book)
• Animal Farm ~ Orwell   (1945)  (audio book)

We include a casual study of mystery writers from the Golden era too - lots of fun!

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Tuesdays Child

[Bluegoat]

I always found those numbers odd.  When I've looked at the reading lists for some of the most selective private, college prep high schools, I have never, never seen 12/year, let alone 18.  It is much closer to eight or ten, not including any short stories, etc. 

 

18 books in a 36-week school year would be one book every two weeks. I really cannot imagine a student being able to do much more than a cursory reading of most high school books in just two weeks, then on to the next. Can a good book even sink in in two weeks? How much time does the student have after that to think more extensively about the book, beyond the basic "character, plot, theme,..." questions?   

 

Personally, having been a lit major, I'd opt for depth of analysis over breadth of exposure, but SWB has btdt expertise in teaching lit so I must be missing something. If I ever see her at a conference, this is one of those things I really want to ask her about!

 

I do wonder if quantity is mostly an American thing?

 

No, I feel the same way.  I can't picture reading something like the Aeneid over two weeks in high school.  I did some books in that quickly in university, and it just felt like we barely touched on them.  

 

I guess maybe the idea is to have just read them, and save the depth for later?  Personally I think high school students would be better off to read fewer books deeply.  Especially if the might not go into the humanities or university at all.

[J-rap]

Dickens and Dickens.   :)

 

Hard to say which ones though...

 

David Copperfield and Tale of Two Cities, maybe.  

 

ETA:  My girls enjoyed Little Dorrit a lot too.  There is a really lovely BBC Little Dorrit series, if you want to combine a book with media.  

Edited August 10, 2017 by J-rap

[chiguirre]

You might find chapter 27 in the 4th edition of The Well-Trained Mind helpful. SWB says this about the number of books to read: "Try to make a realistic assessment of how many books the student will be able to cover in the course of a year. Eight books is a minimum; twelve is better; eighteen is stellar."

 

If I had to choose 6 per year, for a total of 12, I would choose the following:

 

1. Homer, Iliad and Odyssey. Well, that's technically two, so if I had to choose one of those, I'd choose the Iliad.

 

2. Plato, The Republic.

 

3. Virgil, Aeneid.

 

4. Beowulf.

 

5. Dante. The Inferno.

 

6. Chaucer, The Canterbury Tales. (selections)

 

7. Shakespeare, a play of your choice.

 

8. Jane Austen. Pride and Prejudice.

 

9. Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist.

 

10. Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter.

 

11. Henry David Thoreau, Walden.

 

12. W.E.B. Du Bois, The Souls of Black Folk.

 

 

This is a great list! I'd like to suggest a tweak to include more usual high school titles. I'd replace the Republic with a short dialogue like The Apology and make time for either Oedipus Rex or Antigone.

[Penelope]

I always found those numbers odd. When I've looked at the reading lists for some of the most selective private, college prep high schools, I have never, never seen 12/year, let alone 18. It is much closer to eight or ten, not including any short stories, etc.

 

18 books in a 36-week school year would be one book every two weeks. I really cannot imagine a student being able to do much more than a cursory reading of most high school books in just two weeks, then on to the next. Can a good book even sink in in two weeks? How much time does the student have after that to think more extensively about the book, beyond the basic "character, plot, theme,..." questions?

 

Personally, having been a lit major, I'd opt for depth of analysis over breadth of exposure, but SWB has btdt expertise in teaching lit so I must be missing something. If I ever see her at a conference, this is one of those things I really want to ask her about!

 

I do wonder if quantity is mostly an American thing?

I agree that 18 seems like really pushing it, but some of the works are quite short. Some are dramas that do not take more than a week to read. I also think there is value in just reading some of them without analyzing them to death, and while some kids will read the classics in their free time, many will not, so assigning some for reading at least gives exposure.

 

The other thing to consider is that someone using Great Books as in TWTM would be giving two credits, one each for literature and history. Some weeks there might be less to focus on historically and more time would be spent in thoughtful reading. Some might choose to focus much more on the literature than the history the entire year, but still come out with two credits worth.

 

I noticed that in at least some of the WTM Academy literature classes, the students read selections from a work but not always the full work. This makes a lot of sense to me, as some works are so long that they could take most of a semester to read just one.

[Vida Winter]

I've been away for a while but I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this discussion. :thumbup1: