Would you change curriculum if

[Cami in UT]

Ds8 *thinks* he has a problem with both his grammar and math programs. He actually does very well but I can't convince him of that fact. He will ho and hum and go after every distraction that is happening in the house instead of actually doing his work. So it takes him forever. I do tend to lose my patience after about an hour and a half on the same two pages, even though I'm really trying not to. :toetap05:

 

So do I change his curriculum for next year? I go back and forth and need some grand advice from the hive. :bigear:

 

By the way his ideal curriculum would be anything that would only take 5 minutes to complete and not make him think. :glare: I think he needs to think a little longer than 5 minutes at a stretch.

[Brindee]

He's getting to the place where he DOES need more than 5 minutes, however some kids minds mature later--not that he's not smart at all, just that he may not be able to connect everything yet, so after a few minutes his mind wanders.

 

It sounds like he may need active things to get ad keep his attention. I used to do hopscotch and marching and jumping jacks with my ds, now 15. He "got it" better when we discussed it, or when I threw out questions when he was jumping or marching.

 

I also found a book or subject he was particularly interested in and used that as a spine for the grammar and things he needed to get done. It helped keep his attention because it was something he was interested in. I spent a good portion of a school year doing that with him, which was okay, cuz I had an active little girl that wanted to join in and she learned a lot too, and it used up energy in a positive way for both of them! We had a fun time! They both also took naps, and that's when I worked with my oldest, who could do much of his work by himself by then, but needed some one-on-one time each day.

 

There are many ways to approach this. IMHO, at 8, it won't hurt him to switch to a grammar and a math program that interest him more. Have you asked what he doesn't like about them? Or what he WOULD like better? You may be able to do much of it orally, which would tend to go faster. You could let him write sentences or math problems on a white board, which is WAY more fun than on a piece of paper! :)

 

Just some ideas/thoughts. Best wishes!

[Cami in UT]

Have you asked what he doesn't like about them? Or what he WOULD like better?

 

I have asked him. For him it is totally a time issue, it just takes too long to do the pages in the book. And he can't tell me what would be better. I asked if he would rather do worksheets and he said no. He also doesn't like me doing a lecture and he detests oral work.

[Brindee]

Would he like older brother to do some work with him? Or some chart with a reward for finishing a certain amount? Some of these kids are tough to figure out! My ds15 was a tough little guy too, but as I said above, using the movement helped get his brain in gear for learning.

 

Hope someone else has some ideas!

[Dirtroad]

I do not assign the entire lesson. Early in the year, I give him the Chapter Review... FIRST. If he makes an A, we move on to the next chapter and repeat. When we find many new areas, we stop & break down the chapter in a normal fashion. If he does well on the test, in all but 1 area, we might just work on that area... then move on after testing this new knowledge/skill.

 

When we begin a chapter lesson, I modifiy the lesson. If he has 8 lines of the same problems (multiplication by 7 exercises for ex), I assign him 4 or 5 lines. If he misses 0.... we move on. If he misses 1-2, I research why (daydreaming or math weakness)... then I may assign a few more lines for review & practice, etc.

 

By modifying the lesson from the book, I fit it to his skill level. I can't see making him do 100 problems "just because".... if he understands it, but needs the practice.... modify. Then, increase the work as needs suggest.

 

Hope this helps. Sorry so long!

[PeterPan]

Well what are you using for those things? I suggest you look at what mothers with similar personality boys are doing. OnelMichele around here would be one to chat with. Her boys are super-efficient like that. All 3 finish ALL their schoolwork, as much as you could possibly hope to get done in a day with any dc, in 2-3 hours flat. It's just a boy thing and she choses materials to fit them. I notice the contrast, because my dd could spend quite a bit of time stretching out anything she abhors, haha... Nuts, things take longer with her in general. (take a break to pet the cat, oh I want to rebuild my fort, I'm hungry, I'm tired, you mean I'm reading a book that has nothing to do with my science assignment?)

 

So yes, by all means consider changing the materials. In general I'm one to be a stickler and say stick with things, but that's once you've found materials that fit the dc's style. You sound like you still haven't found that fit. It's very easy to chose things that fit YOU and your preferences, how you learn best or like to teach, rather than chosing something that fits the dc. For every subject, you really have 4 or 5 (at least), perfectly fine options that you could chose from that might fit a given child. There's no reason to be a stickler and say only one thing goes in your house. I take that back, you can do that, but it works out better if the curriculum actually APPEALS to multiple learner types, something like the BJU materials for instance. But yes, by all means go to more efficient, less teacher-driven materials for your boy. My dd, a GIRL, wants to be independent but wants to be connected still, totally different. Kids are different and you can chose materials to fit them.

 

SL sells a book on gender differences btw. I haven't read it yet, but Pudewa praised it pretty highly at a convention.

[Staci in MO]

But I wouldn't switch just because he doesn't like it, especially because it doesn't seem that he's giving you a good reason other than it makes him think.

 

Ninety minutes on two pages is way too long. If I read your post correctly, it's taking this long because he's dawdling, not because it's too difficult, is that right?

 

If it's a case where it's too hard or there's a lot of repetition, sure, cut it back a little. And, perhaps he really doesn't understand something, and does need more help or more one-on-one. There may be more to his dawdling than you think. But, if this is a matter of him stretching out fifteen minutes worth of work over ninety minutes because he's messing around, you need to give him some reason to get it done so you can move on.

 

My oldest used to do this. He could stretch a few minutes of work out all day if I would have let him. I finally got to where I would set the timer for the amount of time I thought the assignment should take him. If he didn't have it done by the time the timer went off, I would assign a few more problems. Worked like a charm.

 

I was careful to make the amount of time reasonable. And, if he started having genuine difficulty with the assignment, I would turn the timer off and sit down and help him. I was also careful not to call the extra work punishment, but I merely explained it that if it took him longer than the allotted time to do the problems, he probably needed a little more review. The extra problems were minimal (five extra math problems, for instance), but it was enough to get his attention and get him to buckle down.

 

Another thing I've heard of is moving on to the next subject, and any unfinished work is homework to be done on his time (instead of holding up your entire school day on one thing). The timer was a bigger motivator in our case, though.

 

FWIW, he's twelve now and finally understands that if he sits down and gets it done he can move on to other things. But when he was your ds's age, he could drag things out FOREVER.

[JudoMom]

I found that when I set a timer for my oldest, and simply ended the lesson when the timer went off, helped speed him up. Now he does much of his work independently and in a decent amount of time.

 

Our problem was math. I think because he dawdled he couldn't see how quickly he could get the work done. It was a life sentence so why should he try to finish quickly because it was going to take the rest of his life anyway :nopity:. I sat him down and told him that I was going to start setting the timer. I wanted him to work hard until the timer went off, but once it went off he could close his book and be done for the day.

 

I believe I set the timer for 30 minutes, and he almost completely finished a lesson that first day. After a couple of weeks I stopped setting the timer and he's able to completely finish a lesson in a decent amount of time.

 

He still daydreams, but not as much. I'm still trying to teach him that every minute counts, but we don't get involved in those 3 hour epic battles over a math lesson anymore.

 

Oh, and to answer your question :lol:, I wouldn't switch if I thought the programs best fit with my goals.

Edited May 11, 2009 by JudoMom

[In the Rain]

I sat him down and told him that I was going to start setting the timer. I wanted him to work hard until the timer went off, but once it went off he could close his book and be done for the day.

 

I believe I set the timer for 30 minutes, and he almost completely finished a lesson that first day. After a couple of weeks I stopped setting the timer and he's able to completely finish a lesson in a decent amount of time.

 

 

This describes my 7 1/2 yo dd. Really, she doesn't do much more in an hour than she can do in 20 or 30 minutes. The longer she spends on math, the more time I spend reminding her to stay on task.

 

If the program seems ill suited to his learning style, I might change it or at least alter how I present it. If it is purely an attitude issue, I wouldn't switch away from a program that was meeting my learning goals for the kids.

[Catwoman]

Ds8 *thinks* he has a problem with both his grammar and math programs. He actually does very well but I can't convince him of that fact. ... By the way his ideal curriculum would be anything that would only take 5 minutes to complete and not make him think. :glare: I think he needs to think a little longer than 5 minutes at a stretch.

 

I could have written your post about my ds9. Right. this. minute.

 

He's refusing to do his Rosetta Stone Spanish because it's, "too hard," despite the fact that he has never, ever gotten anything less than 96% on the end-of-lesson test. He is incredibly gifted, but is the laziest child on the face of the earth.

 

I wish I had some advice for you, but I'm just hanging around here, hoping someone will have some miraculous advice for both of us.

 

I don't think a curriculum change is the answer -- been there, done that, and my ds still complains. In our case, it's not the curriculum; it's his personality that I have to learn to deal with. Ds just hates a challenge and wants to be "done with school" after about a 20 minute school day so he can do whatever he wants, and I need to figure out how to work with him on that. Maybe your son is similar?

 

Cat

[Cami in UT]

Thanks for the input/ideas. I'll try to answer some of the questions.

 

If he has 8 lines of the same problems (multiplication by 7 exercises for ex), I assign him 4 or 5 lines. If he misses 0.... we move on. If he misses 1-2, I research why (daydreaming or math weakness)... then I may assign a few more lines for review & practice, etc.

 

I actually only assign 1/2 the problems. If he really struggles getting them right then he will do the other 1/2 the next day. But he almost never has to actually do the unassigned problems the next day.

 

My oldest used to do this. He could stretch a few minutes of work out all day if I would have let him. I finally got to where I would set the timer for the amount of time I thought the assignment should take him. If he didn't have it done by the time the timer went off, I would assign a few more problems. Worked like a charm.

 

Another thing I've heard of is moving on to the next subject, and any unfinished work is homework to be done on his time (instead of holding up your entire school day on one thing). The timer was a bigger motivator in our case, though.

 

I have tried timing him and then finishing it after everything else. He just cries and will not do any thing. If he is timed at all he shuts completely down. And it is very hard to get him working again even with subjects that he loves.

 

I could have written your post about my ds9. Right. this. minute.

 

I wish I had some advice for you, but I'm just hanging around here, hoping someone will have some miraculous advice for both of us.

 

I don't think a curriculum change is the answer -- been there, done that, and my ds still complains. In our case, it's not the curriculum; it's his personality that I have to learn to deal with. Ds just hates a challenge and wants to be "done with school" after about a 20 minute school day so he can do whatever he wants, and I need to figure out how to work with him on that. Maybe your son is similar?

 

Yep that sounds like my ds to a tee. It is nice to know that I'm not the only one who is having a hard time figuring out a child.

 

Any one else want to chime in an opinion? I'm still up in the air about to change his math and/or grammar.

[Colleen in NS]

I think I just read elsewhere that you are using R&S math....are you using their grammar, too?

 

We use R&S math and grammar and have had similar issues. My son used to cry and balk when I timed him on things - he just couldn't handle the pressure. All he could focus on was his panic about maybe not finishing in the time I set. So I stopped.

 

I started doing most of the grammar orally when he was around the end of 3rd grade, because I had seen others here doing the same thing, and it made sense to me. Because he was doing narration and dictation, I could find no good reason to make him write out all those grammar/punc. exercises. So we've been doing that orally mostly. Diagraming, sometimes on paper, and sometimes with him telling me where words go on the diagram. And he understands grammar quite well now at the end of the 5th grade book.

 

I also started doing some of the math orally. Anything that was a simple answer, that I couldn't see the point of writing down. I do have him write out problems that need to be calculated on paper (and only evens or odds like you said), but I found there are lots of things that can be answered orally, and we are almost done the grade 6 book and I still find this to be true.

 

I just try to eliminate as much written work as possible, that I can't find a good reason to have him write out. I save his concentrating/writing energy for things like calculating math problems and writing narrations or outlines. It has cut down on his balking and panic about time.

 

hth

Edited May 11, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[MIch elle]

do odds or evens, He's 8yo so it will all be repeated OVER & OVER again! It's better to do memory work than have him do lots of written work. The use of math & English flash card are great way to memorize.

[laurad1125]

Ds10 had problems like this in math. I think, partially, he just grew out of it. But also, I talked with him about what was available. We discussed the pros and cons of different curricula. In the end, I gave him several choices that I was OK with and let him pick. He now enjoys math.

 

Oh, I also explained that math had to be done. I believe I pulled the "parents who don't make their kids do school one way or another eventually go to jail" argument. But I also agreed that I would try to find the least painful way for him to do it. Once we found that, his job was to suck it up and do it.

 

It turns out he gets very overwhelmed by textbooks (we were using Saxon 54) and big books of worksheets. I tear the sheets out of everything (Horizons Math, FLL 3, WWE) and give him just today's work. Mentally that's easier for him. I just bought next year's (5th grade) grammar this weekend. I like Rod & Staff but knew there was no way we'd get through the text book style stuff. We went with ABeka - from which I will remove the binding and then punch it for a 3 ring notebook.