Foerster's Precalculus - Key Curriculum Press: Has anyone used this?

[Janice in NJ]

Good morning to all!

 

Has anyone successfully used this text with the extra materials? It doesn't seem to follow the "traditional" scope and sequence. But I like Foerster's approach..I think; it just seems to dig a little more into the "why" questions rather than focus so much on the "crank out these problems this way." And I love the additional technology stuff (not sure that a hsing mom can actually find the time to USE all of it; but it does look awesome!) The text seems geared more towards an engineering mind - which is what I've got in this older ds of mine. I would like to use SOMETHING (in at least ONE subject) next year that is inclined toward his learning style; he's intuitive with this stuff. Very! And so many of the subjects require so much plodding discipline on his part. He's doing that. For the most part. But it's hard work for him. I would like him to know that his thought process does have value/merit. It will count for something - when he's done with all of this "education." LOL!

 

BUT I've been around the homeschooling thang long enough to know that what "gets the job done" is ALWAYS a WAY better choice than "programs that look great but are impossible to implement." NO question about that! :001_smile:

 

Has anyone hit the ball over the fence with this text and its extras? I would love to pick your brain! :001_smile:

 

Thanks!

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[annabanana1992]

I am mentoring a student who is using the text. She comes to me when she has problems. It is a new text without an errata, and there are mistakes. It includes topics that are beyond the scope and sequence of other precalculus texts I have used, which may be good for your mathy son. Feel free to PM with questions!

[In The Great White North]

I do have this but didn't use it. (We used the older Foerster ALgII/Trig with my oldest because I hadn't acquired this yet.)

 

One thing I did notice in it, his explanations assume the use of the graphing calculator. For example, "Enter this equation into your grapher. Zoom in on (2,4)"

 

If you are going to use this book, you might as well start with the Ti, and save yourself a lot of frustration

[MyThreeSons]

I have used Key Curriculum Press's Discovering Geometry for three years now in a group setting. I HIGHLY recommend their Teachers Resources. It looks like what's available for the PreCalc text is even better than what I have for Geometry. For example, the test files are editable.

 

I did purchase the CD my first year, but now I have access to all of the files online, which is much easier. All I had to do was register with them as a teacher. I teach at a co-op; I'm not sure whether they'd give access to a homeschool teacher of one, however.

 

My students and parents also have access to additional helps online.

[readwithem]

My dd is doing an online course with the book. They're not using any of the extra items you mentioned. They'll be lucky to get halfway through the book before the end of the course :):)

[Janice in NJ]

If you don't mind me asking - who is offering the on-line course? Do they have a published scope n sequence. Scheduling is part of the problem that I'm having. All of the "extras" look so good, but using the book for more than one year isn't an option so......

 

THANKS for your help!

Janice

[Janice in NJ]

Thanks Anna,

Thanks for the offer to chat via PM. As soon as I gather more thoughts of my own, I would like to take you up on that. :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

[Janice in NJ]

The use of the technology - graphing calculator, extra software like Fathom and Sketchpad - attracts me to the program. I actually do have the old Foerster text too, but found it too hard to tie in the tech elements. Now that I *have* the new text that does all of the tie-in for me, I am having the opposite problem. Now there's TOO much great stuff to do. Having a hard time picking my way through it. sigh.

Weeding through all of it looks great and all... but I'm wondering if I'm going to come up against my usual scenario - my goals/plans are too big for our days, so we head in the direction of crash-n-burn. I tend to lean in the direction of "too much" and then life doesn't go so well...

Thanks for your input!

 

Peace,

Janice

[Janice in NJ]

Thanks Laura,

I'll look into that. Although I think that I have most of the program sitting here on my shelf.

 

Peace,

Janice

[Lisa L. in MI]

Janice, do you have the Instructor's Guide (ISBN 9781559537902)? I'm finding this very useful for determining which extras are appropriate for my child.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Kendall]

I've been using this text for several weeks. We do not have Sketchpad. A lot of the extra materials require it. I have the Instructor's Guide and CD. I also have a copy of the Solutions Guide. The Solutions Guide is on the CD but the website does not say that it is. I wasn't going to buy the instructor's guide but found it used and so I purchased it. I'm glad I have it. I appreciate having the schedule and the suggested assignments. I haven't used the notes for each section very much yet, but they do list about how much time you need for each "Extra". For the most part I don't think the extras are particularly necessary. The Extras for Section 2-5 would add 90 minutes plus any explanation time you would normally do. My son and I went over this lesson in about 10-15 minutes and he was able to work the exercises without any problems. This section had only one Technology option and 3 Explorations (these are worksheets and some are suggested as quizzes). Many sections have more technology options. Section 1-3 has a lot of technology options and the 4 that list a time add up to over 2 hours. It would take forever to get through each chapter doing even one of the extra things each day.

 

I did use Geogebra one day - it graphs so much more quickly than the graphing calculator so we used it instead to explore some things. We have used the programs that are on the website. These are usually listed as one of the problems in the problem set and don't take a lot of time.

 

I have found quite a few errors already and we are just finishing Chapter 2. I spent a lot of time preparing for the 1st chapter because of the calculator use. The text does not teach it, but will say to do such and such and you can search your calculator's PDF guide to see how to do what the text shows if you find the syntax in the text doesn't work for your calculator. Ch 2 does not require (or requires very little) use of the graphing calculator. Based on what college math profs have told me I would definitely recommend using a text that requires a graphing calculator.

 

HTH,

Kendall

P.S. I should confess that I did teach Precalc/trig 17 years ago.

[Ruth in Canada]

We have the student book and the solution manual and that seems to be enough for us. We do own a copy of Sketchpad but haven't used it.

 

Getting up to speed on the graphing calculator has taken some time. The book usually has clues about what to google in order how to figure out what it is you want to do. The TI-83 manual is hopeless--we have the best luck with webpages put up by students and teachers. I understand there is a "Dummies" book for this calculator--that might have been a wise purchase.

 

We're not zipping through this book, but that is intentional. DD was feeling discouraged by the end of Alg 2 & Trig (also Foerster) so I decided we'd spread pre-calculus over a year and a half if that's what she needed. This is working much better--she's becoming more confident and the whining is going down now that she can take things at her own pace. I have looked around for a list of assigned problems (for a typical 1 year class) but haven't found one. DS, coming up behind DD, will probably zip through much faster but that's because their brains seem to be wired differently.

 

DD is 15 and is a good student but not particularly enthusiastic about math. She doesn't learn well from DVD's, so we don't bother with looking for those.

 

Oh--we are finding errors in the solution manual. DH and I have enough math to confirm those (and DD is always pleased to identify them). If you are shaky on your math, you may want to line someone up to provide a 2nd look when your kid thinks the solutions manual is wrong.

[Janice in NJ]

Thanks Kendall,

 

What do you think about the Scope and Sequence of this text? Is it too much? Just right? Can you give me an idea about which chapters (if any) might be good for an "it's ok if we don't get to this" list? Any? Should I plan to cover the entire book using the "Comprehensive Course (185 days) pace set in the Instructor's Guide (see pg 12)?

 

(There are a LOT of check marks in that chart on pg 1 & 2 of the Instructor's Guide. :001_smile:)

 

I guess park of my problem is that I just can't seem to commit to this course - even though it looks perfect for this kid. SO I haven't started scribbling madly in the books, filling them with stickie-note tabs, etc. I haven't made them mine yet because I just can't seem to decide if this is the right course for us. Because I can't seem to bring myself to commit, I'm not "owning" the materials yet, so the program seems like it's just too much.

 

I WANT to use a very interactive program for this kid.... but I end up doing so much running around during the day in order to keep all of the plates spinning that I just don't know if I can commit the time to this that I want to.

 

Is anyone using a reasonable amount of the "extras" with their kids?

How much time do you spend planning per week?

How much time do you spend teaching per day?

How much time should I budget for my student to spend working independently?

 

THANKS! SO MUCH! For some reason, I really need to talk through this one. This pile of books has been sitting next to my computer for too long....

 

THANKS!

Janice

[Ruth in Canada]

This would be helpful for me to know, since we seem to be moving very slowly through what I understand is usually a 1 year class.

[Blue Hen]

Jumping in without having read all the other replies to say we used it.

 

And we're now using the Calculus. And to add that I had a very nice email this morning from Paul himself. There was a topic in the Calc book that I was just not getting and he confirmed that Euler's method would not have been covered back when I took Calc in the 70's --- whew! Now I know I'm getting old but at least I'm not also getting forgetful.

 

Back to what we used for PreCalc -- THE BOOK, of course, can't do the course without it.

 

Solutions Manual (1-55953-393-5) Very helpful, even for this math-wiz-of-a-mom. Meant also DS could do all the evens and check his answer without turning to me :-)

 

Instructors Guide (1-55953-392-7) The ONLY thing I used in this book were the Schedule Timelines. While it has all sorts of things, such Important Terms, Lesson Notes, Exploration Notes, Problem Notes, Supplementary Problems...we didn't use them. Ever. When it came down to the schedule timelines, well, my ds likes to do a day of math, and then skip a few days, and then do another day of math. The timelines turned out to not be helpful to us.

 

I do wish I had purchased the TI-89 DS is using with Calculus prior to him starting Foerster's Pre-Calc book. The learning curve is steep with the TI-89 and DS would have not been so 'pushed' to learn the calculator at the start of Calculus. Of course the TI-89 is not necessary for Calc let alone Pre-Calc but since DS is headed into Engineering I thought it would be best to take the plunge with it now rather than later.

 

What I will add for Dolciani users---IMHO DS could have gone from Dolciani's Alg II with Trig right into Foerster's Calculus book without any difficulties. I really wish we had done that.

[Blue Hen]

Posted too soon.

 

DS loves Foerster for this reason -- all the practical application problems that are part of each section. Well of course! Paul Foerster is an Ch Engineer and that comes through in his book.

 

As far as scheduling. DS started the pre-calc book in early January and was through it by mid-May. But that also reflects my earlier thought that he really could have jumped from his Alg 2 w/ trig book to Calculus.

 

I second the other poster's point about getting the graphing calculator now and having your DS start Pre-Calc with it.

 

BTW, I purchased my package through http://www.follett.com/ Just click through on textbooks

[Janice in NJ]

THANKS for chiming in! I couldn't remember if you settled on this series or not. You WERE on my list of folks to bug with my questions! ;)

 

(I think I owe you an email, don't I.... sorry! :001_smile:)

 

Peace,

Janice

[Blue Hen]

At least one email

 

Carole

[readwithem]

If you don't mind me asking - who is offering the on-line course? Do they have a published scope n sequence. Scheduling is part of the problem that I'm having. All of the "extras" look so good, but using the book for more than one year isn't an option so......

 

THANKS for your help!

Janice

 

Scholars Online. Great teacher - good sense of humor, works with the kids where they are, etc. The only issue I have with the course is there was no placement test and two (of the 4) students are constantly struggling, which slows the entire class. My dd does needlepoint, clears out her inbox, etc. during class. :glare:

[MyThreeSons]

If you go to the site below, you'll find several free online dynamic explorations which are tied to this text. I'm sure they would be useful with other texts as well, although you'd have to do your own correlations.

 

http://www.keymath.com/x19826.xml

[Kendall]

I haven't compared the Scope and Sequence to other texts. Looking at the Comprehensive vs. Standard schedule it looks like in most cases a second day of problems on some lessons/topics is what is dropped rather than entire lessons/topics. Section 2-1 and 3-1 are short easy and intended for the student to do with no teacher explanation. I have assigned them the day of the test thus saving a day for each. There is plenty of interaction with technology (the graphing calculator) in the exercises.

 

Plan time is hard to estimate. Chapter 2 I sat down and prepped for in about an hour(maybe less). Chapter 1 took a lot longer because I was learning the calculator and it is a harder chapter. I worked through a lot of it one weekend while holding my sick 8 month old. I'm sure it could have been done in less time in better circumstances:). Chapter 3 is taking a little more time than 2. My plan time is always pieces here and there so it is hard to judge.

 

So far(2 chapters) my son is getting it done in his hour of math plus occasionally some homework and I try to teach him the lesson the night before but we have only accomplished that about half the time. He probably leans towards the works slower than average side of things. So far we have used two of the exploration worksheets and the dynamic explorations that are on the website. We used Geogebra one day. Otherwise we haven't used, and he doesn't seem to need, any of the other extras in order to understand. He likes the application problems.

 

Sorry it took so long to reply about this!

 

Kendall

[Ruth in Canada]

DD is doing most of the problems and moving very slowly. That's ok--she's gaining confidence and she has lots of time because she's younger than most. Still, I wonder what fraction of these problems an average teacher would assign.

[Kendall]

The first section of each chapter(through 3) assigns all of the problems. Not including those, here are the percentages for the next so many lessons

 

50%,100%(though this was over 2 days), 66%,50%,about 80%, 33%. So it varies quite a bit. The 33% was a bunch of the same kind of problems. For a young child I think doing them all is a great idea, though personally I would let them decide on whether they needed to do a bunch of computational problems that are easy for them. But if I had the time I would do all the other types.

[Ruth in Canada]

Sounds like one of the reasons she's moving slowly is that she's doing more of the problems. She does skip when she gets bored, and she doesn't do all of the application problems, but she's doing quite a few. That's ok, however. She's more confident when she doesn't move too quickly.