ADD grade level & driving

[bluedarling]

15yo ADD (mainly impulsive, borderline for ASD but attributed to giftedness).  Academically does well, except gets poor grades in outside courses because of poor organizational/executive skills.  [i live for the day he turns something in with a name on it...and I do send it back if it doesn't have a name, attempting to get it through his head that it is required.]   If we are going to retain his older brother (see previous post), the question came up if this child is at the correct grade level as well.  If he proceeds he will graduate at 17.5yo, which is OK, except that this child is not a mature student.  He desires to move forward, and says he'll work on his weaknesses this year.  However, I'm afraid its really not a matter of trying.  Advice from others with similar students?

 

Also, in our state this child could get a driving permit now if I enrolled him in driver ed.  Even without that, he will be able to get a permit in a few months  What have others experienced with good, well-behaved, but distracted/impulsive students and driving?  My thought was to tell him he had to be 16 for a permit?  Or just get him a permit to allow driving with a parent for a longer period of time? (request a permit extension?)   I held this child's hand in parking lots until he was 12yo!  And even now in the city I will tell him to hold onto me so I know he's with me.    If he goes to college at 17.5yo, I'd think he should know how to drive?  But at the same time, putting him behind a wheel scares me. Thoughts?

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, you know your child.  If you don't think it is safe for him to drive yet, then wait.  Definitely wait.  I had 3 friends killed in High School/College or cause the death of others because they were not ready to drive.  Impulsive, inexperienced, etc.  And they were NT.  Doesn't mean he couldn't be practicing with you right now.  It may take a long time to get all the movements down and the ability to judge situations.  That takes time and experience.

 

As for retaining him, if he were willing to take a gap year, you could slow things down but still maybe make it look like he graduated when he wanted to?  Just brainstorming here.  DD14 wants to graduate "on time", which would mean she would be 18, nearly 19.  OhE and others suggested a gap year if we can't get through all the required math/science in that time frame (5 years) so she could technically graduate with her homeschooling peers but would actually finish her academics in that "gap year" even though the bulk of it should be completed by then.  We are playing it by ear right now, but the suggestion for a gap year makes a lot of sense to me...

 

Honestly, I wish I had had a gap year to mature a bit, maybe work part time or even full time, while I tried to figure out what my purpose in attending college would be.  I missed some great opportunities for learning while I was there because the first couple of years I kind of meandered in what I wanted to do.

 

Not sure I helped at all but hugs....

[Pen]

Don't know your child, but I tend to be in favor of longer practice time,  Maybe wait the few months AND enroll in driver ed, AND then practice longer with parents before full license (unless a lot of settling down and maturity suddenly happens).  Does he need to drive to get to college? If not maybe let him wait on that till 18, but the longer someone can practice in safe conditions, probably, the better, even if it is an empty parking lot.  How does he handle a bike or a shopping cart?

[PeterPan]

Well I've been haunted ever since Barb posted a link to something showing that the accident rates for unmedicated ADHD are *3 times* the normal population.  That's EXTREMELY high, and as you say it's a life or death situation.

 

You have a lot of of options.  I'm just saying every time I ponder the options, I then repeat "But the accident rate is 3X higher with unmedicated ADHD" and I have my answer.  

 

We have her driving the mower more.  As silly as it sounds, kids don't get enough experience DRIVING.  Guffanti says to get them an old clunker rat trap so they can FEEL the road.  We got her a hand me down car (not bad, new enough not to be dangerous, has airbags, etc.) that basically blows up and feels like you're going to rattle and DIE if you take it above the speed limit.  So if you've got one of those handy, that might shift the equation.  

 

Yes, you could get the permit but only allow him to drive in the tin can with a parent, never any other way till drivers ed.  You could do the extension on the permit and not let them get their independent license till later.

 

Tin can and plenty of time driving before you're allowed independent, that's my theory.  I'd be scared to death to rush it when the subtype is impulsivity.  I think you should be trusting your gut on this and finding some options to compromise, ways to get the experience but be safe.

 

[bluedarling]

Thanks.  I had not heard about the increased accident rate (not that it surprises me.)  That is pretty convincing.  I think my husband's car qualifies as a clunker...hee hee.  My 17yo prefers to drive his to mine!  Maybe its because he can FEEL the road...no idea.  (I avoid driving it...loosey goosey steering.)   All 3 older kiddos mow...I'll have to ask hubby how he does with it. (I suspect he's not as detailed about where he mows...and dad is perfectionistic, so child avoids doing it.)  Don't know how he does with bike or shopping cart, either...he doesn't do much of either.  OK...feel like I have a plan for the driving.  He's really not pushing it...he's scared to drive, too.   I don't know when he will need to drive (not for the next two years since his brother or I can drive him until then.)  No idea where he's headed for college, yet!   Momentary panic time is over---I'll get him a permit at 16 (like I did his brother), but extend his permit, and go from there. :)

 

Still undecided on grade level / dual enrollment.  This is probably the more pressing issue, since if I'm adjusting his brother's grade level, now would be the best time to address his as well.  The gap year idea works if we are giving up on dual enrollment, but he really wants to do it.  This child thrives with instructors who will discuss/theorize with him...that is NOT me.  I do not teach to his learning style at all....having a teacher present to ask questions/discuss would make a huge difference for this child.  However, the risk of failure is high due to executive function.  If he went into dual enrollment a year later, then MAYBE he might stand a better chance of having some executive function?  or is that just a dream?  I mean, this kid is 15yo and still can't remember to his name on a piece of paper. 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Sorry, I missed that part of your question!  If you grade adjust, he gets a year 13 and it's 13,12,11,10 on the transcript rebadged for 9th-12th. You don't even have to mark grade, just years if you want. At least that's what people are doing I've talked with.  And I'm discussing it with my own dd.  It's not crazy to say that a kid who's super bright should have time for their EF and living skills to coordinate with their academics so that when they go away they're more successful. 

 

I'm not saying we're going to do that btw.  I'm just saying we're *discussing* it.  As in I could totally see it as reasonable and beneficial.  Time is really helping her, and I think she'd do well to have some DE while she's still living at home.  If we can't reasonably do that next year, then that means her ONLY experience would be whatever she got around to the following year (gr12).  She's not even close to maxing out what we could do at home and the extra year would give her more time to bloom.  

 

I always thought of that so punitively, like it was a statement of failure.  Now I'm more in the "it's a big world, take your time, max out what you can, bloom, then go"...  Something like that.  But we'll see.  She's so independent, she thinks she wants to go.  She doesn't quite realize the skills she needs and how she's not quite there.  Super bright, but really just not there.  But blossoming.  So we'll see.  

[Princess Ariel]

My ds 15, ADHD combined, took driver's ed this summer and it went really well for him.  I think it really helped that he had an amazing instructor who really "gets" kids and driving and really emphasized  safety.  Ds only missed one question on his permit exam which is really remarkable as he has always struggled with learning (many LD's). Ds is constantly quoting things the instructor said during the classroom sessions.  And he seems very focused when driving. However, he has not done the "behind the wheel" portions of the course yet, has not been on the freeway, and we are taking it SLOW. We are not aiming for him to get his license when he turns 16 as he isn't as mature as our other kids were and he is impulsive as well. He did start on ADHD meds this summer, is on his second one now and it has helped his  focus and I do not doubt it played a role  in how he did in the class. We feel this will give him extra time and experience before he turns 18.

 

If you decide to have him  take a course, interview the instructor and get a feel for how qualified they are.  I know this has definitely  helped all of my kids do well with driving.

[Ottakee]

In addition to the extra practice time (in Michigan they can be on a permit for years), have you considered medication?  If this is a serious worry and the evidence seems to indicate that UNmedicated ADD kids are 3 times more likely to get in an accident then it might be worth considering.

[bluedarling]

In addition to the extra practice time (in Michigan they can be on a permit for years), have you considered medication?  If this is a serious worry and the evidence seems to indicate that UNmedicated ADD kids are 3 times more likely to get in an accident then it might be worth considering.

 

I cannot get him to take it.  I've tried.  We have brought them up with such an anti-drug philosophy that now he won't even take it when he needs it. (We were able to get his brother off serious medications through diet changes, but those changes had no effect on him.)  He has very strong feelings on this (due to a friend's experience, as well), and I decided he was old enough to make his own decision on this one.  (We really couldn't afford to do it long-term, anyway, but I wanted him to try it so we could see what difference it made for him.  There was no appeal in that for him.)  The naturopath told him the medication helps with focus, but not impulsivity (his main issue.)  An adhd adult friend of mine disagrees...she said its made a huge difference with her impulsivity.  We may never know how it could help him, though.

[Princess Ariel]

I cannot get him to take it.  I've tried.  We have brought them up with such an anti-drug philosophy that now he won't even take it when he needs it. (We were able to get his brother off serious medications through diet changes, but those changes had no effect on him.)  He has very strong feelings on this (due to a friend's experience, as well), and I decided he was old enough to make his own decision on this one.  (We really couldn't afford to do it long-term, anyway, but I wanted him to try it so we could see what difference it made for him.  There was no appeal in that for him.)  The naturopath told him the medication helps with focus, but not impulsivity (his main issue.)  An adhd adult friend of mine disagrees...she said its made a huge difference with her impulsivity.  We may never know how it could help him, though.

 

 

Our son was the same way, refusing medication.  I also admit I initially was not in favor of it and prefer natural methods.  But he was still struggling with both focus and impulsivity.  So our doc approached him with the idea of ds trying a "research project" for 1 month.  She asked him to try it and if after that month, he did not feel it was helpful, he could stop. Well, he noticed a major difference in a couple of days, saying he had been living in a foggy, jumbled mess in his head and he could finally think clearly. So he decided to continue. He switched to another med, but definitely feels he needs something. I never would have believed I would be recommending these adhd meds but they were truly life changing for ds. He still refuses melatonin for sleep and I can't figure that one out!

[PeterPan]

Or look into neurofeedback.  Supposedly as effective as meds and permanent.

[SandyKC]

I can relate to a lot of things on this thread. Like the whole meds discussion. Maybe using an "experimental" approach, your DS might be willing to just see if it helps.  He'd need to be aware there are usually "start-up" side effects that go away, but for kids meds help--the improvements are often immediately noticeable. 

 

With driving, our boys got permits at 15 and practiced in school and business parking lots on Sundays for quite awhile.  Neither of my guys got their licenses until they were 18. Both of my boys self-regulated to being older before getting their licenses because they were each very aware of their own difficulties with driving. Being able to discuss what was hard for them in driving and how to manage areas of difficulty (attention and processing speed) is a really important component of driving instruction for teens with different types of processing issues, and being open about issues and aware of them helped my boys make wise choices about their own driving abilities.