Talk to me about dual enrollment...

[Mama Lynx]

If my son does dual enrollment ... can he then, after graduation, still apply to a four-year university as a freshman student, thus eligible for the freshman scholarships?

 

How much dual-enrollment, if any, knocks you into the realm of being a transfer student?

[creekland]

If my son does dual enrollment ... can he then, after graduation, still apply to a four-year university as a freshman student, thus eligible for the freshman scholarships?

 

How much dual-enrollment, if any, knocks you into the realm of being a transfer student?

 

I'm not an expert since we're just starting to deal with this ourselves, but in one of the colleges we've been looking at, taking 12 credits or more in one semester knocks the student out and requires a transfer. They pointed that out to us... I'm not sure how many credits total would still qualify...

 

PA doesn't appear to do dual enrollment (outside of ps) anyway. We're paying full tuition for the cc class we signed my senior up for. Obviously, other states are different.

[Jane in NC]

If my son does dual enrollment ... can he then, after graduation, still apply to a four-year university as a freshman student, thus eligible for the freshman scholarships?

 

How much dual-enrollment, if any, knocks you into the realm of being a transfer student?

 

As I understand it, there is a difference between dual (concurrent) enrollment credits and credits earned after high school. Many incoming freshmen bring boatloads of credits to college, credits accumulated via AP, dual enrollment or summer study programs.

 

Of course, when in doubt, check with the college.

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

Lee at the homescholar blog wrote this a couple of days- so I will do the honors and cut and paste it from her site. I have also written on my dual enrollment experience at my blog http://www.domesticlifestyle.com

 

Here are Lee's remarks:

 

Dual Enrollment and Freshman Scholarships

June 15, 2009

One small detail about going to college as a freshman means you have to remain a freshman until you begin at the University. Taking college classes within the context of dual enrollment is fine. When college classes are counted toward high school courses, then they are counted as high school courses, and the student is still considered a freshman in terms of the university admission. In senior year, you can take college classes that are placed on the high school transcript.

 

Here is the big problem: the moment the student graduates high school, all community college classes are no longer considered high school classes. That means if you take even one single credit during the summer after senior year it can cancel your freshman application. One single course taken during the summer may mean you are a transfer admission instead, and not eligible for freshman scholarships. So taking community college courses while you are in high school is not a problem. Taking ANY community college courses after you graduate high school, during the summer before going to the university, can be a BIG problem and it can eliminate the freshman scholarships.

 

It’s a good idea to contact the university you are applying to - well in advance, if possible. Each university can set their own policy about these kinds of things, so it can vary widely across states and counties and colleges. Because dual enrollment for public school students is not usually offered during the summer, they may assume that ANY summer classes at a community college aren’t dual enrollment. You want to make sure to check on that. There are some universities that are dissatisfied with the academics of community college classes. For that reason, some universities don’t accept community college courses for credit, and those classes will count just like any other high school level course. With policies varying widely, it’s important to check.

 

Although I haven’t done research on the NCAA, I have heard people say that dual enrollment courses can affect your ability to play NCAA sports, so that is also something worth checking.

 

These scholarships usually come from the university, and they make the decisions about the admission status of each student. I’m not sure if federal grants are tied to community college courses, or if they are distributed based on how the university determines your status.

 

For some families and in some situations, it will make sense to take summer course at the community college and delay admission into a university. While it’s true that the student will not receive freshman admission scholarships, community college courses are so inexpensive the strategy can still save a family money. University freshman do receive additional scholarships, but that is not the only financial consideration.

 

I hope that helps! Remember that in Washington State, dual enrollment in community college is funded by the State of Washington, and is called Running Start. Colleges refer to it as “dual enrollment” and it is common across the country.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Lux Et Veritas Academy

[Ellie]

As I understand it, there is a difference between dual (concurrent) enrollment credits and credits earned after high school. Many incoming freshmen bring boatloads of credits to college, credits accumulated via AP, dual enrollment or summer study programs.

 

Of course, when in doubt, check with the college.

It depends on which state you live in. In Calif, our dc earn college credit, even if they're taking the c.c. classes while still "in" high school.

[Janet in WA]

Taking college classes within the context of dual enrollment is fine. When college classes are counted toward high school courses, then they are counted as high school courses, and the student is still considered a freshman in terms of the university admission.

Please be very careful about such advice, even when it comes from such authoritative-sounding sources. The statement quoted is simply not true in many many cases. This varies widely, and we found the above statement to be untrue just in our limited experience with dual enrollment in WA and exploring college admission in neighboring states (notably Oregon).

 

Really, the ONLY way to be sure of the facts is to talk to the institutions in question, and others who have experience with those institutions.

[jibaker103]

Please be very careful about such advice, even when it comes from such authoritative-sounding sources. The statement quoted is simply not true in many many cases. This varies widely, and we found the above statement to be untrue just in our limited experience with dual enrollment in WA and exploring college admission in neighboring states (notably Oregon).

 

Really, the ONLY way to be sure of the facts is to talk to the institutions in question, and others who have experience with those institutions.

 

So true. I guess I'll be calling the two local CC in our areas next week! I only have 1 year to figure all of this out before my ds hits HS!

 

Jennifer

Mother to Noah Age 13

[mollies73]

PA doesn't appear to do dual enrollment (outside of ps) anyway. We're paying full tuition for the cc class we signed my senior up for. Obviously, other states are different.

 

I've seen several colleges in PA who do allow a class or two for free under dual enrollment. Some private colleges do it on their own, not affiliated with state funding, therefore, not affiliated with school districts. You may want to check it out with private colleges in your area.

[Mama Lynx]

Okay, I *know* this isn't true everywhere ... when I graduated from high school, i was already accepted into a college. But that summer I took classes at a different college. Those classes did not keep me from being considered a freshman at the four-year university I went on to attend.

[jibaker103]

Okay, I *know* this isn't true everywhere ... when I graduated from high school, i was already accepted into a college. But that summer I took classes at a different college. Those classes did not keep me from being considered a freshman at the four-year university I went on to attend.

 

Same for me as well. I graduated in 1988 in AZ.

 

Jennifer

Mother to Noah Age 13

[creekland]

Lee at the homescholar blog wrote this a couple of days- so I will do the honors and cut and paste it from her site. I have also written on my dual enrollment experience at my blog www.domesticlifestyle.com

 

Here is Lee's remarks:

 

Dual Enrollment and Freshman Scholarships

June 15, 2009

One small detail about going to college as a freshman means you have to remain a freshman until you begin at the University. Taking college classes within the context of dual enrollment is fine. When college classes are counted toward high school courses, then they are counted as high school courses, and the student is still considered a freshman in terms of the university admission. In senior year, you can take college classes that are placed on the high school transcript.

 

Here is the big problem: the moment the student graduates high school, all community college classes are no longer considered high school classes. That means if you take even one single credit during the summer after senior year it can cancel your freshman application. One single course taken during the summer may mean you are a transfer admission instead, and not eligible for freshman scholarships. So taking community college courses while you are in high school is not a problem. Taking ANY community college courses after you graduate high school, during the summer before going to the university, can be a BIG problem and it can eliminate the freshman scholarships.

 

It’s a good idea to contact the university you are applying to - well in advance, if possible. Each university can set their own policy about these kinds of things, so it can vary widely across states and counties and colleges. Because dual enrollment for public school students is not usually offered during the summer, they may assume that ANY summer classes at a community college aren’t dual enrollment. You want to make sure to check on that. There are some universities that are dissatisfied with the academics of community college classes. For that reason, some universities don’t accept community college courses for credit, and those classes will count just like any other high school level course. With policies varying widely, it’s important to check.

 

Although I haven’t done research on the NCAA, I have heard people say that dual enrollment courses can affect your ability to play NCAA sports, so that is also something worth checking.

 

These scholarships usually come from the university, and they make the decisions about the admission status of each student. I’m not sure if federal grants are tied to community college courses, or if they are distributed based on how the university determines your status.

 

For some families and in some situations, it will make sense to take summer course at the community college and delay admission into a university. While it’s true that the student will not receive freshman admission scholarships, community college courses are so inexpensive the strategy can still save a family money. University freshman do receive additional scholarships, but that is not the only financial consideration.

 

I hope that helps! Remember that in Washington State, dual enrollment in community college is funded by the State of Washington, and is called Running Start. Colleges refer to it as “dual enrollment†and it is common across the country.

 

Here's what I received from Grove City College last week. Grove City is one of the top Conservative Christian schools (according to Princeton Review's Top 10 Best Value Colleges) and is one we are considering...

 

"In addition, please be aware of our transfer student policy as it pertains to homeschooled applicants - homeschooled students may supplement their coursework with college-level courses, however, if a homeschooled student has been enrolled full-time (12 credits or more per semester) at a college or university, Grove City College considers this as early enrollment at the college level. If this is the case, the homeschooled student will not

be considered as a first-time freshman, but instead, will be processed as a transfer applicant"

 

Obviously, I can't speak for all colleges. I haven't even checked with others that we are considering, but it sure seems to negate that blog - at least in this instance. It never says a thing about summer courses, nor total credits, but, to me, is quite clear about the inability to take more than 12 credit hours per semester to be a freshman there.

 

The best advice seems to be to check with colleges one is considering - not the cc, but the later college/university.

[creekland]

I've seen several colleges in PA who do allow a class or two for free under dual enrollment. Some private colleges do it on their own, not affiliated with state funding, therefore, not affiliated with school districts. You may want to check it out with private colleges in your area.

 

Interesting. The only two private colleges near us are Gettysburg and York College... but I haven't heard of either offering anything. I suppose it can't hurt to ask. I haven't heard of anything like this from other local homeschoolers, so I won't hold my breath for this year. Perhaps it will start a trend for future years so I can use it with my other two?

 

I know York College does 'College in the High School' classes for ps kids. I have asked about that, but homeschoolers are not welcome since the courses are taught in the public school, not at college.

[Brenda in MA]

Please be very careful about such advice, even when it comes from such authoritative-sounding sources. The statement quoted is simply not true in many many cases. This varies widely, and we found the above statement to be untrue just in our limited experience with dual enrollment in WA and exploring college admission in neighboring states (notably Oregon).

 

Really, the ONLY way to be sure of the facts is to talk to the institutions in question, and others who have experience with those institutions.

 

I agree with Janet. The only sure way to know how a particular college will treat credits from another college earned while in high school is to ask at the school in question.

 

My son took 4 courses at the cc (2 fall, 2 spring) this past year during his senior year in high school. We paid for all of these courses in full. None of the 8 colleges he applied to raised any issues with this, and he was offered scholarships at most of the schools he applied to.

 

The main message that we received during the whole process is that any courses he took at the cc that were used to fulfill high school graduation requirements would be treated as high school courses and would not be considered for transfer credit.

 

During this process, I also saw the requirement that cc courses for transfer must have been taken at the cc campus and in classes with typical college students. From what I've read, there are places where cc instructors come to a high school and teach a course at that school. It seemed to me that this one policy was trying to exclude these "taught in a high school setting" courses.

 

We researched the requirements for transfer credits before we signed him up at the cc, so we had him intentionally pick courses at the cc in subjects where he didn't need the high school credits. I also didn't put the cc courses on the main course listing on his high school transcript. I put a note at the bottom of the transcript mentioning them, and we sent a separate cc transcript to the colleges with his applications.

 

I guess the message in the end is to "ask the college".

 

Brenda

[K-FL]

Dd#1 is considered a "freshman with credit" even though she has completed the 60+ hrs & completed her AA degree. None of the 5 (all private) schools she applied to blinked when her transcript had the last 3 yrs of hs showing the classes all from the cc. They, of course, want the official transcript from the cc, but they didn't consider her a transfer student since her cc credits were under dual-enrollment. BTW, she never stepped foot in the hs, all the classes were at the cc campus.

[FloridaLisa]

"In addition, please be aware of our transfer student policy as it pertains to homeschooled applicants - homeschooled students may supplement their coursework with college-level courses, however, if a homeschooled student has been enrolled full-time (12 credits or more per semester) at a college or university, Grove City College considers this as early enrollment at the college level. If this is the case, the homeschooled student will not be considered as a first-time freshman, but instead, will be processed as a transfer applicant"

 

Interesting. I wonder if that policy would hold even if the student is concurrently taking home-grown or co-op courses?

 

Lisa

[Nan in Mass]

My son's 26 credits of CC classes, which also fulfilled some of his high school requirements, transfered to a state school and didn't change his enrollment as a freshman. The school encouraged him to take the CC classes and many of their applicants come in as freshman with other college credits. They like that. They like their students to come in with some of their general ed requirements filled because it makes more room in the schedule for any extra classes the student would like to take. The credits transfer (usually) but the program has so many requirements that the college warns that transfer students are still probably going to have to spend at least three years there. So this school comes with warnings that even as a transfer student, it is probably going to take at least three years to get your degree.

 

His cousin applied to a college (also state but a different state) that said that if you had even attempted one college class and dropped it, you still had to apply as a transfer student. I'm not sure whether there were exceptions for classes taken before high school graduation or not.

 

More variations...

-Nan