Calvert Placement?

[JenneinCA]

Please help me figure out what to put in the comments section on the Calvert placement test. Please.

 

Dd9 and ds7 did the essay and the math placement tests. Both are an accurate representation of what each of them can currently do.

 

The issue is I want the Calvert people to help me decide placement based on how they did on those tests and NOT based on age and what a typical child of that age would be able to do. I want them to start by looking at the placement tests and then adjust for age, rather than start by age and then adjust for the placement tests.

 

Specifically I am concerned that they will limit how high they will place ds7 in math because his writing is so... seven year old ish. It isn't what he wrote that is a problem; it is the fact that it is written in seven year old scrawl. It is readable, but he reversed some of his number 6 and a probably other numbers too. It is hard to deal with a kid who can do long division and add and subtract fractions with different denominators and also writes his numbers backwards sometimes. What can I say to help them to look past the reversals and at the content?

 

His essay (all three lines of it!) has similar issues. It is in cursive, so the letters aren't backwards, but it is not pretty. The content is alright, but the pretty part is not there. I think he needs to be in Calvert 3 with something around Calvert 5? for math, but I would really like an independent person to reach the some conclusion.

 

And dd9... I just have no idea where to place her. I really doubt that age/grade placement of Calvert 5 would make sense, but I can't tell. I don't know what normal looks like. And just because she is the way she is, she prints everything. She can do cursive, but she vastly prefers to print and she did the entire essay printed. She said because it was both easier to write and easier to read. I can't argue with that.

 

And I don't know where to put her in math, she did everything that ds7 did and then some, but she also has some huge gaps, like she forgot everything she ever knew about percents. She did know this before but not right now... So I have no clue about where she needs to be in either math or the rest.

 

So if you have any suggestions on how to put this onto the form in the comment section I would be happy to listen. Or if you can reassure me that Calvert has dealt with these kinds of issues and you have had positive results that would be wonderful too.

 

(PS. We are doing Calvert because *I* need lesson plans already done for this year. And I need secular. This way the best solution I could find for that specific set of issues. It isn't perfect or ideal, it is just the best I can do right now. If you have other ideas I will be happy to look at them, but they really need to have daily lesson plans and have no bible references.)

[EKS]

Have you looked at K12? They have placement tests for math and english (that were accurate, at least for my kid) but you can choose to place your child wherever you think is appropriate. You can also go faster or slow down and go deeper wherever you choose and it won't affect the scheduling of lessons in the other subjects. I used several K12 courses last year with each of my kids and if I had to do a boxed curriculum that is the one I'd do.

[JenneinCA]

Thanks I will look at k12 again.

[LisaKinVA]

When I called Calvert about placing my son, they were going to "hold him back" so-to-speak because of the writing thing (even though the grammar, spelling and reading portions were well below where he was working). Math wasn't an issue, though.

 

I also spoke with Abeka... the answer I got from the rep there was, "why in the world would you want your son in a books ahead of his age/grade? At that pace, he'll finish too early." UGH.

 

That's why we went with K12. I started out doing everything as planned, but the writing curriculum was a bit much. Basically, I'm doing his writing curriculum according to his age/grade, and everything else is where he is currently working. I don't know how long we'll stay with K12 for my son... as he's rapidly approaching the end of the elementary curriculum. But, I suppose we'll see!

[Annie G]

We used Calvert for years and they happily placed my then 6 year old in grade 3 and it was a good fit. We quickly found that the kids needed to learn to type because their handwriting was poor and that was holding their composition skills back. They didn't want to write as much because the revisions were too tedious.

If you're not using ATS, Calvert is easier to adapt to your needs.

Do they still have the option to do a different level of math? When our kids were that young, they could be in one grade for math and another for everything else. However, we never used Calvert math so it wasn't an issue for us.

I think Calvert is used to kids not being on grade level...whether the kids are advanced or need to catch up, they are familiar with the needs of all of them. Good luck!

[JenneinCA]

I am intrigued by the K12 site, but I can't find the placement tests for math.

 

Does someone have direct links to where I can get them?

 

The link I found for language arts is:

https://eprcontent.k12.com/placement/placement/placement_langarts_2.html

 

Thank you!

[JenneinCA]

I found it.

 

https://eprcontent.k12.com/placement/placement/placement_math_1.html

 

Thank you for the ideas.

[TracyR]

I'll have to say this with having quite a bit of experience using Calvert . It should go by age and level at the same time . Calvert starts off very gentle in K , 1 and 2nd . Then all of a sudden out of no where it becomes extremely academic and very demanding at the same time . Some things asked of the child can be difficult not do to work but of maturity issues . A 7 year old using 4th grade isn't the same as a 9 or 10 year old using Calvert's 4th grade that is for sure .

 

My 2nd daughter is a year ahead of herself and now that we've hit 3rd grade its getting tough . We've finished with 4th and I've actually found myself saying that I want to stop right here and do another year of third with her . I know she can do the work . But I don't think she has the maturity to handle some of the work either . The older they get the longer the work time is and the longer the writing assignments are .

 

You may want to look into K12 they have alot of supplements that they add to their program for children who work faster . So he maybe placed into third but there is ALOT more he can do if he needs more . Plus their program is a bit more accelerated anyways . So if he places in third I wouldn't panic . I've seen some material that would be better suited for 5th in some of their subjects .

[JenneinCA]

Thank you for the advice. I am still thinking and trying to figure out how to get ready for the fall.

[Arch at Home]

After looking at the packaged programs, I knew that I would spend too much time adapting them. Consequently I came up the "Do this next thing" method of planning? I use almost sole workbook programs (Singapore Math and Science, Explode the Code, and Learning Language through Literature). Our non-workbook programs are split into a weekly format, Story of the World, Artistic Pursuits, and Calvert Spelling CD.

 

FIrst I took a look at our weekly schedule. We do a Co-op on Wednesdays, I like a light Friday, and I often have to leave early for work on Mondays. Then I looked at the subjects we wanted to cover and decided how often I wanted to cover them based on our schedule. Math and ETC 5 days, Science 3 days, history 2 days, art one day and so on. After that I balanced out the days so that on the days we had more time we did more subjects. After that I cut the binding of of the workbook. I have heavy duty page protectors for each day of the week for each child. Based on the plan each week I take weeks worth of work and divy it up between the days; for example, 5 pages of math and ETC, a weeks worth of science and LA, and SOTW's map and put them into their respective page protector. I did initially have to plan science. I figured out how many weeks I wanted it to take, spread the chapters, workbook sheets, and activities over that amount of weeks.

 

Each day I just pull out the packet and hand it to the child for them to do.

 

You might want to add workbook handwriting programs or logic or similar but this concept can be applied to any subject.

 

In addition I take about 15 minutes a weekend requesting books from SOTW's supplement reading list. I don't require them to be read but my oldest loves the weekly influx of reading material.

 

HTH

[EKS]

About K12--You can call them and get a demo account. This is different than just being able to look at the sample lessons. With the account you can actually see all the lessons for all the courses K-8. It was extremely helpful when I was trying to decide what I was going to do with K12 this coming year.

 

Oh--when you call, be prepared to wait on hold for a *long* time. That is one thing that drives me nuts about K12, but I like their product so I put up with it.

[wimseycat]

I have used both programs for my kids. We are currently still using K12. I would definitely go with K12 if your child is at different levels academically. I found Calvert to be too easy and too slow for my son. An average child might be fine with it, but not someone who is ahead.

 

I think costwise, they are comparable aren't they?

 

HTH,

Annika

[JenneinCA]

Both of these kids (dd9 and ds7) are Davidson kids, very pg and very intense. (Pg here is profoundly gifted, these kids are at the extreme end of the bell curve.) I am not trying to give them work that is too difficult or too easy. The issue is *I* need a break from being the bad guy and assigning more work than they want to do. It is not at all that they are not capable of doing it only that they would prefer to put in less effort. *I* can not keep going with the designing of curriculum and establishing what is good enough. It is at the point where I am putting in more time writing it than they are doing it. And that is ridiculous.

 

The biggest advantage to Calvert that I see is the Daily Checklist. It has a list of items to be done each day. That way there is some attempt at balance. My son is almost eight and will not willingly write even a sentence on his own. He needs to learn how to do that and I need for there to be an objective party saying to do it. "Ds7 the lesson plan says to do this page. You need to do it, even if you don't like it." And "Dd9, I know that it requires you to think to do your math and that you would rather read a book. You need to do your math and you need to do these problems."

 

So does K12 have a daily checklist? Does it give a list of items to be completed each day? Because if it doesn't then I can't use it. They will cherry pick the easy items and not do any of the more difficult ones. And that is not acceptable to me.

 

I am sorry if this sounds snippy. I am really really trying to do the best for these kids and also maintain my sanity. And some days are more difficult than others.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

You know, Jenne, I'm exactly in that same position! I'm tired of being the bad guy. Next year, my son is doing long distance education from France for his French language, possibly Sonlight for everything else. It does have a checklist.

I can handle math because he does not fight me there.

[threetreasurs]

A homeschool family we knew quite well had gifted kids and absolutely loved Calvert. They used the program all the way through the 8th grade level.

[abbeyej]

Have you called to speak with Calvert? I think that would be the most logical next step. I understand your reasons for selecting Calvert over K12, and I think even with the concerns you have about placement / asynchronicity, Calvert might work well. But I think the best thing you can do would be to call them and chat about your particular kids.

 

They *will* expect your son to do more writing. And yes, your daughter would have to do math every day. ;) Calvert 5 might be fine for her -- but 6 might be more appealing because the TM is written directly to the student in 6-8...

 

Give 'em a call!

[kailuamom]

I'll have to say this with having quite a bit of experience using Calvert . It should go by age and level at the same time . Calvert starts off very gentle in K , 1 and 2nd . Then all of a sudden out of no where it becomes extremely academic and very demanding at the same time . Some things asked of the child can be difficult not do to work but of maturity issues . A 7 year old using 4th grade isn't the same as a 9 or 10 year old using Calvert's 4th grade that is for sure .

 

 

 

I have to completely agree with this. We have used Calvert K, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Both my kids did the grade level ahead of their age (i.e., did 6th when in PS they would be in 5th) and I found that after 3 they really kick it up a notch. And like Tracy said, it is a maturity thing, too. A lot of the books they use in the older grades have more mature themes and the comprehension questions are deeper. You can always just have them do a Calvert level that is slightly challenging and supplement where you see the need to do so. As the grades progress the work gets more intense and my dd (doing 6) would often work long hours just to get done. Not that it was overly difficult, just that there was a lot.

 

Oh, and my 7 yo's writing was not great and she had no cursive at all and they did not have a problem putting her in 3rd (she had just turned 7 when she enrolled), even though if she had done Calvert 2 she would have done cursive. I found the counselors at Calvert to be very flexible. And, if you are not doing the ATS, there is really no problem with the handwriting. As long as the content is there (and the essays for 6th grade are several pages long), it shouldn't really matter.

 

Good luck!

[threetreasurs]

Great advice!

[JenneinCA]

No, I haven't sent in the placement tests to Calvert yet. The first post in this thread was me asking what to put in the comments section about the kids. I will put the tests in the mail on Monday and then talk to the Calvert person to find out what they say.

 

Just because it sounded worse than it really is, ds7 can write a sentence. He just doesn't want to do it. Dd9 can do the math. She just doesn't want to do it.

 

I had ds7 do the complete placement test, including the writing part even though it is for grades 4 and up. I am NOT wanting to place him higher than grade 3 specifically because of the writing part. I am hoping that a year of steady progress will help him, but I know he isn't ready for more yet.

 

I am still figuring out what to put on the forms, but you (all!) have been very helpful in figuring out that this really is what we need to do.

 

Thank you.

[threetreasurs]

I would share with them just what you have shared on this board.:)

[kailuamom]

Both of these kids (dd9 and ds7) are Davidson kids, very pg and very intense. (Pg here is profoundly gifted, these kids are at the extreme end of the bell curve.) I am not trying to give them work that is too difficult or too easy. The issue is *I* need a break from being the bad guy and assigning more work than they want to do. It is not at all that they are not capable of doing it only that they would prefer to put in less effort. *I* can not keep going with the designing of curriculum and establishing what is good enough. It is at the point where I am putting in more time writing it than they are doing it. And that is ridiculous.

 

The biggest advantage to Calvert that I see is the Daily Checklist. It has a list of items to be done each day. That way there is some attempt at balance. My son is almost eight and will not willingly write even a sentence on his own. He needs to learn how to do that and I need for there to be an objective party saying to do it. "Ds7 the lesson plan says to do this page. You need to do it, even if you don't like it." And "Dd9, I know that it requires you to think to do your math and that you would rather read a book. You need to do your math and you need to do these problems."

 

=quote]

 

------------- (not sure why I can't get the little blue box around the above!)

 

You might want to think about paying for the ATS service (not sure if you said you were doing that or not). We did not use it the first few years, but did this past year and the motiviation to get a grade of 1 in each subject motivates them to study. At least for the 6th grade that we did this year, the tests are rather detailed so you have to know a broad range of details for each subject. It may motivate them to actually check off the checklists.

 

It can be really stressful trying to decide what to do for each child, to know what is best for them, and your decisions are compounded by the gifted abilities of your dc. Good luck with all your research. You will do what is best for them and (in the long run at least? lol) they will appreciate it. All we can do is our best. :001_smile:

[Arch at Home]

I hate to say this your kids sound pretty normal with regards to motivation, at least in comparison to my house. I wish you best.

[JenneinCA]

Thanks for the smile. I know they are normal with regard to the motivation thing. It is normal for a nine year old to rather play neopets and webkinz than to do math. And it is normal for my seven year old to want to play wii all day.

 

The problem is from people in real life who comment about not pushing them to do the work because they are ahead. I am not pushing them because I want them to get farther ahead. I am trying to instill some sort of work ethic into them and in order to do that I need the material to be challenging enough to require thought.

 

Thank you for the smile. I really do need them some days.

[abbeyej]

I am not pushing them because I want them to get farther ahead. I am trying to instill some sort of work ethic into them and in order to do that I need the material to be challenging enough to require thought.

 

Oh, I'm *so* with you there! I'm really not "pushing" because I want to produce super-children. I "push" (and not much -- if anything I think I could do a little more of that, but I tend to get a bit lazy myself) because I want them to be in the habit of working, of striving for more than simply what comes easily to them. Sure they could do well at their grade level and ahead coasting along with zero effort, but I don't believe that coasting along with zero effort serves them in the long run.

 

I don't think any of us thought from your OP that your ds *couldn't* write or that your dd *wouldn't* do math. ;)

 

I do wonder if perhaps 4th wouldn't be a better placement for your son, just for content... But they do really ramp up the writing in 4th. 5th might actually have some good challenges for your dd in some areas (the history and geography, while not my favorite, is pretty in-depth), though I think she'll find the language arts material (which I really do like) may be somewhat simplistic for her strengths. 6th has the advantage of being written directly to the student, which might be good for her.

 

Let us know what happens after you send in the placement tests and talk to Calvert... I'm curious how it goes!

[JenneinCA]

Okay, here is the draft of the letter I am planning on sending to Calvert. Do you think this will work?

 

Amanda and Michael are both profoundly gifted children. They are in the Davidson Young Scholar Program and are incredibly bright kids. They have been under-challenged in the past and we are looking for a way to get adequate challenge by using Calvert.

 

Amanda has done Wordsmith Apprentice and Wordsmith. She has done part of Jensen Grammar. She has also completed through Grade 6 math using aleks.com. We started Algebra, but there were too many interruptions this year and we didn't make good progress and finally we had to stop.

 

Michael does copy work and is part way through Sequential Spelling 1. It is helping and he is learning how to spell much better than before. He completed Grade 5 math on aleks.com and was part way through Grade 6 when we had to stop.

 

We are looking at using Calvert this year primarily for the Daily Checklists. I need a defined list of things to get done each day. I am looking to challenge them without overwhelming them. One of our major goals this year is to for them to learn how to work and how to deal with challenging material. It is extremely important that, whatever the level it, not be easy.

 

Please look at the tests and help me to figure out where to place them.

 

Jennefer

 

 

Any changes?

[EKS]

Since the reader of your letter may not be familiar with the skills taught in the Wordsmiths and Jensen Grammar you might want to briefly state what she learned using them. You may also want to do the same with math, though most people have an idea of what Grade X math means. You might also want to specifically mention their academic strengths. For example, I know your kids are phenomenal readers but there is no mention of it here.

 

I really like your last paragraph. You might want to move it to the beginning, perhaps after the part about the kids being profoundly gifted. Then at the end you could maybe briefly restate the thing about wanting the material to be challenging but not overwhelming.

 

Good luck with this! Let us know how it goes.

[JenneinCA]

Thank you for the ideas for changes. I have moved the paragraph and detailed a bit about what they are reading and how much they write. I didn't say anything more about the math because the placement test for math was extremely complete. Other than the fact that my oldest forgot everything she ever knew about percents I am happy with what it said.

 

Here is an updated version of the letter (I put it in italics to separate it from the rest of the post):

 

Amanda and Michael are both profoundly gifted children. They are in the Davidson Young Scholar Program and are incredibly bright kids. They have been under-challenged in the past and we are looking for a way to get adequate challenge by using Calvert.

 

We are looking at using Calvert this year primarily for the Daily Checklists. I need a defined list of things to get done each day. I am looking to challenge them without overwhelming them. One of our major goals this year is to for them to learn how to work and how to deal with challenging material. It is extremely important that, whatever the level it, not be easy.

 

Amanda has done Wordsmith Apprentice and Wordsmith where she learned how to write a five paragraph essay. She has done part of Jensen Grammar where she learned about the parts of speech and how they work. She is an amazing reader. She read Harry Potter just before she turned four. She currently reads a wide range of books including teen and adult books. Her recent reads have included The Uglies and A History of the Ancient World. She has also completed through Grade 6 math using aleks.com. We started Algebra, but there were too many interruptions this year and we didn't make good progress and finally we had to stop.

 

Michael does copy work and is part way through Sequential Spelling 1. His copy work usually consists of the sentences he has dictated to me for answering the questions in his assignments. The essay that he wrote for the placement test, however, was all his. His spelling and his confidence in spelling is improving with Sequential Spelling. He likes knowing how to spell the longer words and I like having him know how to spell them too. He reads at a high level as well. He recently finished The Great Brain series of books and yesterday finished reading Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. He was very excited to finish such a long book. He completed Grade 5 math on aleks.com and was part way through Grade 6 when we had to stop. He loves doing math. And he especially loves the fact that he is more advanced at math than Amanda was at this age.

 

Please look at the tests and help me to figure out where to place them.

 

Jennefer

 

Any more ideas for changes?

[kailuamom]

I think it looks good! You can always tell them to call you to discuss anything further.

 

Good luck!

[threetreasurs]

It is extremely important that, whatever the level it, not be easy.

 

Just a misplaced comma

 

It is extremely important that, whatever the level, it not be easy.

[EKS]

Wow, Jenne! This is great!

[JenneinCA]

Thank you everyone for all your help. (I did fix the misplaced comma.) The tests are in an envelope waiting to go in the mail in the morning. I am so excited. I can not wait to have the results and better yet have the Calvert boxes arrive with the year's lesson plans waiting for me.

 

Thank you so much for helping with composing the letter and helping me to decide that this really is what we should be doing this year. Hooray!!!!

[threetreasurs]

Good luck - hope your school year is fabulous!