kdownie Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Here's the scoop... DD (age 7) doesn't like math, especially addition and subtraction (she likes money and tolerates time. She likes measuring). Math time brings out major bad attitudes, pouting, "it's too hard!" etc. (she likes things to be easy, in all areas of her life). We are attempting 1 page of math a week this summer to help retention. (that's it, one page, but it still sours her mood.) She is not behind. She started 2nd grade MM (2A) half way through 1st. She isn't fast but can just get it done when she makes up her mind to. We are about 40% through 2nd grade MM. She likes manipulatives, too. The biggest problems are that 1. The daily battle to get math done exhausts me. 2. I want her to like math. She loves science and if she goes into that field one day, she'll likely need a strong math background. Kindergarten was a cyber academy, and we went along with their math program. First was MM, adding in LoF for fun. I have Miquon, and she plays with it a little. I am thinking of switching to MUS primarily bc it still uses manipulatives and with the dvds, I think she may respond better to someone else "teaching" her. I know I will also teach her, of course. I can borrow the dvd and teacher's guide, so I'll only be buying the student books. I just so badly want to find something she does fairly happily and not curriculum hop. Will Beta MUS follow well if we are almost halfway through MM 2? Will it be more interesting? Any other suggestions or advice? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I would be tempted to do Miquon (and/or the Education Unboxed videos) with rods for a while and just supplement with MM from time to time or leave it and go back to it later on, in grade 3 or 4. MM is a strong program though the early parts aren't particularly fun. I'd also stop MM for the summer and use something more fun for retention - games, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmi783 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Don't know if I will be any help ,(I haven't used MM), I have used MUS from the start with my son (he will be 10 in Sept). I enjoy it, he says that he doesn't like it.(however I get that with pretty much everything that involves writting). He watches the video's with me. I found this year we had to do transfer questions on looseleaf instead of doing them in the studentbook. Long division was a problem with the blank area he needed lines. He knows his math I don't have to worry about that, usually by the 2nd or 3rd day(sometimes the 1st depending on the topic) he can do his work all by himself. I was tempted to switch with all the options out there and the extra whining I was getting with the extra writting but I'm sticking with it because of all the help options (dvd, manual, web site...) and the fact that it goes all the way through to gr 12, I don't have to worry about gaps., most importantly he comprehends it and can apply it, I'd get the whining over the writing with any program. Good Luck !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 MUS Beta covers addition and subtraction with regrouping. You may have already done that with MM 2A. I'd try Miquon because she could pick out the worksheet she wants to work on from a variety of different topics, so when something gets too hard, she can switch to a different area for a while. So, for example, she's hit a wall with subtraction, she could pick a fractions worksheet instead. I think this might be the easiest approach for you. You'll want to buy at least the blue and green books plus Lab Note Annotations, but you might want to pick up Red to review +/- and get the intro to fractions, multiplication and division topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Knowing what I know now, if she were mine, for the summer I would try her on Sumdog math computer games for fun and retention of basic math facts, plus ask her to write a subtraction and addition problem for you to do each day so you can keep up on your retention (of course she needs to have solved it to know if you get it right or not)--you can pretend to pout and complain and say it is too hard and get them wrong sometimes...that is more fun than when dc do it. Then I'd reassess what is needed heading into the fall. I'd let her look at MUS online samples and see what she thinks of it. We have used both programs (MM and MUS--but not at the levels you are wondering about) they are both strong programs. Neither is especially fun, I think MM may be slightly more fun--but maybe having someone other than mom doing some teaching via video would help. If you are switching, I'd do online assessment to see where she would place. MUS tends to start easy in each book and then get hard. You may need to work directly on doing work that needs to be done even when it is not fun. Still, I'd loosen up to something fun as suggested above for the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdownie Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! Pen, I'm definitely going to look up those computer games. If she gets to do things on the computer, I am pretty sure she would think it was more fun. Great idea about letting her make up problems for me! She loves being the "teacher", and I'd totally forgotten that! I told her today that I was going to switch to Miquon instead of MM for the summer, and she let out a cheer :-) . I do love the strength of MM, though, for the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Hm, We've used both. MM and MUS are both lower on the 'fun' factor and honeslty closer to boring and monotonous for *some* kids. That is probably their biggest weakness IMO. For ds11 he did fine with MUS all the way through the elementary years. But for dds it was not a good fit at all. So I don't know if switching from MM to MUS will help much at least in that regard. Neither of our dds liked MUS or MM which ended up leading to their hatred of math early on. I didn't want them hating math and they weren't retaining things with MUS. They needed more review. We then tired CLE and things really turned around. They both enjoy working with CLE. We now supplement with MM and HOE for extra problems and differing perspectives on things. IMO, it's worth exploring your options and attempting to tailor a program to your child's needs and learning style. Sure, you could continue the way you are going with the same curriculum. But that may not be the optimal method for your dd or you even if its great for the next family or child. Every child is different and gifted in their own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shan.non Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 What about Critical Thinking Co Core Mathematical Reasoning? I am trying to find more info on it for upper elementary and if it can be used as a stand alone curric. My daughter who loves science hates MM and doesn't like RightStart or Dreambox. We are choosing Horizons or CTC with Horizons. My daughter frustrates me because math comes so easily for her (she intuitively knows concepts without being taught except for telling time) but she fights me every day to get it done. So I feel for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Mathematics Made Meaningful first, *then* Miquon. I believe Rainbow Resources carries it. The Wonder Number Game is fun and quite useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 My suggestion isn't necessarily cheap. I'd get Giggle Facts and play those with her this summer. I'd have her try the Teaching Textbook 3 samples and see what she thinks of that. TT would be someone else teaching, yet a little more fun on the computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 What about Critical Thinking Co Core Mathematical Reasoning? I am trying to find more info on it for upper elementary and if it can be used as a stand alone curric. ... My ds is currently using that for review of basics while also doing Intro Algebra. I think it could be stand alone for some children. It does not have a lot of explanation of what to do (unless it did back in earlier levels), so sometimes I have to figure out what it is looking for and tell him what to do (for example, Tic-Tac-Math, where one is supposed to fill in missing figures to make all rows columns and major diagonals add up to a particular number did not seem to explain what was wanted...but it a lot of fun as a way to review subtraction, while also developing some algebraic thinking). I personally prefer Mathematical Reasoning to Miquon, though I know many people rave about Miquon. I think it would be a possibility if the OP needs something more fun but an actual program for the summer. I have all the published so far Mathematical Reasoning books from 4th to Geometry (6th will be out in Fall) if you want to ask more specifics about it that I can answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shan.non Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Pen, you are awesome. I have read countless reviews but people either are not detailed or think it is not enough due to the lack of explanation. We are going to try it out and see what we think. I just not want her behind or lacking in mathematical knowledge. We consider math, reading, and science the most important subjects for this child. I just wished she didn't detest math. Do you use it by itself or is it a supplement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsplaymath Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! Pen, I'm definitely going to look up those computer games. If she gets to do things on the computer, I am pretty sure she would think it was more fun. Great idea about letting her make up problems for me! She loves being the "teacher", and I'd totally forgotten that! I told her today that I was going to switch to Miquon instead of MM for the summer, and she let out a cheer :-) . I do love the strength of MM, though, for the long run. You've gotten some fantastic suggestions so far! I especially like the one about having your daughter make up math problems. That was always the backbone of my early elementary math program, and it really helps build a strong foundation. Here are a few additional ideas (mostly from my blog) that you may find helpful: Kick up the fun factor while exploring advanced mathematical ideas with Moebius Noodles Try some hands-on living math explorations like what Lula's kids have done, or try some of Malke's creative math ideas Play around with math games And whenever you go back to a math curriculum, make it more daughter-friendly by doing the work buddy-style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 ... Do you use it by itself or is it a supplement? By itself for what it does, but it is in some measure review for him. And separately by its own other self we are using Jousting with Armadillos which I learned about it a different thread here. Basically he has 2 separate math classes, one for his more advanced conceptual side (6th grade intro algebra Jw/A), and one for his needing more continual review on the basics computation side but in a way that does not bore him to tantrums (Mathematical Reasoning 5--it has more than just computation, but it does have computation which he needs). It is making for a reasonably fun summer math program esp. with some Sumdog time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdownie Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 You've gotten some fantastic suggestions so far! I especially like the one about having your daughter make up math problems. That was always the backbone of my early elementary math program, and it really helps build a strong foundation. Here are a few additional ideas (mostly from my blog) that you may find helpful: Kick up the fun factor while exploring advanced mathematical ideas with Moebius Noodles Try some hands-on living math explorations like what Lula's kids have done, or try some of Malke's creative math ideas Play around with math games And whenever you go back to a math curriculum, make it more daughter-friendly by doing the work buddy-style Denise, your post piqued my interest, so I checked out your blog. I'm completely intrigued! DD really enjoys playing math, like playing store (we take turns as customer and store keeper, so she gets both sides of it). She loves to help me cook and measure things. I'm sending you a message! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I agree with those who are cautioning against MUS. It will be high in what she doesn't enjoy and low in what she does enjoy, and may not be enough drill to get facts down cold, in spite of it's "dryness." Additionally, she might love the ease at the beginning of each book and hate the difficulty at the end of each level (particularly Gamma and Delta). We tried MM once and quickly shelved it. The page layout alone turned off my kids before they even got very far. I'm another one who likes CLE because it is spiral and because there's such a good variety of different types of problems every day. But if you are finding good suggestions here for games and fun stuff to add to MM to make it more appealing, I say go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdownie Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Mathematics Made Meaningful first, *then* Miquon. I believe Rainbow Resources carries it. The Wonder Number Game is fun and quite useful. Ellie, do you know if there is a way to get the activity cards and teacher's guide with the c-rods? We have tons of rods. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Ellie, do you know if there is a way to get the activity cards and teacher's guide with the c-rods? We have tons of rods. Thanks! Not that I know of. There are other books and stuff for C-rods, of course, but I love those activity cards. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shan.non Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 By itself for what it does, but it is in some measure review for him. Thank you! I think I will go ahead and buy it and hopefully she finds math not so dreadful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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