Consumption of alcohol: Christian viewpoint

[Guest janainaz]

I don't think alcohol consumption is a sin. The Bible mentions not being a drunkard and I believe it's an issue when it becomes an addiction. On that note, I look at smoking, over-eating and being addicted to anything in the same light. So, whether it be alcohol or gorging on cheeseburgers - it's all the same.

[phathui5]

OK, the mental image I have of a "headcovering Mennonite" with her Friday night Mike's really brought me a smile.

 

I aim to please :)

 

We have always been part of Calvary Chapel, which has never been a membership kind of church.

 

In the spirit of more off-topic comments, we once got kicked out of a Calvary Chapel for not putting our (quiet) children in the nursery during service. I was shocked, since it was our first visit and they didn't even know if we were believers or not.

Edited April 18, 2009 by phathui5

[mommaduck]

I aim to please :)

Mind if I join you with my snood and Captain & Coke? ;)

[MyThreeSons]

When we applied to become members, we signed a statement that included such things as agreeing with the church's statement of faith and constitution. We attended a several-weeks long "foundations" class with other prospective members, where we learned all about the church and had plenty of opportunity to ask questions.

 

Not only are we accountable to our leadership, but they are accountable to us. I'm very comfortable with our situation.

[Laurie4b]

Ps 104 14He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,

And vegetation for the labor of man,

So that he may bring forth food from the earth,

15And wine which makes man's heart glad,

So that he may make his face glisten with oil,

And food which sustains man's heart.

 

Rom 14

 

Dh, who taught Gk. at seminary, has always said that the words translated wine in the NT refer to wine, as we would understand it. It was rare to drink grape juice because it was hard to keep it--it became vinegar or wine quickly without refrigeration. Even new wine was probably fermented. He's busy right now, or I'd ask him to look at Peek's article, but this issue has come up for us several times, so I'll trust my recollection. Truly, to assume that all the positive references to wine in the NT are actually grape juice is to stretch the plain meaning of the text.

 

We drink very occasionally--wine with dinner maybe once a month.

 

As others have said, I would be wary of a church that made rules not in the Bible and required membership to follow them. To abstain from drunkeness would be biblical; to abstain from drinking would be extra-biblical.

[Murphy101]

well I'll just agree with the other pro-drink crowd for much of the same reason.

 

my dh (who isn't religious, much less catholic if it matters) says beer and wine is God's very special gift to parents and married folk.;)

 

seriously though, Jesus made water into wine, at the request of his mother, and for the sake of celebrating a holy sacrament no less (a wedding) and he drank it. I have no idea why anyone would think that either Jesus sinned in doing so or that we should emulate him in all way except the drinking of wine.

 

no if the question were is it christian to get slap-faced drunk off your rocker? um. the answer is a resounding no.:)

[Evergreen State Sue]

I have a little different perspective . . . well at least I think it is different. I didn't take the time to read all 11 pages of responses here, only the first several.

 

My dh decided not to drink because he didn't want to cause a brother to stumble. (There is a verse about not causing your brother to stumble, but I can't recall it now.) When you are at a restaurant for a casual drink, you don't know who is watching you. Perhaps that brother or sister watching you has an alcohol problem. They may not know you are a Christian or maybe they do. They might think, well, it's okay. He's drinking and he goes to church. Or maybe they are tempted to drink just this once.

 

So the reason here is not that my dh thinks drinking is a sin. It is purely so as not to cause someone to stumble.

[Dooley]

I aim to please :)

 

 

 

In the spirit of more off-topic comments, we once got kicked out of a Calvary Chapel for not putting our (quiet) children in the nursery during service. I was shocked, since it was our first visit and they didn't even know if we were believers or not.

 

 

I love Calvarys...but there are many issues.......dont get me started.....

[mommaduck]

I have a little different perspective . . . well at least I think it is different. I didn't take the time to read all 11 pages of responses here, only the first several.

 

My dh decided not to drink because he didn't want to cause a brother to stumble. (There is a verse about not causing your brother to stumble, but I can't recall it now.) When you are at a restaurant for a casual drink, you don't know who is watching you. Perhaps that brother or sister watching you has an alcohol problem. They may not know you are a Christian or maybe they do. They might think, well, it's okay. He's drinking and he goes to church. Or maybe they are tempted to drink just this once.

 

So the reason here is not that my dh thinks drinking is a sin. It is purely so as not to cause someone to stumble.

It would be causing him to stumble if he offered an alcoholic a drink. It would not be to simply be having one with his meal if he was simply with his wife at a restaurant.

 

If this is reason enough to not drink a glass of wine, then perhaps we should all refuse to eat as well or not have restaurants, for it might cause the glutton to stumble...this line of reasoning could go on into the ridiculous (and I've seen it do so).

[Evergreen State Sue]

It would be causing him to stumble if he offered an alcoholic a drink. It would not be to simply be having one with his meal if he was simply with his wife at a restaurant.

 

If this is reason enough to not drink a glass of wine, then perhaps we should all refuse to eat as well or not have restaurants, for it might cause the glutton to stumble...this line of reasoning could go on into the ridiculous (and I've seen it do so).

 

I really don't think my comments deserved to be called "ridiculous". The op asked for reasons, and I offered one.

[mommaduck]

I really don't think my comments deserved to be called "ridiculous". The op asked for reasons, and I offered one.

I didn't call it ridiculous. I stated that the line of reasoning can easily lead to the ridiculous...in others words, you've created a slippery slope into legalism.

 

You've also only referenced one small portion of Scripture and used it in such a way as to dismiss other passages (let's start with the command to drink wine in remembrance of Christ's blood shed for us).

[Evergreen State Sue]

I didn't call it ridiculous. I stated that the line of reasoning can easily lead to the ridiculous...in others words, you've created a slippery slope into legalism.

 

You've also only referenced one small portion of Scripture and used it in such a way as to dismiss other passages (let's start with the command to drink wine in remembrance of Christ's blood shed for us).

 

From the several pages I read, I felt the side on why it is okay to drink was well given. I agree with what many have said. I do not feel drinking in moderation is a sin. I didn't feel that after 11 pages of what appeared to be that sentiment I needed to say that. My mistake if I misled you. I wasn't intentionally dismissing other passages.

 

I was instead looking at it from a different perspective. Instead of justifying why I should drink just because I am free to do so, I thought to look at it from the other side. Since the OP was questioning this church's stance on the subject, I thought it might be useful to look at it as why I shouldn't drink. Perhaps she or others hadn't looked at it from that perspective. That is why I offered the reason out of consideration for a struggling brother. For someone who has an alcoholic addiction, seeing someone with an alcoholic drink might be a big problem. In a similar way, (since in your previous post you mentioned food), if I was dining with someone struggling with weight loss and they passed on dessert, out of consideration for that person I wouldn't order a brownie fudge sundae for dessert and eat it in front of them.

 

I do not view it as legalistic for us because nobody is telling us not to drink. We choose to do this because drinking alcohol is not that important to us. We could if we wanted to, but we don't. It is not that we think it is a sin, nor do we judge others who drink. I believe the OP had a similar sentiment, that if they only drank once a month, cutting it out all together may not be that big a deal.

 

I am not addressing if she should or shouldn't become a member of their chosen church. That is their decision. I'm just offering a possible reason why the church may not permit drinking? I don't recall her saying the church had a specific reason.

 

Peace

[LilyK]

we once got kicked out of a Calvary Chapel for not putting our (quiet) children in the nursery during service. I was shocked, since it was our first visit and they didn't even know if we were believers or not.

 

 

 

I don't think that is necessarily a Calvary thing, but rather that particular Calvary you went to. They are each quite different. I have attended three here in California. I have often had my kids with me due to some very clingy stages that a couple of them went through as toddlers. I never had a problem from the churches.

[LilyK]

Heather,

I am not a big drinker, but I definitely enjoy a little merlot with steak, a glass of plum white, heck even a little sake with my sushi. This church that you describe is definitely not one that I would ever consider joining.

 

That said, I am glad that there are churches like this out there. Many of my df's from my youth are recovering alcoholics. It is critical for them to have that social support of non-drinking peers. I never touch a drop of alcohol when I am with them. I think they would appreciate a church that prohibited drinking. I'm not sure that they would appreciate this particular pastor though.:glare:

[Heather in Neverland]

From the several pages I read, I felt the side on why it is okay to drink was well given. I agree with what many have said. I do not feel drinking in moderation is a sin. I didn't feel that after 11 pages of what appeared to be that sentiment I needed to say that. My mistake if I misled you. I wasn't intentionally dismissing other passages.

 

I was instead looking at it from a different perspective. Instead of justifying why I should drink just because I am free to do so, I thought to look at it from the other side. Since the OP was questioning this church's stance on the subject, I thought it might be useful to look at it as why I shouldn't drink. Perhaps she or others hadn't looked at it from that perspective. That is why I offered the reason out of consideration for a struggling brother. For someone who has an alcoholic addiction, seeing someone with an alcoholic drink might be a big problem. In a similar way, (since in your previous post you mentioned food), if I was dining with someone struggling with weight loss and they passed on dessert, out of consideration for that person I wouldn't order a brownie fudge sundae for dessert and eat it in front of them.

 

I do not view it as legalistic for us because nobody is telling us not to drink. We choose to do this because drinking alcohol is not that important to us. We could if we wanted to, but we don't. It is not that we think it is a sin, nor do we judge others who drink. I believe the OP had a similar sentiment, that if they only drank once a month, cutting it out all together may not be that big a deal.

 

I am not addressing if she should or shouldn't become a member of their chosen church. That is their decision. I'm just offering a possible reason why the church may not permit drinking? I don't recall her saying the church had a specific reason.

 

Peace

 

I appreciate your effort to present another viewpoint.

[ciyates]

There is scripture that says do not loosen the binds I have made nor bind what I did not. Sorry I can't remember the exact passage (I running on very little sleep). My only concern would be is where they are coming from Scripturally and I think it would be wise to ask the Pastor. I know that some people look at the no drinking as part of Matthew where Jesus says if you eye causes you to sin pluck it out etc... but to me that is stretching the Word. Spend some time in prayer and talking with the leadership.

 

On a side note we try to live our lives according to the Bible not only in Word but Spirit. What is God calling YOU to do? We are to be obedient to Him not man's doctrine.

[mommaduck]

From the several pages I read, I felt the side on why it is okay to drink was well given. I agree with what many have said. I do not feel drinking in moderation is a sin. I didn't feel that after 11 pages of what appeared to be that sentiment I needed to say that. My mistake if I misled you. I wasn't intentionally dismissing other passages.

 

I was instead looking at it from a different perspective. Instead of justifying why I should drink just because I am free to do so, I thought to look at it from the other side. Since the OP was questioning this church's stance on the subject, I thought it might be useful to look at it as why I shouldn't drink. Perhaps she or others hadn't looked at it from that perspective. That is why I offered the reason out of consideration for a struggling brother. For someone who has an alcoholic addiction, seeing someone with an alcoholic drink might be a big problem. In a similar way, (since in your previous post you mentioned food), if I was dining with someone struggling with weight loss and they passed on dessert, out of consideration for that person I wouldn't order a brownie fudge sundae for dessert and eat it in front of them.

 

I do not view it as legalistic for us because nobody is telling us not to drink. We choose to do this because drinking alcohol is not that important to us. We could if we wanted to, but we don't. It is not that we think it is a sin, nor do we judge others who drink. I believe the OP had a similar sentiment, that if they only drank once a month, cutting it out all together may not be that big a deal.

 

I am not addressing if she should or shouldn't become a member of their chosen church. That is their decision. I'm just offering a possible reason why the church may not permit drinking? I don't recall her saying the church had a specific reason.

 

Peace

Okay, I can understand that as a preference ;) I'm used to people that state it and then try to enact it upon everyone around them as though to do anything else is sin.

 

Thanks :001_smile:

[lapsetmom]

On a side note we try to live our lives according to the Bible not only in Word but Spirit. What is God calling YOU to do? We are to be obedient to Him not man's doctrine.

 

Even though the church's stance on this makes me uneasy, I agree with the above poster. What do you and your husband feel the Lord is leading you to do? He may have you at this church for a reason. Make sure you are following the path He has you on.

[Peek a Boo]

I don't find it to be convincing. He ties himself into pretzel knots to make very strained arguments. Plus' date=' I'm not inclined to find him credible based on some of his other writings and stances.[/quote']

 

 

with all due respect.... "strained arguments"..... like what?? I'm not interested in his statistical analysis of alcoholism in America [i find that irrelevant], but more his examination of the terminology for fermented/ unfermented juice and the character of Christ.

 

I've read through his stuff on this thrice now and am having a difficult time actually being able to discredit or find fault w/ his research on the history of alcohol and the terminology/ ideology from scripture.

 

I'm also not especially interested in throwing the baby out w/ the bathwater:

I'm certainly not a Seventh Day Adventist, but am looking for valid opposition to his specific arguments. I haven't been able to find anyone that can make one based on the thoroughness of this guy's research, and I've googled a TON of articles about this. They don't hold up to the details he points out.

 

If you can share any details that led to that conclusion i truly would appreciate it. anyone else too. You can PM me ;)