Q's about CLE Math and BJU Math (2nd & 3rd grade)

[SS in MD]

My dd (8 yo) is struggling in SM 1B/2A. So, I'm thinking of switching her to something else. She needs daily review of previous topics and I'm looking into CLE Math & BJU Math (possibly Abeka, but I've heard it moves fast).

 

Can someone tell me their likes/dislikes for either CLE or BJU (2nd or 3rd grade math). I looked online at samples, but it's hard to really get a feel for either program.

 

I like the color of BJU, and I've heard the TM is very good in teaching conceptually, but it's time intensive (true?). Does BJU have daily review in the student wkbk or do I need to purchase the Reviews bk?

 

Does CLE or BJU include fun math activities in their wkbks? (i.e calculating mystery numbers and using those to decode a saying? Or using addition/subtraction to calculate numbers and using them for dot-to-dot pictures? Hope this makes sense!) dd loves these.

 

Any help would be wonderful! thanks!

[TN Mama]

I haven't seen/used BJU Math, but we are currently using CLE for 2nd grade Math this year. I like it because it is thorough, there is plenty of review for my daughter without making her bonkers. When I asked her why she liked CLE her answer was, "because it's fun!"

 

I spend a few minutes introducing a new concept and then she can independently work through the lesson.

 

There are fun math activities sprinkled throughout the light units. Typically they are called, "Just for Fun."

[HappyGrace]

all she said. We've used CLE 1-3 and dd loves it. I've looked at/owned practically every math program out there. Before deciding on CLE I went to the BJU conference because that was my second choice. BJU is a mastery program. In my opinion, even with the reviews book, there was not enough spiral review at all in BJU, for a child who needs that. It also looked very unwieldy to teach from the TM compared to CLE which practically teaches it to the student. CLE has a LOT of review in each lesson-my dd is retaining a lot more than she did in mastery programs where she'd learn it and not see it for awhile, and she'd forgotten it! I did think BJU maybe had the slight edge in conceptual presentation, and of course it's more colorful. But CLE just has so many more benefits that it was my choice hands-down. There was a thread in the last couple days about pros/cons of CLE math that might help you too. AlsoI had asked CLE for many samples up into the upper levels (up to about 7th grade) so I could see if I liked it, and it continues to look great all the way up that I saw. I'm starting ds6 in level 1 in the fall!

[Julie]

:iagree: I have used many math programs and far and away the best one has been CLE, I wish I had known about when my big ones were starting out.

 

Thanks again for the CLE tip Happy Grace!

[SS in MD]

Thanks for the responses!

 

I was wondering do you use any supplements along with CLE Math? (if so why?)

 

TIA

[HollyDay]

BJU does not have a great deal of review. You would need to buy the extra books either Spring, Stretch or Spread to get more review and extra problems.

 

I am liking what I see in Horizons. There appears to be a great deal of review. I have only used it for one quarter, so I cannot say beyond that.

[Mamabyrd]

I have two children using Horizons. I generally like Horizons but let me tell you that, as the years progress, the TM becomes pretty useless. It will list directions such as "Teach ratios" without giving you any instruction as to HOW to teach ratios. The TMs in the younger grades have more instruction as to how to present topics. For me, this is backwards; as math gets more complicated, that is is when I need help with presenting it to my kids.

[PeterPan]

Yes, BJU has tons of fun stuff at those levels. By level 5 it starts to disappear, haha, but even then you still have fun in the Stretch Your Mind workbooks. Now you should know there's a new edition out of the BJU math where you have a tm with a cd included that has all the workbooks we older users (me, older?) had to buy separately. They've reformatted some of it, improved it, etc. We're a year ahead of the new editions, a huge bummer! I think their changes sound great!

 

So that's all to say that if you get the tm and do everything they include (Stretch Your Mind pages, review and homework type pages, etc.) there's plenty of practice. I freely admit the spiral review isn't as thoughtfully done as say Saxon or CLE. But you know, I'm a firm believer that if they actually nail it the first time, they don't need quite so much true spiraling. You know your kid best. Rather than so much written practice, my dd would rather spend time on the Flashmaster.

 

I think all the options are pretty good (CLE, BJU, Horizons, etc.), but they work best when you are consistent. You know you don't have to chose in the dark? A CLE unit is crazy cheap, and they'll even send you one for free. Horizons is around $10 for a semester workbook, isn't it? And maybe somebody near you has BJU stuff you could borrow for a week? Try each one! Try them all! Then, having tried each one, you'll feel more confident about what is a good fit. Sometimes it's not about one being better than the other, but rather that one clicked with your dc better or made them feel more confident. My dd got overwhelmed by Horizons with the number of pages. She does the same amount of work in BJU and doesn't even blink. So you might find, as you try them, that a specific one fits your dc better than another. Use this as a trial period, feel free to try each option for a week, then chose something and stick with it. That's what we did when we made our Great Math Change, and it worked out well for us. You'll do great! :)

[mamaof2andtwins]

We use CLE math after using several other programs during the last 9 years.

 

Like a previous poster mentioned, CLE has just for fun activities on each quiz and test day. My girls like them. There is a brownie baking activity in lightunit 304.

 

I can tell you that using the flashcards got old fast for my girls (they are a little older), so we found some on-line (free) stuff that keeps them interested.

 

I do not add anything supplementary because CLE has all the drill, computation, logic, etc. that I could need or want.

 

Jennie

[5ray2006]

We just started CLE Math this week and so far I like it and my son likes it. He especially likes shading in the bar graph for his math drills, always trying to improve the # of correct problems. I also like how it teaches to the student, therefore he appears to be able to do the lesson by himself. We are still learning the ropes, but I think CLE is definitely a winner.

 

As far as BJU math is concerned- I love it! However, I don't think I would ever use it exclusively. I've used BJU math for my oldest now for K, 1st, and now 2nd grade. All of them have been the newer editions. I like BJU math for the visual layout, the colorful graphics, the fun math games/activities that you mentioned, the different methods it uses to teach a math concept, the critical thinking/problem solving, and definitely its ease to use and implement. As far as the TM is concerned, it is wonderful- if you need it to teach math. Math and science happens to be my thing, so I really didn't need the TM. I've actually sold them all. The TM does not have to be "intense". You don't have to do everything in it. So please don't be intimidated by it. The few times I have used it, I would just skim over the lesson and see if there is anything worth going over. The student lesson is self-explanatory. Most of the pertinent info. is right there on the page, so my ds really could do it without my help.

 

Ok, so why did I purchase CLE math if I really liked BJU math? Several reasons: I'm currently afterschooling my oldest, and I need a math program that teaches math using the spiral method. My ds school uses a mastery math program, similar to BJU math. He would actually work on a math concept for 2 weeks at a time, while forgetting everything else. Nevermind the fact that the school doesn't drill math facts at all! So I needed a math program that definitely reinforces math facts and also has the oral counting drill as well, e.g. skip counting. We are also using CLE for a trial run ( I only purchased a few LUs) If we like it, I'll order the rest and finish them through the summer. I do plan on supplementing with BJU Math a few days out of the week. HTH, :001_smile:

[SS in MD]

5ray2006 -

 

Thanks for the post, I was wondering how do you use both programs and plan to finish both in a "school year", just wanted your ideas. I'm assuming CLE is a daily math program, so do you double up w/BJU? Thanks for the advice!

[PeterPan]

I started out not using the tm's with the BJU math, because we were coming off RS and used to explaining things the RS way. Now, with the BJU5 I find myself using the tm a LOT. It's really good and has great explanations of things. And the extra practice is on the cd's in the tm in the new edition.

[michellem]

I have used numerous Math programs over the 8 years that we have homeschooled to include: Rod and Staff, Bob Jones, Horizons, and Excel.

CLE is by far the best of all. It has all the review you need built right in. I can't say enough good about it.

[SnowWhite]

I like the color of BJU, and I've heard the TM is very good in teaching conceptually, but it's time intensive (true?). Does BJU have daily review in the student wkbk or do I need to purchase the Reviews bk?

 

Does CLE or BJU include fun math activities in their wkbks?

 

OhElizabeth gave you great info about BJU Math. If you really believe your daughter needs daily practice of previously learned topics, BJU is not the program for you, IMO. My ds is very unhappy when subjected to daily review of things he already knows well, and he speeds along happily when allowed to with a mastery program, so BJU fits us to a tee.

 

NO, I do not believe BJU math is time intensive. At. All. But it does not include daily review of many topics. It provides daily review of a few topics, in the oral part of the lesson and on the back of the page (today it was two sets of counting change).

 

Yes, there are absolutely fun activities in the BJU math.

[5ray2006]

5ray2006 -

 

Thanks for the post, I was wondering how do you use both programs and plan to finish both in a "school year", just wanted your ideas. I'm assuming CLE is a daily math program, so do you double up w/BJU? Thanks for the advice!

 

SS in MD,

Hi, I'll try to give you a some insight on what I plan to do with both curriculums. Now, we only just started CLE so I'm not sure how my plans will work out and remember, I do afterschool so we don't have the time to do both programs at a full length basis to actually finish in a "school year". I just purchased LU's 202-205 with the TM for CLE. If I'm correct, it would usually take 3 weeks to complete a LU? :001_huh: For us, it will probably take 4 weeks to complete a LU and I'm sure I won't give ds every quiz/review/test indicated in each LU. For example, in LU 202 there are 17 lessons. Lesson 5 is quiz 1; lesson 10 is quiz 2, lesson 16 is review and lesson 17 is the LU test. If I were to eliminate those 4 lessons-we would only have to complete 13 actually lessons per LU. Of course I wouldn't eliminate all of them, it would depend on whether or not he has a good grasp on the particular concepts. Anyway, I figured we could complete 3-4 lessons per week until the end of the school year. Once summer has started we will do CLE in the AM and BJU in the evening on a daily basis, except weekends. That way we are on target to complete LU 205 before the end of July. As far as BJU is concerned, we are loosely working through this. Right now in school they are working on measurement: length, weight, and capacity. So I usually mimic whatever math concept he is doing in school for reinforcement with BJU. BJU has math concepts broken down by topics/concepts. So I just pull the pgs out from his wkbk on measurement and we work through those lessons until I know he has grasped the concept. Sometimes, I let him do the chapter review and cumulative review at the end of the chapter. We do this about 3 nights a week. The BJU lessons are short. One lesson is one page-front and back. Sometimes we will do 2 lessons a day. The CLE math lesson is longer. I do plan to finish BJU math before August. If we decide to stick with CLE, I'm not sure when we will finish level 200.

 

If we decide to homeschool exclusively next year, I think we will still continue using CLE and BJU. I will do CLE in the morning M-F and do BJU in the evenings as "homework" one lesson per day. To some it seems like a lot, but to me its needed. Math is not my ds strong subject and math needs to always be fresh with my son. My ds hardly gets any homework from school and I don't like that. So he definitely gets math homework from me.

 

I hope I answered your question. I feel like I'm rambling. Whichever math curriculum you choose, you can't go wrong. They are both great programs. I would suggest ordering a LU from CLE to get a feel for it. I would also suggest browsing through a BJU math worktext at a local hs bookstore or even Mardels so you could get a feel for it. Also, I agree with OhElizabeth, that the TM are needed for the upper elementary grades. I probably will need them from 3rd grade on up. HTH :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

5Ray, I hope this is not bugging you, but I want to make sure you understand there is more to the BJU lesson than just the worksheet (2 sides) in the student worktext? In the previous edition you did that PLUS another page of homework from the Stretch Your Mind workbook PLUS the teacher was supposed to do fact drills and review work in class (or assign the Reviews workbook page, another 2 sides). That makes a total of 4-5 pages of math, comparable to Horizons, CLE, etc. If a student does all that, they won't have time for CLE and probably won't need the CLE supplementation. In the new editions, those extra pages have been reformatted and are on a cd included in the tm. Also included are the Stretch Your Mind pages, which are outside the box application pages. We do them and like them a LOT. They're actually what pulled me to the BJU math when I was decided. I wanted a curriculum that had all the components (review, conceptual instruction, drill, challenging problems), all in one place.

 

It was a teacher friend of mine in a cs who told me how the BJU math is supposed to be implemented, with those extra worksheets and drill. She does ALL those components and considers them essential. As you say, just doing the student worktext will NOT be enough for many kids. It's not that they don't understand the concepts, but they need the extra practice to become proficient and fast. And it's all there, in the BJU math, IF you do all the pages they include.

 

Just wanted to make that clear for you or op. :)

[5ray2006]

5Ray, I hope this is not bugging you, but I want to make sure you understand there is more to the BJU lesson than just the worksheet (2 sides) in the student worktext? In the previous edition you did that PLUS another page of homework from the Stretch Your Mind workbook PLUS the teacher was supposed to do fact drills and review work in class (or assign the Reviews workbook page, another 2 sides). That makes a total of 4-5 pages of math, comparable to Horizons, CLE, etc. If a student does all that, they won't have time for CLE and probably won't need the CLE supplementation. In the new editions, those extra pages have been reformatted and are on a cd included in the tm. Also included are the Stretch Your Mind pages, which are outside the box application pages. We do them and like them a LOT. They're actually what pulled me to the BJU math when I was decided. I wanted a curriculum that had all the components (review, conceptual instruction, drill, challenging problems), all in one place.

 

It was a teacher friend of mine in a cs who told me how the BJU math is supposed to be implemented, with those extra worksheets and drill. She does ALL those components and considers them essential. As you say, just doing the student worktext will NOT be enough for many kids. It's not that they don't understand the concepts, but they need the extra practice to become proficient and fast. And it's all there, in the BJU math, IF you do all the pages they include.

 

Just wanted to make that clear for you or op. :)

 

OhElizabeth, I totally agree with you about this. However, because my ds is in school, I decided to not do the full curriculum of BJU b/c it is so much like what my son is doing in school. Therefore, we only loosely do the student text and I only do pages to correlate with what he is working on in school. The TM of BJU is great. I love the toolkit CD that lets you print everything you need, however for an afterschooling family it is not just "open and go". With CLE math, it appears "open and go". It will work for us because I need something he can do semi-independently. I also love the math drills and the oral math lesson done prior to the "new lesson" of the day. (similar to Saxon's style). With that being said, we are going to homeschool next year and I will still use both math curriculums.

 

I appreciate your insight though. Thanks :D

[SS in MD]

Thank you all for all the information! I appreciate it!