How much emphasis on formal manners?

[hillfarm]

This is kind of rambling because I am still bouncing it around in my head.

 

I just received an invite for my 12yo dd and I to attend a formal tea party this holiday season. The invitation specified dressy attire and encouraged fancy hats. Tea and scones will be served and apparently there will be party games, etc. Dd is not a very "girly" girl and I am not a very "elegant" woman. We both tend more toward the practical.

 

We live in a fairly rural area and to date I have emphasized much more earthy things like animal husbandry and survival skills rather than high society manners. Weddings are about the fanciest event I have been to in the 11 years we have lived here. And they tended to be buffet style.

 

Today, for example, we are baking a couple of pans of brownies to take to the local Ladies' Aid fund raiser dinner that is being served to local hunters this first week of gun season for white tailed deer. There will be a sea of blaze orange, the aroma of gun oil and gunpowder, and hopefully a dead animal in the back of every truck. This is the predominant type of social gathering we have here.

 

Dh and I do expect decent table manners and we have covered most basics. IMO, my dd has very good social skills and is quite adept at making people feel comfortable around her. Other parents have commented on this. But I am unsure regarding whether we need to add in the more formal manners at this point.

 

Yes, before she goes off to college, I would like to expose her to a few more sophistocated events and cover a few more things. But for now, I am not feeling so compelled to attend what I imagine will be a rather Victorian style tea. I know that some people love such things and I enjoy that they enjoy that. But I don't want to go.

 

There - I said it - I don't want to go. Based on where I am in my head these days, bows and ruffles and fancy hats seem to be artificial and unnecessary. So, am I doing my dd a disservice by not training her in these skills and taking her to the event?:confused:

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Does she want to go?

[Elizabeth in MN]

We have a heavy empasis on good manners in our home school. We live rurally and attend very few formal functions. I believe that every person needs to know the etiquette of the society they live in, be that not showing the soles of your shoes or which fork is the salad fork.

 

Now, to me true manners and etiquette... well it's a science. It's the science of making everyone feel comfortable. There is a scene in a Shirley Temple movie where in she picks up and drinks the finger bowl thinking it's lemonade. The hostess follows suit as if it is the most natural thing to do. The hostess didn't want the little girl to feel out of place - this is what I aim for with my daughter.

[beaners]

There have been a few occasions where I wished that I knew what I was supposed to be doing in a formal setting. I've learned how to get through these events by now, but I really wish that someone had explained the "rules" to me when I was younger and less afraid of making some kind of egregious mistake.

 

I'm really not a dress-up kind of person. I rarely leave the house for something other than getting groceries. This is still what I'd consider an important skill to have. You don't need to know everything, but it's nice to know enough that you aren't intimidated.

[regentrude]

Bows and ruffles may be obsolete- manners are not.

 

Most of the manner rules are simply common sense: showing respect, making the other people feel comfortable, using sanitary eating habits.

Honestly, I do not think too many people care about the perfect order in which to greet strangers or about the correct placement of every single glass on a formal table. (common sense would suggest greeting host and hostess first, then older guests, beginning with the ladies, younger people showing respect to older people by rising etc. Other details don't real matter much. Placement of glasses can be looked up if you need to set a formal table.)

 

More people , however, would feel uncomfortable around persons who do eat in a manner that is unpleasant to watch and unsanitary. Children should be able to use silverware (it is horrible to see how some of my kids' friends eat - there are 12 y/o who can not eat with knife and fork!). It should be common sense not to use your own utensils in common bowls, not to reach across people's plates, not to heap your plate etc. And not to talk about topics that can be gross or unappetizing while at dinner.

 

Also, greeting people and using please and thank you have nothing to do with ruffles - even in a more rustic setting it is polite to thank a hostess, to thank for a gift, to ask pleasantly for items or a service. Just because you like being less formal does not mean you have to lack manners.

[hillfarm]

Bows and ruffles may be obsolete- manners are not.

 

... Just because you like being less formal does not mean you have to lack manners.

 

I guess this is what I was getting at. We live in a less formal community and our family has a less formal lifestyle. However, we have emphasized proper table manners and good social manners. Dd knows what to do with most semi-formal place settings and how to greet, introduce, and interact with people properly. She is known at her shooting sports classes as being the only participant who goes around and thanks the instructors after each class.

 

I think one of the things that bothers me about the tea party is a vague underlying hint of it being a place for proper, well-bred, feminine young ladies to practice their manners which will later be used as a way of distancing themselves from the commoners. My dear old Appalachian Granny taught me that manners are to be used to make people feel welcome and at ease, not something to beat people over the head with and to make them feel inferior.

 

I asked dd if she wanted to go. She responded with, "Well, this is such a busy season and I like more active options. I'd rather skip the tea party if you don't mind and go caroling with the youth group at church instead."

[Rosie_0801]

Do you want her to feel she must always avoid any event like this for fear of committing some kind of social blunder and embarrassing everyone, especially herself? Skipping out on events because you don't like them is freeing. Skipping because you don't know how to do it properly is confining. Like Beaners said, it's best to get into it now while she's still young enough that neither she nor anyone else expects her to know it all already.

 

It reminds me of a time I went to the theatre. There was a young girl there with her family, all wearing jeans and tshirts, and the poor kid looked absolutely mortified. She was just old enough to notice that even though some people were wearing jeans, most people were dressed up and the poor kid felt awful.

 

Get a fancy hat and take her along. You'll be doing your duty for her socialisation resume ;) When my kids are older, I'll be sending them off to their grandparents for "formality training." They are comfortable in social settings dh refuses to bother with and I can't fake confidently since I didn't even go to my high school formals. I'd rather not limit their prospects, kwim?

 

 

Edit: Ah, she's decided not to go. It really isn't about creating snobbery, it's about expanding spheres of social familiarity so they won't feel inferior should they stumble into situations different to their usual daily life in the future. For example, my grandmother came from quite a humble background as did my grandfather. One might say that she didn't require any "society" manners. She was a stay at home mum with 5 kids and the daughter of a stay at home mum with 5 kids. However, my grandfather became the best salesman in the state for the nation-wide company he worked for, then regional manager and they were obliged to attend fancy company dinners at places they wouldn't have had cause to even walk past otherwise. In those situations, she simply couldn't decide not to go and while the boss was a great bloke, the sort who was just as gracious towards her in fancy restaurants as he was eating homemade apple pie at her kitchen table, it was still necessary for her look sideways to everyone else to watch what everyone else was doing. Who knew it was ever appropriate to eat with your fingers at a swanky restaurant? !!

Rosie

Edited November 30, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Carol in Cal.]

 

I think one of the things that bothers me about the tea party is a vague underlying hint of it being a place for proper, well-bred, feminine young ladies to practice their manners which will later be used as a way of distancing themselves from the commoners. My dear old Appalachian Granny taught me that manners are to be used to make people feel welcome and at ease, not something to beat people over the head with and to make them feel inferior.

 

 

 

I detest snobbery, and believe that it is anti-Christian. Having said that, there is value in knowing how to fit in in a variety of social settings, and this sounds like an opportunity that does not come along very often to experience a different type of social setting than usual.

 

I like and endorse what your Granny said. One of the most rude things to ever do at all is to make others feel 'low' for not knowing proper manners. That, ironically enough, is far more unmannerly than the original faux pas.

[hillfarm]

Thanks so much for all the input. I have decided to skip the tea, mostly because I don't want to add in yet another activity for this already crowded holiday season. However, we will attend a more formal musical concert instead of the casual one we were originally planning to attend, and will dress accordingly. This more formal one includes a reception afterward.

 

Also, I have decided to ask for a nice tea set as my Christmas present and dd and I will have tea at least twice a week this winter, while doing one of our discussion based subjects. Not necessarily a formal tea, but at least frequent practice with manipulating the eqiupment!:)

 

We will continue training dd in basic "family manners", proper behavior at the table, introductions, facilitating good conversations, respect for elders, etc.

 

When she is a bit older(around 13 or 14), I will make the effort 3 or 4 times a year to participate in more formal events. One fun one that I am considering is to assist a family friend who has a business offering Civil War era formal teas. She and her assistants dress in period correct clothing and then she teaches various groups about the historic aspects of a ladies' tea, as well as demonstrating by serving them tea.

 

Thanks again for all your view points.

[Donna A.]

Thanks so much for all the input. I have decided to skip the tea, mostly because I don't want to add in yet another activity for this already crowded holiday season. However, we will attend a more formal musical concert instead of the casual one we were originally planning to attend, and will dress accordingly. This more formal one includes a reception afterward.

 

Also, I have decided to ask for a nice tea set as my Christmas present and dd and I will have tea at least twice a week this winter, while doing one of our discussion based subjects. Not necessarily a formal tea, but at least frequent practice with manipulating the eqiupment!:)

 

We will continue training dd in basic "family manners", proper behavior at the table, introductions, facilitating good conversations, respect for elders, etc.

 

When she is a bit older(around 13 or 14), I will make the effort 3 or 4 times a year to participate in more formal events. One fun one that I am considering is to assist a family friend who has a business offering Civil War era formal teas. She and her assistants dress in period correct clothing and then she teaches various groups about the historic aspects of a ladies' tea, as well as demonstrating by serving them tea.

 

Thanks again for all your view points.

 

Glad to hear it. :001_smile: Fact is, you never know if she might marry a military man who becomes an officer (for example), and then she'll HAVE to attend many formal events. ;)

[Tarreymere]

You know, such an event might have been planned in the spirit of fun, like playacting. At least if I were to hostess such an event it would be done in the spirit of fun, with exaggerated manners and really fancy hats, and very thin china tea cups. Maybe unusual jams......hmmm......

It could be fun. Think 'Sweet Potato Queens'!