Frustration already?

[Mommybostic]

My son is leaving ps during Christmas break. We are already afterschooling.

 

So far, we haven't covered any topics that he wasn't at least a little familiar with. Finally, today, we started working with circles in pre-algebra, and it was new material to him. He became very frustrated because it was tough, though he was able to get it in what I considered a very reasonable amount of time.

 

Here's my worry: when we start homeschooling in January, I have no intentions of spending the remaining part of what was his fifth grade year reviewing what he already knows. I will be introducing, though slowly, Latin and logic. This child has never really been challenged outside his comfort level. I don't want to push him too hard and make him VERY frustrated, but the point of my homeschooling in the first place is to educate him in a way that will never be possible in ps. Isn't some frustration during the adjustment period unavoidable?

[Capt_Uhura]

Is it unavoidable....I'd say it depends on the kid but from what you are saying, perhaps not. I believe I cautioned you about this in your previous thread. It was a HUGE blow to my DS's self-esteem and believe me, I eased him into it. He still says that HSing is hard but not in a negative tone. It just took repeating over and over and over....that's why we're HSing, so you'll be challenged. I'd rather him have this awakening now rather than high school or college like so many I've read about it. We have time to pick up the pieces and lesson the damage. I don't think my son thinks of himself as smart any longer b/c he has to work just a little in some subjects....but I think that is a good thing. I want him to learn that focus, perseverance, and hard work is what ultimately matters.

[PeterPan]

I guess I'm confused by your question. If you're asking whether your child will melt down, no one can say. I can say I wouldn't push ALL subjects to that point. Have variety and alternate easy and hard. Keep some things intentionally light. It's not necessary to work to the max in all things, and he'll be very tired and without energy for his own interests if you do.

 

As far as your statement about not spending the rest of 5th gr reviewing what he already knows, that could mean that you plan to start new subjects, OR it could indicate a lack of flexibility. He may NOT be quite as solid on things here or there as you anticipate. You won't know till you get into it. I think your drive to create consistency and a plan is good and even better if it fits with his personality or emotional needs. But consistency doesn't have to be tied to level.

[regentrude]

I found homeschooling to be completely different from afterschooling.

I pulled DS out of 5th grade in January, too. He was not challenged, but yet would not want to do anything after school - to him seven hours of school was enough! Even though I understand that and can't blame him, I was very worried about homeschooling him. I was afraid he might fight me about work.

 

Homeschooling him surpassed my wildest dreams. It was like having a different child at home. Not being forced to spend all those hours on busy work, he was excited to tackle new subjects, to learn new things. He developed interest in his work.

 

I am not saying it will be like this for every child - but you may be surprised to see the changes in your son.

Oh, and we did jump right in with NEW stuff. We left behind the whole school curriculum and began by giving HIM choices about topics to study. For teh first time, I had a say in his education. He was thrilled and motivated.

[Mommybostic]

Is it unavoidable....I'd say it depends on the kid but from what you are saying, perhaps not. I believe I cautioned you about this in your previous thread. It was a HUGE blow to my DS's self-esteem and believe me, I eased him into it. He still says that HSing is hard but not in a negative tone. It just took repeating over and over and over....that's why we're HSing, so you'll be challenged. I'd rather him have this awakening now rather than high school or college like so many I've read about it. We have time to pick up the pieces and lesson the damage. I don't think my son thinks of himself as smart any longer b/c he has to work just a little in some subjects....but I think that is a good thing. I want him to learn that focus, perseverance, and hard work is what ultimately matters.

 

AMEN! I think this happened to me in college, and that was what finished me. I do remember you mentioning it. It's a wonderful point, I guess, that he can learn to overcome that hurdle while I am there with him to help him and guide him. The frustrating part for me is convincing him that he is still a very bright kid. You don't know everything from day one--all of us have to learn. And to me, he learns very quickly.

 

I could really kick myself for not doing this from the start. I think I mentioned THAT in a previous post, too.

[Mommybostic]

I found homeschooling to be completely different from afterschooling.

I pulled DS out of 5th grade in January, too. He was not challenged, but yet would not want to do anything after school - to him seven hours of school was enough! Even though I understand that and can't blame him, I was very worried about homeschooling him. I was afraid he might fight me about work.

 

Homeschooling him surpassed my wildest dreams. It was like having a different child at home. Not being forced to spend all those hours on busy work, he was excited to tackle new subjects, to learn new things. He developed interest in his work.

 

I am not saying it will be like this for every child - but you may be surprised to see the changes in your son.

Oh, and we did jump right in with NEW stuff. We left behind the whole school curriculum and began by giving HIM choices about topics to study. For teh first time, I had a say in his education. He was thrilled and motivated.

 

I appreciate this post. Quite honestly, I do dread that he will fight me on every single subject and that every day will basically be one long argument. While I know that's not reality, that's just what the little voices in my mind say, you know? And I ALSO know that there will be some arguments, especially in the beginning and especially about the writing!

 

I want him to study what interests him, but sooner or later everyone has to study something that isn't going to be at the top of their list. I guess it's a fine line to walk, pushing them without going over the top. It's a learning process for everyone, not just him!

[Capt_Uhura]

I appreciate this post. Quite honestly, I do dread that he will fight me on every single subject and that every day will basically be one long argument. While I know that's not reality, that's just what the little voices in my mind say, you know? And I ALSO know that there will be some arguments, especially in the beginning and especially about the writing!

 

I want him to study what interests him, but sooner or later everyone has to study something that isn't going to be at the top of their list. I guess it's a fine line to walk, pushing them without going over the top. It's a learning process for everyone, not just him!

 

Yes, my son battled me for months. I had afterschooled him also but HSing was a whole different ball of wax. Suddenly, it was "What do you mean I can't wake up and play with LEGOs?" Oh yes, the writing! I did go for quality rather than quality so I tried to cut out any "busy work" writing and took dictation when necessary. But you just have to slowly increase the expectations, build those muscles.

 

I don't think it was the content that was challenging for him. I think that first year I didn't advance him enough but I wanted to make sure there weren't any deep holes. I think the issue was effort. He even said that in class, he only needed to pay attention for a few minutes, it only took him minutes to do the work, then he'd just sit there. So I was asking him to pay attention for 30min at a stretch and it was fatiguing for him. The psych even mentioned that DS seemed to fatigue quickly during the testing. When I saw how short his attention span was, when as a 4-5yr old, people commented on his long attention span, I cried. It's taken time but I slowly built up his ability to focus and put forth effort for extended periods of time.

 

Recently he's been having issues w/ noise from his siblings. I asked him how he ever survived in public school. He said it was easy. B/c he finished his work so quickly, before anyone else, there was no noise while he was working.

 

It's a fine line talking about being bright. DS had a very low opinion of his math skills b/c he saw everyone in class memorizing their times tables. He would come home and say "Jimmy is getting smarter b/c he passed his 3s times tables today!" So the corollary to that was that he was not smart b/c he hadn't yet passed his. Yet, conceptually he was way ahead of his peers. I recall a conversation with a school friend. J said how easy it was too memorize the times tables. My son commented that it wasn't easy for everyone. Later that day, J's mom commented on how J had made a connection between multiplication and division that week. Well, my son had made that connection at least 4 years earlier but my son totally equates math skill w/ rote mechanics. So, yes, it's a fine line.....not giving them a big head but also realistically talking to them about their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Mommybostic - I will forever regret sending him to school. Partly b/c we lost 3yrs of his time. Intellectually, he could be further along and likely happier w/ his learning but I wanted to lay a good foundation. Now 3yrs later, we're pretty much where he needs to be. It's tough when you have a mom who likes to be systematic about things and a DS who likes to just make leaps ahead. But I think we've found a happy medium.

 

Anyhow, I've rambled enough.

 

capt_Uhura

[Mommybostic]

The attention span is definately an issue--just like you said, so little is required of him now in ps. He can pay attention to something that interests him, just like any of us, I guess, but there again sooner or later you have to learn things that aren't necessarily your favorite subjects.

 

I already see holes, and I think that is probably how we ended up where we are right now. When I started formally afterschooling this year, more and more came to my attention.

 

I suppose I'll just have to let the past go and forget about what we did or didn't do, stop trying to "catch up," and just move forward from here.

[Capt_Uhura]

I suppose I'll just have to let the past go and forget about what we did or didn't do, stop trying to "catch up," and just move forward from here.

 

YES!!!! No use crying over spilt milk. What I did do was to do math everyday and we went as fast as possible. I told him, if you know it, show me. If he could explain the concept to me well, and do the first few problems, we moved on. I later found that he would forget so I had to make notes to myself that every month or so, have him go back to certain pages and work 2-3 problems. That really seems to help w/ his retention. ONe thing I read from a psych was that for kids who learn instantly and effortlessly, retention can be low. If you have to sink your teeth into a concept for a week or more, work many problems, discuss it, do a few more problems, you've had time to make multiple neural pathways for that concept. But if you get it instantly, you make 1 pathway. You move on. IF that pathway is not engaged again, it can deteriorate. I've seen that with my son over and over and over. NOw your son is likely very different, but I just point this out that I initially regretted having gone so quickly through material with him but he would have bored stiff. What I found to work, was to give him new material and periodically review old. I'm still doing it with Math Mammoth. I have so many tabs of things that every few weeks I say, "Find the yellow tab and do two problems."

 

Anyhow, let us know how it is going. You sound so much like me that I feel the need to go on and on and on. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Hey Uhura, you're speaking my language! This has totally been dd. We've been doing pre-algebra stuff, and she got so rusty on old stuff I've been worried stiff. You'd THINK it would be pretty cummulative, but it isn't. So are you using the topical or grade-leveled MM books to do this? And yes, we'll probably get a neuropsych evaluation one of these days, just haven't done it yet. Anything else fascinating this man said?

[Capt_Uhura]

I'm using the regular MM not the topical ones. My DS10 has completed RSA-E and is around 30s-40s in RS Geo. I knew RS didn't go deep enough into decimals, fractions and percents so we went into MM 5A. I have SM as well but my friend convinced me to try MM. He's a few weeks shy of finishing MM5A (we started in October). It's all been review but needed review so I've tried to go quickly as said and then dropping back to do problems here and there. For example, there are the number crosswords. instead of doing that all in one day, I spread it out over multiple sessions and use it as review. In fact, I read here I think that Ms. Miller suggested this...that she didn't intend for every child to do every problem on the page but rather save some and go back to them for review. Honestly, I'd rather have that built in, less work for me lol.

 

That was the thing that jumped out at me. I've seen that stated on articles about gifted kids as well. I've also seen articles stating that for some bright kids, too much review actually causes less retention. I wonder if it's b/c they bored and tune it out. That's why I like revisiting every few months. If I wait a year to review, DS gets frustrated b/c he knows he did that before and it frustrates him to have to "learn" it again. He's such a tough kid to figure out. Sigh..... Luckily, my DS7 is pretty straight forward. He presents completely different issues. His issue is being a VERY loud and active boy being born to a very quiet mother. I feel like I'm constantly shushing him or reigning him in. My oldest is quiet, reflective, and contemplative. My friend told me wasn't typical and not to think anything is wrong w/ DS7 b/c he's a typical boy. :lol: But the noise and his movement is overwhelming being with him all. day. long. He said, out of the blue, that he can't think unless he's moving. I've noticed that now that it's winter and he's not getting out as much, he's chewing his clothes. Must make note to self to get that boy exercising and running on the treadmill.

 

anyhow, how did I get here? :lol:

 

Capt_Uhura

[PeterPan]

Yes, our SLP said to watch for regression or problems in the winter from not getting out enough.

 

If they do a lot, they just turn off their brains and follow the pattern.

 

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing.

[Capt_Uhura]

Yes, our SLP said to watch for regression or problems in the winter from not getting out enough.

 

If they do a lot, they just turn off their brains and follow the pattern.

 

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing.

 

Yes, I think that must be it. For him it's better to have a few problems which really make him think and move on...then review months later w/ a few more thinking problems.

 

You're welcome!

[lisabees]

MommyBostic, I, too, am bringing ds home in January. He's a fifth grader as well. I'm sure we'll have tons of stories to share!

 

One thing that shocked my other boys was the fact that they always have to "be on". In the first week of hs, my 7th grader said, "This is sooo much harder than public school!!" I asked why and he said, "in public school, the teacher does all the talking and I don't have to pay attention." My 11th grader just expressed a similar thought last week - he said there is so much more personal responsibility in homeschool. For a high schooler, new to hs, that fact can be very stressful.

 

So...remember that your ds will be exhausted from truly learning. He will work hard for hours a day. Very different from passively learning in public school.

 

I am curious to see how ds will react to hs. He has been begging since last year. In ps, he is known as the smart kid. He wants to come home to learn more deeply and to be challenged. We'll see what that does to his self esteem when he has to work so hard. Thanks for that insight. ;)

[Capt_Uhura]

We all have 5th graders!!!

 

Lisabees - Definitely :iagree: with what you said. My DS said the same thing about HSing...that it was hard b/c he was always "on." At school, there was so. much. down. time. and that was driving him insane.

[lisabees]

We all have 5th graders!!!

 

Lisabees - Definitely :iagree: with what you said. My DS said the same thing about HSing...that it was hard b/c he was always "on." At school, there was so. much. down. time. and that was driving him insane.

 

I'm in good company!!! :001_smile:

[Mom22ns]

I found homeschooling to be completely different from afterschooling.

I pulled DS out of 5th grade in January, too. He was not challenged, but yet would not want to do anything after school - to him seven hours of school was enough! Even though I understand that and can't blame him, I was very worried about homeschooling him. I was afraid he might fight me about work.

 

This was my experience too. As long as my kids were in ps they were very difficult for me to work with. When they became full time homeschoolers, most of those frustrations disappeared. I think it was a combination of things that helped. First, they weren't already tired when we started. Second, I learned their true level in each subject and how much was a challenge and how much was too much. Sure, we've had frustrating days, but not nearly as frustrating as ps days.

[Mommybostic]

This was my experience too. As long as my kids were in ps they were very difficult for me to work with. When they became full time homeschoolers, most of those frustrations disappeared. I think it was a combination of things that helped. First, they weren't already tired when we started. Second, I learned their true level in each subject and how much was a challenge and how much was too much. Sure, we've had frustrating days, but not nearly as frustrating as ps days.

 

This is my view--NOTHING could be as frustrating as dealing with the public school system, especially in this county!

[lisabees]

ONe thing I read from a psych was that for kids who learn instantly and effortlessly, retention can be low. If you have to sink your teeth into a concept for a week or more, work many problems, discuss it, do a few more problems, you've had time to make multiple neural pathways for that concept. But if you get it instantly, you make 1 pathway. You move on. IF that pathway is not engaged again, it can deteriorate. I've seen that with my son over and over and over. NOw your son is likely very different, but I just point this out that I initially regretted having gone so quickly through material with him but he would have bored stiff. What I found to work, was to give him new material and periodically review old. I'm still doing it with Math Mammoth. I have so many tabs of things that every few weeks I say, "Find the yellow tab and do two problems."

 

 

Ds learns things easily, so I will keep this in mind and use your wonderful idea.

[Hunter]

Buy some Skittles :-) Do one challenging problem at a time. You and DS race to see who gets the right answer first. The winner gets a skittle. Challenge in very tiny bursts and offer a reward.

 

Do challenging things out loud, instead of in writing, when possible.

 

Offer challenging material that doesn't require a response, or that doesn't have a "right" answer.

[alexia]

Is it unavoidable....I'd say it depends on the kid but from what you are saying, perhaps not. I believe I cautioned you about this in your previous thread. It was a HUGE blow to my DS's self-esteem and believe me, I eased him into it. He still says that HSing is hard but not in a negative tone. It just took repeating over and over and over....that's why we're HSing, so you'll be challenged. I'd rather him have this awakening now rather than high school or college like so many I've read about it. We have time to pick up the pieces and lesson the damage. I don't think my son thinks of himself as smart any longer b/c he has to work just a little in some subjects....but I think that is a good thing. I want him to learn that focus, perseverance, and hard work is what ultimately matters.

:iagree:I am going through what OP and you have described. But, it's probably worse than your son. My son has been in PS for 7 years.(if you count the pre-k). It is truly an awakening experience for me. He was one of the top students there. All the teachers just loved him! Now that he's home I see the "fruits" of low expectation, passive learning, non-challenging material, emotional dependency on teacher/piers, reward/praise/punishment type of external motivators. I am having hard time easing into HSing. But, as I have been on the board reading posts like yours and I am encouraged and learning how to help my son.

Thank you!

[Capt_Uhura]

I should add though while I said it was hard, it was really only HARD from September to December of that first year. It got easier. Then DS went through a funk from Jan to Feb (SADD????) but by spring, HSing was fun and we both learned a lot!!!! The next year was hard b/c I then added my 1st grader so it was like learning how to HS all over again since I was now juggling two along w/ a toddler. I'm now in my 3rd and I feel like I have the hang of it. Interestingly, my teacher friends say it took them about 3yrs to feel like they were becoming good teachers. Right now I'm focusing on my patience.....serenity now....serenity now.....serenity now.....:lol:

 

Does anyone have some patience to spare? How about noise canceling head phones you could send me?

[Mommybostic]

Sorry, Uhura, but I'm fresh out of patience. If I find any extra, I'll let you know. Maybe.

[Jamee]

I was here this time last year with my 4th grader--I too have a fifth grader now.:D We pulled him just before the Christmas break as well. I would say to expect some frustration. We had a rough time there in the beginning and didn't get it worked out until we had a discussion of expectations, what I expeced from home school and what he expected. We were on two different paths! Once we got it worked out that he'd be working "more" and that I expected more of him, it smoothed out. When we started this fall, it was amazing and I'm so happy with the progress he's been making. (He thought he'd have less school, always be done before lunch and have more "free time." )

 

There were a couple subjects that had issues. Math became difficult for him and he had to work at it, but in talking we found that he much preferred the style of Saxon over the "boring" textbook he had in school. Science, his all-time favorite subject, until he discovered history, was difficult too. Since he now had regular science it wasn't as "fun" as he wanted it to be. That is something we are still working on, but he's come to realize there's more to science than what he thought.

 

Wishing you all the best. I think once you both get through the transition it should all go well.:grouphug: