How do you handle *feigned incompetence* in your children?

[Tranquility7]

Sometimes I ask DS7 to do something I know he is capable of doing - maybe a chore, maybe a math sheet, whatever...  If he doesn't want to do it, he sometimes will act like he is *incapable* of doing it on his own.  If I sit with him and do it WITH him, he is fine.  But sometimes I just need him to DO IT and knock off the incompetence act.

 

I even tell him that if he just *asks* me nicely to do it with him (simply admitting to me that he really doesn't want to do it alone), I might happily agree to work with him.  But if he just acts incompetent in an attempt to get out of the task or get me to do it with him, then he is lying and manipulating.  I very rarely get angry, but feigned incompetence just about sends me over.the.edge.

 

In the past I have sometimes disciplined him for this, but my trouble with that is I don't want to discipline him when he is genuinely confused or unsure about something.  But I feel like I can't trust his "confusion" anymore, because I never know if it is genuine!

 

Anyone else deal with this and have a magic solution??

 

 

[PeterPan]

Then don't ask him to do it.  Grab him by the hand, say "Let's go!", do it together, and after he has done it 3-5 times so you know he can, then back off *slightly* on letting him take over.  It's more about habit than anything.  Besides, him wanting you to do it with him might reflect that he as a sweet side and wants to be with you.  My dd was never like that and always wanted me out, out.  My ds is more the do it with me type, and I cherish it.  So I say use it as an excuse to dump something you didn't want to do anyway, or trade and say you'll do it with him if he then comes and does your thing with you, which he might actually enjoy.  :D

[SemiSweet]

My dd does this all the time, it frustrates the heck out of me.  I haven't figured out  great way to deal with it, but I do offer to help and sit with her, sometimes that seems to be all she wants.  Her favorite thing is to interrupt me (repeatedly) when I'm working one on one with ds, at that point I tell her she can put it aside and wait until I can be with her or be punished.  

[mathnerd]

I get this all the time with my DS - he simply wants me with him when he does the task. He is 6 years old. My understanding is that it is boring for him to deal with a chore or task by himself and would like someone else to do it with him - and also that he is unable (worried about consequenses?) to refuse and uses his "inability" to do a task as a way to get out of doing it.

In these cases, I go back to him, start on the task with him, verbally go through the sequence of what needs to be done, make him repeat to me in full sentences what needs to be done and then tell him that now he knows how to do it and then leave.

He also tries to walk away and play with a toy because the work he is currently doing is "too hard" or "cannot understand" and he needs help. I make him go back and stay seated and tell him to skip the part that is too hard for him and carry on with the parts that he can handle. I later go through the parts he pretended was difficult and then ask him if it was easy this time around or not.

I also give him endless lectures on being independent, self-reliant etc (though they don't seem to help, it makes me feel better!)

I get you when you say this sends you over the edge. Mine comes knocking claiming the work is too hard if I have to go to the bathroom. I cannot even walk away to get a glass of water because I will see him following me saying he does not understand something.

 

[dbmamaz]

kids.  They can be annoying.  Work on accepting it without anger and responding in a useful way.  Sometimes I remind them, sometimes I stay with them (biting my tongue), sometimes I will just insist that I know they know how.  Kinda depends on the task, the kid, the age, the day.

[Farrar]

He's seven.  I wouldn't assume that's manipulative.  It's actually much harder at age 7 to get something done without someone right there to help you manage.  I know you're not helping him with the math or writing or skill of the assignment, but being there is helping him with the executive functioning aspect of it.  You're helping him navigate the steps, probably without even realizing it.

[Tranquility7]

Then don't ask him to do it.  Grab him by the hand, say "Let's go!", do it together, and after he has done it 3-5 times so you know he can, then back off *slightly* on letting him take over.  It's more about habit than anything.  Besides, him wanting you to do it with him might reflect that he as a sweet side and wants to be with you.  My dd was never like that and always wanted me out, out.  My ds is more the do it with me type, and I cherish it.  So I say use it as an excuse to dump something you didn't want to do anyway, or trade and say you'll do it with him if he then comes and does your thing with you, which he might actually enjoy.   :D

 

Ugh, I SO wish I were an extrovert!!!! Or at least not such a severe introvert  And that I had a full time cook and housekeeper, LOL!  Then I would have both energy and time to do everything with him.  Honestly, I think that would be the ideal scenario all around.  But the fact of the matter is, sometimes I need him to work independently so I can get some other task done, and often those times are also my only "sanity breaks" during the day.  Doing the work together and then doing my task together also is kind of a nightmare idea to me - am I a terrible mommy for feeling that way???   :blush:  (It's ok to say "YES!" - I truly wish I were different in this way.)

 

I honestly *love* doing school with him and DD. *LOVE* it.  We cover all new material together and have such a good time doing it.  They are enthusiastic little learners and relatively easy to teach.  We also review a lot together, and the only independent work I ever give him is solely review.  The only reason I wonder about the confusion being genuine is that sometimes on math pages problems are presented that, even while they are the same concepts, they are presented in a different way.  And I think on first glance, yes, it can seem "different" - but if he would just *read* the problem and think about it for two seconds, he could figure it out (I know this since he always does when we are working together).  (And yes he is only 7, but he reads at probably a 6th grade level, so reading is definitely not an issue with him).

 

DS enjoys time alone as well as time with his family.  I think he may be an introvert but not nearly as extreme as I am, or maybe even a mild extrovert.  But even if it IS an issue of just plain wanting to do it together instead of alone, my problem is that I hate hate hate the lying and manipulation, and I feel like it establishes a horrible pattern if I let him continue with it.  Just ASK ME HONESTLY if we can please just do it together just because that is more fun... don't lie to me and act all pathetic and tell me it is too hard!  He is really a mature kid and is generally surprisingly self-aware, so I don't know why he doesn't get this. 

 

I know, I'm probably expecting too much of him at his age.  Writing all of this out helps me see that.  I don't know why I am expecting too much.  I guess because of his being enthusiastic and easy to teach, as I mentioned before, as well as very precocious.  We end up going quickly through curricula because he enjoys it and needs the challenge... but I don't like flying through curricula without doing sufficient practice also, and that is the part that causes us trouble with this feigned incompetence issue.  Maybe I should just slow everything down a bit.

 

I really appreciate all these replies.  They have given me so much to consider.

[La Texican]

My dd does this all the time, it frustrates the heck out of me. I haven't figured out great way to deal with it, but I do offer to help and sit with her, sometimes that seems to be all she wants. Her favorite thing is to interrupt me (repeatedly) when I'm working one on one with ds, at that point I tell her she can put it aside and wait until I can be with her or be punished.

That sounds about right. I sent my kid to school last year, able to read & write... the teacher let him get away with not doing copywork by saying "I can't".. even though both teachers and the principal said he could. I knew he could. He knew he could. He learned he doesn't have to, and he learned he gets more attention and less work by saying "I can't". That's why he's homeschooled.

At home I do like semisweet, if he's interrupting and using it as an excuse I call that bad behavior. He might have to wait until I can help him, but if he says "I don't know how" I will help him in any way until he does. Saying "I don't know" doesn't get him out of work at my house. That's the point of an education, I believe, to learn things you don't know. I feel good about this because I've read Carol Dwecks articles online about a fixed vs growth mindset. I feel like I can help my kids learn "I don't know" does not mean "I can't", and that smart people do hard work, and that needing help means you're probably doing something productive.

But.. there are two types of I can't. There's "this work is too hard" and there's "my brain is tired". I've decided to honor the "my brain is tired" type of can't. I keep the days short. Ok. There's three types of I can't. The other is really "I don't want to". Some days I let him get "away" with this and call what little bit he did good. I figure we all have those days, you know? He looks relieved when I let it slide. I expect reasonable effort the next day, which I usually get. That's when I know it's just one of those days. If I was wrong and it wasn't just one of those days, but becomes a couple of days and looks like he's doing a power check I drop the hammer if god on his butt and we sit at the table all day long until it's done. I bring something to entertain myself and just ignore him and make him sit there. We talk about the hammer of god times and that I can't stand it and "he better not". I don't mention the let it slide times, but I think it really helps his attitude because he knows, it reminds him when he needs it, that he'll get what he requires when he needs it.

[Snow]

It reminds me of how adults go workout together for accountability. Or two friends going to the library to study. It's simply easier for a lot of people to do unpleasant tasks together.

 

But it's tiresome when it's every little thing, for sure. Sometimes it works for ds when we both do our tasks 'together' and have a race. (How about I do the dishes and you pick up your room and we will meet back in here in 10 min and see who is farther along? ).

[Tranquility7]

He's seven.  I wouldn't assume that's manipulative.  It's actually much harder at age 7 to get something done without someone right there to help you manage.  I know you're not helping him with the math or writing or skill of the assignment, but being there is helping him with the executive functioning aspect of it.  You're helping him navigate the steps, probably without even realizing it.

 

I don't necessarily think it is conscious, planned manipulation.  In fact, I don't think that at all.  But I think in this scenario I'm speaking of, he is saying or doing whatever he needs to say or do in order to get me to do what he wants, which is manipulation, isn't it?  In my experience, kids (even young ones) can be really good at manipulation.  That doesn't mean they realize what they are doing (I doubt they do until they are older, and maybe not even then), but it still seems to me to be a bad pattern to reinforce (which seems like what I'm doing if I give in to it rather than helping him recognize his true need and make an honest request of me).  But I don't know, I really don't.  I'm kinda out of my element here.

[Farrar]

I don't necessarily think it is conscious, planned manipulation.  In fact, I don't think that at all.  But I think in this scenario I'm speaking of, he is saying or doing whatever he needs to say or do in order to get me to do what he wants, which is manipulation, isn't it?  In my experience, kids (even young ones) can be really good at manipulation.  That doesn't mean they realize what they are doing (I doubt they do until they are older, and maybe not even then), but it still seems to me to be a bad pattern to reinforce (which seems like what I'm doing if I give in to it rather than helping him recognize his true need and make an honest request of me).  But I don't know, I really don't.  I'm kinda out of my element here.

 

I see what you're saying.  At the base level everything we do is manipulation.  But the key thing here, to me, is that it's likely not just that he wants you there to get the work done, it's that he needs you there to get the work done.  I know it's hard for us as adults to understand and when you have a child who is consistently capable - reads at a high level, as you say - that he might not be capable of doing something simple.  But the truth is that sitting alone, by one's self, it's much harder for a young child to remember to keep going, to keep working, to finish, or why they're really there in the first place when it's a task they didn't set for themselves.  A few kids can work independently at that age and it's a laudable goal to try and shepherd them toward, but even if they have all the individual skills to finish a piece of work on their own, bringing them together may be too difficult.  And asking him to be able to articulate a need for someone to help him with his focus and executive functioning is rather a tall bill for a 7 yo as well.

[fourisenough]

Never mind children; how do you deal with it coming from DH? I'm mostly joking, but my husband's go-to response for any request he isn't eager to fulfill is to act like he has no idea how to do it (taking DD to a birthday party, for example- but I don't know where the roller rink is located, and I can't skate, and I'm not sure what size shoe she wears, etc).

 

Okay, sarcasm aside, I'll go back and read the thread now.

[Tranquility7]

Never mind children; how do you deal with it coming from DH? I'm mostly joking, but my husband's go-to response for any request he isn't eager to fulfill is to act like he has no idea how to do it (taking DD to a birthday party, for example- but I don't know where the roller rink is located, and I can't skate, and I'm not sure what size shoe she wears, etc).

 

Okay, sarcasm aside, I'll go back and read the thread now.

 

LOL.  Noooo comment.  ;)

 

:D