This may be crazy, but has anyone put a 6th grader in pre-algebra?

[creekland]

I disagree with that author. In order to really understand the logic and theory of Algebra the logic centre of the brain does have to be developing. As has been discussed on this forum in the past, there is Algebra and Algebra.

 

:iagree: I've seen enough kids to know this is not a "one size fits all" deal. A few kids can truly understand more advanced math at a young age in the same way there are some gifted in other things (music or whatever). However, most do not fit in that category. I've even seen some who felt they were math gifted who were really just gifted at memorizing steps, but had little real knowledge of the math involved. I distinctly remember a couple kids doing calculus in grade school. Their steps were correct, but they had no idea why they were doing what they were doing except as "steps." They could explain the steps, but not the reality behind them.

 

I have two math talented younguns (one moreso than the other) and one average math youngun. While my more talented kids did certain subjects a couple years sooner than the other since they were ready and didn't need to spend time reviewing or getting concepts, I still saw/see no need to rush overall. But, that's more my philosophy of letting them enjoy being kids while they are kids I think. Short of burnout, rushing math won't hurt those capable of it. I just see no need to do it. Enjoy dance (or whatever fits the student).

[teacalm]

My two girls, dd11 and dd10(soon to be 10 anyway), are both in pre-algebra (Glencoe Pre-Algebra An Integrated Transition to Algebra and Geometry), but in their case, it's more of a function of year round schooling; That's why they are in this pace. I had my second dd repeat a horizons math book once, as I was scared she was moving too much, but she caught up fast again. Finally, I told husband about her, and he said that as long as I'm not putting pressure, just let her go at her own pace. And I have since then.

 

My oldest son, on the other hand, is another story. My youngest girl, dd5, seems to be on the same track as the oldest two girls. She is using Rod Staff Math 1, and she is getting it without any tears.

 

Isn't that the beauty that comes with homeschooling? They go run at their own pace.

[MommyThrice]

Started Lial pre-algebra yesterday. Skipped ahead a few lessons to find something new. He made 100 and is THRILLED to be in the new book!!!

[Storm Bay]

Started Lial pre-algebra yesterday. Skipped ahead a few lessons to find something new. He made 100 and is THRILLED to be in the new book!!!

 

Good choice. I was thinking ready for Algebra itself. Most dc do better to wait for Algebra until 13 or 14, but there are exceptions. Mine don't tend to memorize steps as easily as they do learn concepts. If a child learns to think Algebraically they don't necessarily need to remember forumulas because they'll be able to figure out how to solve a problem on their own and write their own. The day I knew that my eldest really and truly understood Algebra was the day she told & showed me how she would make up Algebra problems for things she saw or was doing outside of official math time. It's been apparent many times since then, and that's the goal of learning of math, IMO--understanding what you're doing and why AND being able to solve problems correctly.

[Laura in CA]

Started Lial pre-algebra yesterday. Skipped ahead a few lessons to find something new. He made 100 and is THRILLED to be in the new book!!!

 

Yay! :001_smile: If a child seems to "get" math and enjoy it, I see no problem with feeding him material that intrigues him. I'm chiming in late here & haven't read all the posts (6 pages -- wow!), but I have three scenarios that may be of interest.

 

My 13yo son is doing AP Calc BC and enjoying it tremendously, and making 98s and 100s. I've read the "Rush to Calculus" article and he *has* done AoPS detours ... he just "gets" math. Working backward, I guess this means he started algebra at age 9. If anything, I've held him back.

 

My 15yo son started 10th grade at ps this fall, and was surprised to find so many kids his grade in his precalculus class (at least 40 or 50 overall). This must mean they did algebra in 7th grade, to reach precalc by 10th. Back when I was in junior high, only 25 of us did algebra in 8th grade -- this was considered very advanced! So apparently doing pre-algebra in 6th is quite common here.

 

My dad attended high school (elite boys' school) in Korea. All the boys, even those intending to study law, foreign language, etc. in university, studied calculus in 9th grade and differential equations in 10th. I don't know if this is still the case, but I wouldn't be surprised. Of course this is selective secondary education.

 

~Laura

[plansrme]

Another thing to keep in mind is that what appears to be a lack of maturity may also (and I am putting on my armor here) be a lack of aptitude for the subject or a lack of emotional, not intellectual, maturity. A younger child just may not have the sticktuitiveness to master more complicated concepts and processes. There are no two ways about it--upper level math is hard stuff. A child who cannot sit for an hour or more and focus on a math lesson is not going to master calculus no matter how intellectually mature he is.

 

Periodically, I do test my daughter's understanding of the concepts she is covering, and while I realize that it goes against what 90% of the parents on this board believe, she gets it. She is not just memorizing the facts and steps; she really gets it. She is not some crazy math genius, either--she is a smart kid, but she is not Mathcounts Grand Supreme World Champion Smart (you know the kind of people I'm talking about, the ones who figure out Calculus by themselves and sit around doing problems in Base 27, for fun, in their heads).

 

My experience is that there is not necessarily a particular level of brain development that is required to do higher level math and do it well. And the Math Coach author, if no one else, agrees. I haven't read the book in several years, but my recollection is that he says there is not actually any scientific evidence that math concepts require a certain level of brain development. That happened to be true in our case, and in the case of his children, but I also appreciate that the mere fact that no one has found scientific proof doesn't mean it isn't so.

 

Terri

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Creekland mentioned that “I distinctly remember a couple kids doing calculus in grade school. Their steps were correct, but they had no idea why they were doing what they were doing except as "steps." They could explain the steps, but not the reality behind them….I still saw/see no need to rush overall…. Short of burnout, rushing math won't hurt those capable of it. I just see no need to do it.â€

Here is my answer : There is no need to rush math! Sure of course! I don’t think anyone is asking any kids to rush math! Kids you referenced are an example of “rushing†in math with whatever (wrong) reason. So I do not see why I need get into talking about these type of wrongly “rushing†kids. Rather, they should be guided to build strong foundation in EACH step in math to prepare to meet more complex and abstract mathematical one can find in upper level of math, at least in post-AP Calculus BC.

Creekland also mentioned that “A few kids can truly understand more advanced math at a young age in the same way there are some gifted in other things (music or whatever).â€

Yes, what I have said was about those very rare “few†extraordinary gifted who indeed can handle advanced, complex and abstract high level math easily several years early. If you have those kids at home, the man (referred in “plansrme“’s post)’s advice does not apply to them. as you have no reason to slow their speed down just because they have reached Algebra.

[kiana]

I really think the reason people are saying 'You can slow down once you reach algebra' is more because at that stage, there are far more enrichment topics to learn about than there are at early elementary, not because it's absolutely necessary to slow down.

[Hunter]

One of the ways I judge math readiness is by the students ability to apply math to every day situations, and to be able to do verbal word problems.

 

My math gifted child certainly did struggle with housekeeping! It certainly slowed him down. If I had been more math gifted myself, I would have been able to supply more opportunities for him to be introduced to concepts that he wasn't yet ready to solve on paper.

 

I did the best I could though with the resources I had, though...and that is all we can do :-0

[lisabelle]

We're doing TT7 this year (ds is 11 and in 6th grade). I know TT is "behind" other math curricula, but it is *so* easy for ds we're going to start PreAlgebra when he finishes it in January.

 

Ds is on our area's homeschool math team, so he is getting exposed to more challenging math 2 days a week and I really think he's ready.

[Pam B]

I have two older kids that struggle with math, but my youngest really excels. He is 11yo and about 1/4 of the way through Saxon 76, making 100's on a regular basis. He doesn't complain of being bored - just says its kind of easy. After watching my older two struggle when they hit algebra, I'm a little cautious, but this child is different. He just seems to "get it", and not just math - grammar, logic, science, writing, etc...

 

Any suggestions?

Should I move him ahead?

Maybe a diffierent curriculum that moves more quickly?

 

I gave up on Saxon for my older boys - not enough explanation for them and too much jumping around - and moved them to Lial. Don't know anything about Lial before the pre-algebra level.

 

Thanks,

MommyThrice

 

My 11 yo ds just completed lesson 86 Friday in Saxon 7/6. When he finishes he will go into either 8/7 or algebra 1/2. He says he doesn't like math but he is very good at it, noticing patterns and such right away.

[Blessedchaos]

My son is in ps 6th grade and is also 11 years old. He is mathematically talented, scoring in the 99th percentile on our state's standardized tests. We have always afterschooled in math with MUS. He is currently in Algebra 1 in ps and was finding it way too easy, so he has been moved up into a self study math class where he can work at his own pace. It is conceivable that before the school year is done he will likely be starting Geometry, which is a high school class. So, yes, it is completely possible that your ds is ready for pre-algebra and algebraic concepts at his age. Let him go at his own pace. Just keep monitoring his work to make sure he continues to understand the concepts.

 

Jennifer

[plimsoll]

My son is currently doing Algebra at 11 (6th grade). We are using Introduction to Algebra from Art of Problem Solving and loving it.

 

He finished Saxon 7/6 and 8/7 last year. Also did the Life of Fred pre-Algebra books - I recommend those if you feel your son's not yet ready for Algebra. If he can do all the problems in the Life of Fred books, then just go ahead on to Algebra, IMHO.