mommyrooch Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hello, I have a 7 year old daughter that is struggling with reading and I am wondering if anyone has used the Phono Graphix approach to teaching reading? I have read through the archives on the special needs forum and have seen Reading Reflex and ABeCeDarian mentioned several times in conjuction with struggling readers. Has anyone here used either of these programs with a struggling reader and if so, what did you think? I am trying to find something to help my daughter with her reading so any advice or info would be appreciated. I would even be interested in opinions or recommendations on any other programs if you have any insight to offer. I am currently using HOP and ETC but have not made a lot of progress with these. Thank you, Jennifer :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songbirdie Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yes. My son was at a kindergarten reading level still when he was in the 3rd grade. I did the same thing with him I'd done with my daughter, and she could read by the time she was 4. Clearly something was wrong! We started Reading Reflex at the beginning of 3rd grade and I was amazed as I watched his reading level increase through 1st grade books, 2nd grade books, and finally to being on grade level. He's now finishing up 4th grade, and reading 4th grade books and comprehending what he's reading. PTL!!! I HIGHLY recommend Reading Reflex! It is very well organized and easy to use. You will want to read all of the information that comes BEFORE the assessments and work pages. Don't give in to the temptation to skip the info and jump right into working with the child. The information is SO important to your understanding of how the method works and why. One nice thing is that the assessments will show you exactly where to begin, and if there is something she knows already, it'll show you where to skip those parts so she's not feeling like she's repeating something she can already do. My son used to say "I HATE READING!!!" Now I find him on the couch with his nose in a chapter book and feel such satisfaction.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Reading reflex worked great with three of my four kids. I second the need to READ the book from the start - do not just try to start doing any exercises w/o UNDERSTANDING the how and why how the program works. I just used the book - zeroxed the pages with letters etc. and had LOTS of tiny envelopes in a shoebox with each set of letters (etc.) A pain to set-up, but worth it. I also, once the kid was about halfway through the book, started writing my own short tales, using the sounds being targeted, and including our pets names, kid's names, Darth Vader, etc (yes, some sightwords) just to keep the kid interested. Doing this on the 'puter, i was able to bold print the target sounds of the day, too. I highly recommend Reading Reflex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyrooch Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yes. My son was at a kindergarten reading level still when he was in the 3rd grade. I did the same thing with him I'd done with my daughter, and she could read by the time she was 4. Clearly something was wrong! We started Reading Reflex at the beginning of 3rd grade and I was amazed as I watched his reading level increase through 1st grade books, 2nd grade books, and finally to being on grade level. He's now finishing up 4th grade, and reading 4th grade books and comprehending what he's reading. PTL!!! I HIGHLY recommend Reading Reflex! Thank you so much for the encouragement. I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out ways to help get my daughter reading and it's nice to hear some success stories. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyrooch Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Reading reflex worked great with three of my four kids. I second the need to READ the book from the start - do not just try to start doing any exercises w/o UNDERSTANDING the how and why how the program works. I just used the book - zeroxed the pages with letters etc. and had LOTS of tiny envelopes in a shoebox with each set of letters (etc.) A pain to set-up, but worth it. I also, once the kid was about halfway through the book, started writing my own short tales, using the sounds being targeted, and including our pets names, kid's names, Darth Vader, etc (yes, some sightwords) just to keep the kid interested. Doing this on the 'puter, i was able to bold print the target sounds of the day, too. I highly recommend Reading Reflex. Thank you for the advice. I will certainly take my time and read up on the program before using it. What's the point of getting it and trying to impliment it if I can't get it to work, Right? Thank you for the recommendation. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyrooch Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Would you guys recommend buying two copies? It seems to be agreed that you will either have to zerox a lot or cut up the book you have in order to use this. I've found copies for under 10$ so at that price it would probably be cheaper in the long run to just buy an additional copy for the cutting. Does this sound reasonable? Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Would you guys recommend buying two copies? It seems to be agreed that you will either have to zerox a lot or cut up the book you have in order to use this. I've found copies for under 10$ so at that price it would probably be cheaper in the long run to just buy an additional copy for the cutting. Does this sound reasonable? Jennifer As long as there is not stuff you need on both sides of a page (I sold my copy so can not check) - if there is, zerox as needed. Otherwise, why not get two copies and cut away! HINT - just remembered - I put clear contact paper over each page before cutting all the teensy letter tiles out - made them more durable!! you will also want to have a decent sized white-board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've used both, and I find ABeCeDarian far superior. ABCD is based on PG, but the materials are much easier to use. There is a Yahoo group that is very helpful. Michael Bend, the author of the program, posts frequently and will answer any questions you might have. I would recommend reading the first few chapters of Reading Reflex (the library probably has it), then using ABCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 http://www.roadstoeverywhere.com/3RsPlusRead.html Check out the I See Sam readers. They have been very effective here. Esp. check out the UK link on the right for even more information and samples of each of the levels of books. The yahoo group is great as well. What level is your dd reading at right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyrooch Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 http://www.roadstoeverywhere.com/3RsPlusRead.html Check out the I See Sam readers. They have been very effective here. Esp. check out the UK link on the right for even more information and samples of each of the levels of books. The yahoo group is great as well. What level is your dd reading at right now? My daughter is probably reading at a late K or early 1st grade level. She can read many CVC single syllable words and several sight words but she is struggling with getting past that point. One thing that worries me though is that even though she can read these words, she does have to sound them out virtually every time. She just can't seem to remember most of them without sounding them out regardless of how many times she has read them in the past. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessAriel Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I highly recommend the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyrooch Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks MomofC&A, I have been looking at ABeCeDarian as well a Reading Reflex. Many have said that ABeCeDarian is easier to impliment so I am considering it. I think that I might join the Yahoo group for more advice on the program. What is the name of the Yahoo group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Yahoo group Website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beginning-Reading-Instruction/ Here is a link for the yahoo group for the I See Sam books. Lots of great help there. I would really encourage you to try the I See Sam readers. They move more slowly that many programs (although the kids can read through the books as fast as they can) and give LOTS and LOTS of practice with each new word/sound before moving on. I understand what you mean. It took my now 13dd WEEKS to learn to read the word *I*---now she could tell you its name but could not "read" it in a sentence (who knows why not). If you email me, I can send you a few samples to take a look at and see if they might work for your dd. THe nice thing as that these are all BOOKS, no worksheets, drills, etc. so the kids feel like they are making progress as they get a new book each day or every few days and can then carry it around to re-read it, read it to a sibling, parent, grandparent, pet, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessAriel Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I am pretty sure there has been discussion on the yahoo group about using the I See Sam readers as a supplement to ABCD (maybe something in the files section of the yahoo group?). I do have those also but I am mostly using short Level A right now as I have an easier time following those lessons and making them work for my dd. That is just my opinion :001_smile: but they can be used together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 10 months ago I was in your situation. I was using RR and kind of "hit a wall" after doing the Basic Code exercises. I posted here and received the I See Sam advice from Ottakee. I updated this post a couple times. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24841&highlight=sam Now, 10 months later, he is more than halfway through the "4th" set and reading very well. He is one of the top readers in his class and is going to be okay. My initial suspicion (sp?) that he needed more reading with something enjoyable was "right on". The I See Sam readers were perfect...there are 52 readers in the first 2 sets. I didn't want worksheets, just reading. The BRI introduces some of the advanced code "th", "sh" "ee" early on, which the kids I'm working with haven't had a problem with. I am now tutoring 18 kids in our ps in reading with BRI/ARI "I See Sam". One boy (near and dear to my heart) is a just-turned 7yo and still in kdg. (Not only did he fail kdg. last year , but his house burned down....not a good year for him). I started with him in late January and he has now read 29 of the books and is doing well. His teacher has noted his confidence has gotten so much better. The Title 1 teacher observed him reading with me and was very impressed (they knew he had failed kdg.). She works with 1st graders and said he's reading better than some of them. There is also a spelling program to accompany BRI which you can learn more about if you join the yahoo group ottakee mentioned. You can see it also on the piperbooks (uk) site. I can't say enough good about this program, and I'm sure Ottakee feels at times like a broken record when recommending it. In a "round about" way, she is responsible for the remediation of a little 7yo boy across the country who wasn't getting (and would not get) the proper help he needed in his ps. Shay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyomingowl Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I agree, I like abecedarian better. I find the prep much easier. A lot less cutting. It has a workbook which makes it easier to prep. I am not a big workbook fan but here it is useful. I zeroxed and cut up half the tiles in Phographix before findign abcedarian. I also think Abecedarian has more practice. Good luck I've used both, and I find ABeCeDarian far superior. ABCD is based on PG, but the materials are much easier to use. There is a Yahoo group that is very helpful. Michael Bend, the author of the program, posts frequently and will answer any questions you might have. I would recommend reading the first few chapters of Reading Reflex (the library probably has it), then using ABCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yes, Ottakee DOES feel like a broken record (or maybe infomercial) here at times. I do keep bringing it up though because it WORKS, it is easy to use and inexpensive. On the yahoo group for the I See Sam books there are stories from reading tutors that have taught 99% of their cases (and these are cases of kids that weren't learning to read in the classroom) to read using the I See Sam books. Even the other 1% is learning, just much slower. I don't know if there are any other programs out there with that level of success---esp. at under $50 per year's worth of materials (and they are completely reusable). Thanks for sharing your story. Shay is doing a WONDERFUL work with a bunch of K level kids that were really struggling. Just 15 minutes a few times a week and they are learning to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Right now I am using Barton with my dd. She is 16 and reads on about an 8th grade level. Her spelling is probably on a 5th grade level. We are using Barton 4th Level and she is progressing well. She does very well with the workbook method, though so I am wondering if ABeCeDarian would help her in getting her spelling up to grade level? What is the difference in the 2 and is ABeCeDarian appropriate for older students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samba Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I am using ABeCeDarian with my ds7 who has Down Syndrome. We are at the very end of level A and I am getting ready to purchase B. I am so happy with the progress he has made. The program has just the right mix of repetition and new material for him. I read through Reading Reflex before I chose ABCD. It's a solid program but ABCD seemed more clear cut and easy to implement. It's been perfect for us. The author is very responsive and helpful if you have questions. I am thinking about getting the I See Sam books as well. Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Several things to try (and I also sound like a broken record, but I've found what works my remedial students and keep recommending it!) 1. Take the MWIA Level I http://www.thephonicspage.org:/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html If your daughter misses more phonetic words than holistic words or reads the phonetic words slower than the holistic words, you need to stop any sight words and overteach phonics. It takes a lot of repetition for them to sink in, and it takes even more if you've been adding sight words to the mix. 2. For more practice, play my phonics concentration game: http://www.thephonicspage.org:/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html Some students just need to blend the words together hundreds or thousands of times before it finally clicks, this game helps you get to 1,000 with a lot less pain than just working on the words in a program! 3. Try syllables. My dyslexia page shows pictures of sounds and why syllables are the true atoms of reading instruction (and language.) http://www.thephonicspage.org:/On%20Reading/dyslexia.html Webster's Speller (linked below) and my online phonics lessons (also below) both use syllables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellycbr Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 My DS8 is a bright boy, but the reading just lagged behind everything. He was bored by the books we had to read, and his interests were much higher - adult non-fiction, science, history, etc. My biggest stress in homeschooling has been teaching reading. We finally found a reading tutor who uses Phono-Graphix. After seeing her 8 times he is reading at his grade level, and feeling good about it. Trying to continue with PG would drive me nuts, and I'm so relieved to have found ABeCeDarian. Michael recommended we continue with Pearson's QuickReads and to do his free on-line lessons. I'd like to try I See Sam, as well. Does anyone know where I can find this used? I've never seen any of the QuickReads, I See Sam, or ABeCeDarian materials for sale on this site. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) I'd like to try I See Sam, as well. Does anyone know where I can find this used? I've never seen any of the QuickReads, I See Sam, or ABeCeDarian materials for sale on this site. Here's some I See Sam online. According to the copyright status written in them, it looks like this version is in the public domain now: http://www.teacherweb.com/CA/PomeloDriveElementary/Mrssakamoto/printap2.stm Edited March 27, 2009 by ElizabethB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yes, those are the first 2 sets and yes they are in the public domain. The directions for use though are NOT very good. The whole idea of the I see Sam DECODABLE books is to teach the child the SOUNDS and have them BLEND them into the words. These books are the K level readers. The other sets take you from this point to mid/late 3rd grade level. Here's some I See Sam online. According to the copyright status written in them, it looks like this version is in the public domain now: http://www.teacherweb.com/CA/PomeloDriveElementary/Mrssakamoto/printap2.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 What level is he reading at now? The I See Sam books only go up to mid/late 3rd grade level. Go to http://www.piperbooks.co.uk/advanced_reading_5.htm and lick on the books and enlarge the samples. If he can read these fluently then he is beyond the I See Sam books. If not, keep backing down sets until he can read the samples fluently. That would give you an idea of where to start. If you join the yahoo group for Beginning Reading Instruction, they occ. have sets for sale. I bought my first 2 sets on ebay but that was several years ago. I have sets 1-7 or 8 but do not want to sell them as I hope to use them for my nephew and niece, tutoring, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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