Non-mathy physics in 9th: Is Conceptual Physics a solid high school course?

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I would really like dd to do the physics, chemistry, biology line-up in high school. Dd is taking Alg. I in 8th, and I have been considering the algebra-based College Physics by Knight, Jones, and Field for 9th grade.

 

Here's the problem: She's taking CPO Foundations of Physical Science; she reads the chapters, answers all of the questions, and does labs with dh who is a mechanical engineer. BUT, she does not test well. I'm really beginning to think College Physics would not be fair to her.

 

She has told me that she needs someone to talk to about physics WHILE she is studying. Since her dad works, she has no one. I have NO physics experience. When she talks through concepts, she really gets it. In this respect, she enjoys physics. Doing poorly on the tests is discouraging to her.

 

What about Conceptual Physics for 9th grade? I've avoided this course because I have not been convinced that it is a solid high school course. It might be just the ticket, though especially if we could combine it with TTC Physics in Your Life which I have and also add labs.... beef it up.

 

If you've used this course, would you share the ISBN numbers to the text you like best.... there are several books I read about last night. Please tell me if CP would be a good substitute for College Physics. Also, what have you done to make it a solid high school course?

 

What other ways can we do non-mathy physics for credit in 9th grade? My goal is to use physics as a prep for chemistry (and chemistry as a prep for biology.)

 

Thanks!

Edited November 8, 2011 by Sweet Home Alabama

[MorningGlory]

I used Conceptual Physics as the primary physics text when I taught HS physics back in the day (at both a large, urban public HS and a large, elite, all-girls school). I absolutely loved it, and so did my students. I used the HS edition...not the college edition. I added in weekly labs which I got from a variety of sources (there are a lot on the internet) and quarterly projects (like egg drops and bridges and roller coasters and "inventions" and such). I also beefed up the math just a little when I thought it was appropriate, but I didn't do this very often because my primary goal was for the kids to learn the ideas and concepts of physics.

 

This course was wildly popular in both schools, and I had a lot of students move on to AP Physics B from Conceptual Physics (I used Giancoli for that course). The CP course was a perfect introduction to AP because the students already knew all the concepts! It made teaching the AP B level quite easy!

 

Anyway, I am a CP fan. I think YOU would enjoy it, too, Sweet Home. It is really enjoyable, fascinating reading! And I think it would be perfect for 9th grade.

 

I have to log off so I can't gush on...but I can answer more of your questions over the course of several days.

 

HTH!

Jetta

 

P.S. Neither school put "Conceptual Physics" on the kids' transcripts. They both just put Physics or Physics I.

[Miss Marple]

It is an excellent high school course. It is even used as a college level course for non-science majors. Your daughter may find that she enjoys it so much she wants to continue with physics in high school. At that point you can find a lot of other programs - but they are more math intensive.

 

I've used it for physics for all of my boys. The 2 oldest boys are in Engineering programs. One will graduate this May with a degree in Pet. Engineering (top 5 of his graduating class), the other has just begun mechanical engineering. Using CP as their high school physics course was not detrimental to their college experience at all.

 

CP is one of the top 5 favorite courses we've used in our homeschool. Although I no longer teach it (I taught it for years in our co-op), I did keep the texts because they are just so great!

 

I used the 3rd edition high school text. I was able to purchase a complete school pkg complete with tests, overheads, etc. I used some of the labs in the lab book, but many were not compatible with our few resources so I substituted with other labs I found on the internet. There is a website tied to the text which is fantastic. It offers simulations, solutions, etc. We had so much fun with this class.

[In The Great White North]

:iagree: I used the older edition of the college text (which is not much different from the high school text.) Ds loved it and continued to a second year of physics with the Halliday text (calc based.) He's now doing computer science at USAFA and was admitted to all the schools he applied to. They all seemed to think it was an appropriate high school course.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I added in weekly labs which I got from a variety of sources (there are a lot on the internet) and quarterly projects (like egg drops and bridges and roller coasters and "inventions" and such). I also beefed up the math just a little when I thought it was appropriate, but I didn't do this very often because my primary goal was for the kids to learn the ideas and concepts of physics.

 

Would you please tell me what labs you used and how you beefed up the math? I wanted dd to have at least some math.

This course was wildly popular in both schools, and I had a lot of students move on to AP Physics B from Conceptual Physics (I used Giancoli for that course). The CP course was a perfect introduction to AP because the students already knew all the concepts! It made teaching the AP B level quite easy!

 

Since I have College Physics, would it be appropriate to use this algebra-based physics as a follow-up high school course to CP?

 

 

HTH!

Jetta

 

P.S. Neither school put "Conceptual Physics" on the kids' transcripts. They both just put Physics or Physics I.

 

This is good to know.

 

It is an excellent high school course. It is even used as a college level course for non-science majors. Your daughter may find that she enjoys it so much she wants to continue with physics in high school. At that point you can find a lot of other programs - but they are more math intensive.

 

I've used it for physics for all of my boys. The 2 oldest boys are in Engineering programs. One will graduate this May with a degree in Pet. Engineering (top 5 of his graduating class), the other has just begun mechanical engineering. Using CP as their high school physics course was not detrimental to their college experience at all.

 

 

Same question: Could I use the algebra-based physics as a follow-up to CP? I'm not sure she'll ever be interested in cal-based physics.

 

:iagree: I used the older edition of the college text (which is not much different from the high school text.) Ds loved it and continued to a second year of physics with the Halliday text (calc based.) He's now doing computer science at USAFA and was admitted to all the schools he applied to. They all seemed to think it was an appropriate high school course.

 

 

Thank you!

To you all... do you think CP would require the same need to TALK about the concepts? I have NO physics background, and dh works. Dd needs a physics that is more understandable... one that would not require the same kind of discussion to make the ideas concrete to her.

Please tell me more about this.

Thank you all so much!

[PeterPan]

I got a chance to look over the hs level CP text this past week, and it's DEFINITELY less intimidating than the college level one, mercy. The font is larger, etc. I think your issue though is that she's already not comprehending when she reads and tackles the physical science on her own. Since we're kinda right there ourselves, I'll just say I don't see how that changes. Hewitt has a lot of online resources, so you might check his site. It might be you'd do better to have some dvd lessons. (DIVE, Derek Owens, the videos at Hewitt, whatever) I liked what I saw in that hs CP book, but it's not light. Our local, very good high school is using it along with Foerster pre-calc for an integrated math/physics class. That means it's typically juniors taking it at this particular school.

 

Have you thought about using the CP but getting her a tutor for it?

[Lori D.]

It's quite easy to read Conceptual Physics along with your student and learn alongside them. If you are doing it at a very gentle level, you would not need to also buy the accompanying Problem Solving Workbook, but could just use selected problems at the end of each chapter. Also, we found it difficult to do the experiments in the accompanying Lab Manual -- required too much expensive, specialized classroom equipment. However, we were able to match up labs by using many of the experiments in a number of the TOPS units and from kits from Home Science Tools. Below is an overview of what we used:

 

 

CONCEPTUAL PHYSICS by Paul Hewitt (c. 2002)

 

UNIT 1 = MECHANICS (chap. 1-16)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Motion

- Homescience Tools Physics Kit

 

 

UNIT 2 = PROPERTIES OF MATTER (chap. 17-20)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Kinetic Model (only experiments #1-8 match up with the text)

- TOPS Floating & Sinking

- TOPS Pressure

 

 

UNIT 3 = HEAT (chap. 21-24)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Heat

 

 

UNIT IV = SOUND AND LIGHT (chap. 25-31)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Sound

- TOPS Light

- Home Science Tools: Lens Set Activities

- TOPS Focus Pocus

 

 

UNIT V = ELECTRICITY AND MAGNETISM (chap 32-37)

- 101 Safe & Simple Electrical Experiments book and kit

 

 

UNIT VI: ATOMIC AND NUCLEAR PHYSICS (chap. 38-40)

- none

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I got a chance to look over the hs level CP text this past week, and it's DEFINITELY less intimidating than the college level one, mercy. The font is larger, etc. I think your issue though is that she's already not comprehending when she reads and tackles the physical science on her own. Since we're kinda right there ourselves, I'll just say I don't see how that changes. Hewitt has a lot of online resources, so you might check his site. It might be you'd do better to have some dvd lessons. (DIVE, Derek Owens, the videos at Hewitt, whatever) I liked what I saw in that hs CP book, but it's not light. Our local, very good high school is using it along with Foerster pre-calc for an integrated math/physics class. That means it's typically juniors taking it at this particular school.

 

Have you thought about using the CP but getting her a tutor for it?

 

 

A tutor would be the perfect idea. I need to ask around to see if someone in our area could do this. Currently, I know of no one.

 

I showed the Derek Owens on-line class to dd. For her, it had the same downfall as a textbook approach..... no direct communication with the teacher. You'll remember, Elizabeth, that we took the BJU Life Science DVD course which was just awesome. So, she's had experience with at least this one DVD class.

 

My whole goal is to use the physics first line-up to prep for each layer of high school science. This just seems to make such sense to me.

 

Maybe is there a different way to get this job done? I'm just wondering about out-of-the-box ideas, and I'm open to any suggestions.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

It's quite easy to read Conceptual Physics along with your student and learn alongside them. If you are doing it at a very gentle level, you would not need to also buy the accompanying Problem Solving Workbook, but could just use selected problems at the end of each chapter. Also, we found it difficult to do the experiments in the accompanying Lab Manual -- required too much expensive, specialized classroom equipment. However, we were able to match up labs by using many of the experiments in a number of the TOPS units and from kits from Home Science Tools. Below is an overview of what we used:

 

 

CONCEPTUAL PHYSICS by Paul Hewitt (c. 2002)

 

UNIT 1 = MECHANICS (chap. 1-16)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Motion

- Homescience Tools Physics Kit

 

 

UNIT 2 = PROPERTIES OF MATTER (chap. 17-20)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Kinetic Model (only experiments #1-8 match up with the text)

- TOPS Floating & Sinking

- TOPS Pressure

 

 

UNIT 3 = HEAT (chap. 21-24)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Heat

 

 

UNIT IV = SOUND AND LIGHT (chap. 25-31)

- hands-on in the textbook chapters

- TOPS Sound

- TOPS Light

- Home Science Tools: Lens Set Activities

- TOPS Focus Pocus

 

 

UNIT V = ELECTRICITY AND MAGNETISM (chap 32-37)

- 101 Safe & Simple Electrical Experiments book and kit

 

 

UNIT VI: ATOMIC AND NUCLEAR PHYSICS (chap. 38-40)

- none

 

Lori, wouldn't TOPS add an element of fun to CP? I'll definitely look into these. Thank you so much for responding! How did you test? I would think any high school class needs some quantifiable proof of understanding.

 

Thats another good question for anyone... Testing Conceptual Physics... What kinds of ways can you test the information in this course? Dd doesn't seem to test as well as she would like. This discourages her. She is a bright student! She's working on test taking skills, but this isn't coming easily.

[regentrude]

Testing Conceptual Physics... What kinds of ways can you test the information in this course? Dd doesn't seem to test as well as she would like. This discourages her. She is a bright student! She's working on test taking skills, but this isn't coming easily.

 

You can test in a variety of ways. One issue with different forms of testing is the assessment; some require evaluation by somebody who knows the material thoroughly.

- search the web and find multiple choice exams from instructors who use this text for their classes. Can be graded easily.

- give her selected end-of-chapter problems and have her work them out

(these can be problems from sets she has prepared beforehand, or problems you skipped and "saved" for this purpose). This will be easy to grade if you have access to a solution manual

- give her essay questions and have her explain concepts. This might require grading by somebody who understands physics.

- having her do oral presentations with visuals on selected topics (goal can be to make topics understandable to a non-expert).

- giving a comprehensive oral exam (that would require an expert to administer and grade)

[snowbeltmom]

I purchased Conceptual Physics 10th edition and the Problem Solving in Conceptual Physics workbook to use next year for my middle child.

 

Is there a solutions manual for the workbook?

[Miss Marple]

 

Thats another good question for anyone... Testing Conceptual Physics... What kinds of ways can you test the information in this course? Dd doesn't seem to test as well as she would like. This discourages her. She is a bright student! She's working on test taking skills, but this isn't coming easily.

 

We used the tests that came with the course most of the time. However, it was very easy to pick a few questions from each chapter (end of the chapter has a ton of questions) and use those for creating a test. I often did this and substituted questions from the test package with end of the chapter questions.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

You can test in a variety of ways. One issue with different forms of testing is the assessment; some require evaluation by somebody who knows the material thoroughly.

- search the web and find multiple choice exams from instructors who use this text for their classes. Can be graded easily.

- give her selected end-of-chapter problems and have her work them out

(these can be problems from sets she has prepared beforehand, or problems you skipped and "saved" for this purpose). This will be easy to grade if you have access to a solution manual

- give her essay questions and have her explain concepts. This might require grading by somebody who understands physics.

- having her do oral presentations with visuals on selected topics (goal can be to make topics understandable to a non-expert).

- giving a comprehensive oral exam (that would require an expert to administer and grade)

 

Regentrude, thank you for these ideas. Dd loves drawing/crafts. She is also a pretty good writer. I can see how she would thrive on having to do an oral presentation with visuals and write an essay as well. Somehow, by testing this way, I can imagine her reporting on several related physics concepts at once.... linking them together... having a show and tell of how they relate to everyday life.... maybe. This opens up a whole new world. This is the kind of physics she needs. Lori's suggestion of using TOPS might be a good way to accomplish this. I need to refresh myself on the TOPS topics she referred to.

 

Again, thank you!

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I used the 3rd edition high school text. I was able to purchase a complete school pkg complete with tests, overheads, etc. I used some of the labs in the lab book, but many were not compatible with our few resources so I substituted with other labs I found on the internet. There is a website tied to the text which is fantastic. It offers simulations, solutions, etc. We had so much fun with this class.

 

 

Cynthia, please tell me where I could look at all of these resourses.... tests too. Thank you for responding! :001_smile:

 

I've seen the text book, but I didn't know there were overheads as well.

[In The Great White North]

Thats another good question for anyone... Testing Conceptual Physics... What kinds of ways can you test the information in this course? Dd doesn't seem to test as well as she would like. This discourages her. She is a bright student! She's working on test taking skills, but this isn't coming easily.

 

I bought it at a used book store and it came with a book called the "Test Bank" of multiple choice questions (and answers.) Since dc had no experience with M/C tests from the Waldorf experience and the SATs were coming soon, we used that. It improved their test-taking skills dramatically.

[Brenda in MA]

I definitely think the book is worthy of a high school physics credit. If your dd completes CP, then Chemistry, then Biology, then you'll have an "extra" year of high school where she could do a more advanced science course if she is interested.

 

My son and I both loved, loved CP. I will agree with Cynthia that it's one of our all-time favorite curriculum choices. I also think that you could sit with your daughter and read through the book together and discuss it. If you come across something that is tricky, make a note of it and discuss it with your dh later.

 

After using CP, and Spectrum Chem, my son is using PH Biology this year with Kolbe's syllabus. The course is going very well. There is definitely quite a bit of Chemistry in this Bio book, and the inverted sequence has served him very well in this regard.

 

I'd definitely recommend the high school CP book over the college version. The high school one has more graphics and a slightly bigger font.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I definitely think the book is worthy of a high school physics credit. If your dd completes CP, then Chemistry, then Biology, then you'll have an "extra" year of high school where she could do a more advanced science course if she is interested.

 

My son and I both loved, loved CP. I will agree with Cynthia that it's one of our all-time favorite curriculum choices. I also think that you could sit with your daughter and read through the book together and discuss it. If you come across something that is tricky, make a note of it and discuss it with your dh later.

 

After using CP, and Spectrum Chem, my son is using PH Biology this year with Kolbe's syllabus. The course is going very well. There is definitely quite a bit of Chemistry in this Bio book, and the inverted sequence has served him very well in this regard.

 

I'd definitely recommend the high school CP book over the college version. The high school one has more graphics and a slightly bigger font.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

 

Thank you, Brenda! Which edition did you use? If you just happen to have the ISBN handy, I'd love to have it.

[Miss Marple]

The go-alongs are sometimes difficult to find, but I would suggest searching Amazon for: Hewitt Conceptual Physics: The High School Physics Program and see what go-alongs are available now. I personally wouldn't use the overheads at home because they were the same as the graphics in the book. They were useful for classroom use, though. The lab book is readily available as is the Problem Solving book and several others. The test book is more difficult to find. I sold all my go-alongs and only kept the TM (because it is just like the student text but with side bars and answers).

[Mom22ns]

I was wondering what online resources Pearson has to go with this text. Does anyone know? We are using M/L Biology and totally love the successnet resources. I would love to find Chemistry and Physics with this same setup.

[Lori D.]

it was very easy to pick a few questions from each chapter (end of the chapter has a ton of questions) and use those for creating a test.

 

 

This is what we did for testing.

[Miss Marple]

I was wondering what online resources Pearson has to go with this text. Does anyone know? We are using M/L Biology and totally love the successnet resources. I would love to find Chemistry and Physics with this same setup.

The Physics Classroom

[snowbeltmom]

The Physics Classroom

 

This site is great. Thanks for sharing!

[Teacher Mom]

If you buy from Pearson, you can get the tests, books (text, extra problem solving, reading and study notebook, concept development practice book,etc), teachers' materials, and virtual physics labs. You could also use The Physics Place which has some clips of Hewitt's videos and other stuff. With http://www.physicsplace.com, you either buy access or request access using the links. The high school textbook indicated is not exactly the same in layout so you just use the pull down bar to access the chapters you want.

[Jen the RD]

She has told me that she needs someone to talk to about physics WHILE she is studying. Since her dad works, she has no one. I have NO physics experience. When she talks through concepts, she really gets it. In this respect, she enjoys physics. Doing poorly on the tests is discouraging to her.

 

Sweet home alabama, I thought I'd let you know that this is EXACTLY what my dd says, too! We started out the year with her reading a section and then discussing it together in a lecture style format where I draw/write on whiteboard. She was still not always getting it. So, she asked me if we could read the material together, discussing it, and taking notes at the same time. This has accomplished much more understanding on her part. Her improved comprehension has made a big difference on the section reviews and ch. assessments.

 

You can test in a variety of ways. One issue with different forms of testing is the assessment; some require evaluation by somebody who knows the material thoroughly.

- search the web and find multiple choice exams from instructors who use this text for their classes. Can be graded easily.

- give her selected end-of-chapter problems and have her work them out

(these can be problems from sets she has prepared beforehand, or problems you skipped and "saved" for this purpose). This will be easy to grade if you have access to a solution manual

- give her essay questions and have her explain concepts. This might require grading by somebody who understands physics.

- having her do oral presentations with visuals on selected topics (goal can be to make topics understandable to a non-expert).

- giving a comprehensive oral exam (that would require an expert to administer and grade)

 

Regentrude, I just had to say thanks for the additional assessment/test ideas. I've been making up my own tests with original questions and re-worked end of chapter problems, but I love these additional ideas. Dd will enjoy them as well. ;)

Jennifer

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Sweet home alabama, I thought I'd let you know that this is EXACTLY what my dd says, too! We started out the year with her reading a section and then discussing it together in a lecture style format where I draw/write on whiteboard. She was still not always getting it. So, she asked me if we could read the material together, discussing it, and taking notes at the same time. This has accomplished much more understanding on her part. Her improved comprehension has made a big difference on the section reviews and ch. assessments.

 

 

 

 

 

So interesting, Jenn. We might have to try this... dd enjoys working independently (except for discussing concepts), but isn't enjoying the CPO Foundations text and asked to try something else today. I showed her the College Physics book, and she's going to read the chapter in College Physics book that corresponds with the next chapter in CPO just to see what she thinks about it. She is a very determined girl. College Physics is a little much for her to bite off right now, but I'm not going to discourage her.

 

Did you ever consider Conceptual Physics?

Edited November 9, 2011 by Sweet Home Alabama

[Jen the RD]

Did you ever consider Conceptual Physics?

 

Yes, I have considered using it in the future, but I'm not sure about next year. This is only my opinion, but for some kids physics concepts click and for others, understanding some of the abstract thoughts require more maturity. I think my dd might do better with physics as an older student, so I'll probably hold off. I know that many people feel that "physics first" is the "best approach", but I don't agree with that in all cases. I'm not making a decision until much later this year. I want to see how dd progresses through this entry level course and algebra. Then I'll make an assessment.

 

HTH,

Jennifer