inashoe Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you are following WTM then how much of this do you actually use ? It just seems superfluous. Is the Memorization for math just basic math facts which our kids should be learning in any case. We do LC 1 and 2 so that most likely covers more than enough Latin memorization . Kingfisher has lists for memorizing history. we haven't done any memorizing for science or geography as yet, but is more really necessary ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abreakfromlife Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I haven't got it yet, but I probably will order it soon. I want it more for literature/bible memorizations.....I've been looking for things on my own for them to memorize, and it seems like it should be an easy thing to just make your own collection of what you want them to memorize, but I'm finding that it's actually taking a long time and is just kind of a pain. I would love to have a book that just has such an excellent collection of things to memorize right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inashoe Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 What kind of literature memorization does it have ? Is it only poetry, in which case we have plenty in our home, or well chosen excerpts from classics, or something else ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) What kind of literature memorization does it have ?Is it only poetry, in which case we have plenty in our home, or well chosen excerpts from classics, or something else ? No, it definitely is not only poetry though there are some poetry selections. Drew posted a link to a site where you could view sample pages. I think it was yesterday. Here's the link. Edited January 2, 2009 by Zelda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.S. Burrow Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The literature section is 83 pages. The is the About the Literature Section on page 122: This chapter is divided into five sections. The first, Literacy Facts and Lists, provides information necessary for the understanding and appreciation of literature; it includes many mythological references. The second consists of Sayings, Proverbs, and Famous Quotations; here you will find everything from Aesop's morals to short lines from Shakespeare. The next section, Teaching Rhymes, gives nursery rhymes and other short verses meant to convey useful information. This section is most appropriate for the primary grades. Poetry is next, with selections ranging from the simplest children's verses to the great masterpieces of English literature. The chapter concludes with a selection of dramatic speeches from Shakespeare's plays. There are excerpts from: The Iliad The Aeneid Beowulf The Canterbury Tales Inferno To name a few. To me, it is well worth the price to have all these selections in ONE place. Saves me lots of bookshelf space;) and I don't have to spend my valuable time searching through many books. To answer your original questions about how much of it is used........ Most of us only recently received the book since it has only recently become available. There are several pieces that I have picked out and we will being using them when our Christmas/New Year's break is over ...sometime next week. HTH!!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 To me, it is well worth the price to have all these selections in ONE place. Saves me lots of bookshelf space;) and I don't have to spend my valuable time searching through many books. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) If you are following WTM then how much of this do you actually use ? It just seems superfluous. Is the Memorization for math just basic math facts which our kids should be learning in any case. We do LC 1 and 2 so that most likely covers more than enough Latin memorization . Kingfisher has lists for memorizing history. we haven't done any memorizing for science or geography as yet, but is more really necessary ? My kids memorize add/sub/mult/div facts - it's useful for doing calculations quickly. They memorize Latin (we use the same as you) vocab and forms, useful for translating more easily. Also useful for studying English vocab and grammar. They memorize history lists: list of major wars, Cdn. Prime Ministers, U.S. Presidents (we are dual citizens), pharaohs, Roman rulers, and starting this year ds will memorize some dates. Useful for memory "pegs," when they come across these people/events in their reading. They'll be able to place the people/events in time in their minds and have a bit more understanding of what's going on in the reading. Geography: The only thing we've done in this area was to memorize the Cdn. provinces and capitals. I started them on the states and capitals, but they are not memorized. Oh well, we'll try again on the next modern history go 'round. Political boundaries change so much that I don't think it's worth it to memorize where countries are (continents, though, they know the continents), and I have yet to think of a good reason for us to memorize things like rivers and mountain ranges, etc. But within our two native countries, knowing the political boundaries is useful. Science: this is the first year I've had them memorize science things. I might have started earlier if I'd thought of it, because it definitely helps them (and me) to categorize science topics in a way that makes sense. Since we're doing life sciences this year, they are working on memorizing the kingdoms of life (dd just memorizes the name, ds memorizes the name and some characteristics of each), divisions of the plant kingdom, animal kingdom phyla, human body systems (and maybe some characteristics of these). I might get them to memorize parts of things they enjoy, like parts of a flower, or the human skeleton bones, or anything else that interests them. I think this is all useful in sorting out science in their minds. And lit. - they choose. Poems or selections that interest them from lit. books. Useful for hearing and saying beautiful language and well composed sentences/paragraphs - helps in writing. Bible - I choose. I choose passages that I think are important - like the 10 commandments, the beatitudes, Psalm 1, Psalm 23, etc.. Useful for the language, and useful for providing a base for learning about our faith in God. I regularly groan inwardly about making memorization happen, but I am starting to see the benefits of having starting at it four years ago. You just do a little in each area that you deem important, and year by year, you add to it and review it. About usefulness....as my kids have memorized various things, when they hear someone talking about say, a pharoah, or a Bible passage, or a past Cdn. prime minister, or a science report on the news.....they usually turn and look at me as if to say, "hey, what you made us memorize is actually out here in the real world!" I try not to say, "I told you so." :lol: Edited January 2, 2009 by Colleen in NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inashoe Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 I think what Colleen has outlined is what is described in WTM. While I love the idea of perusing through excerpts of literature is memorizing any more than what Colleen outlined really 1) necessary and 2) realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 "Necessary" is going to be a matter of opinion, but as you note, SWB recommends quite a bit of memory work, as do most other classical educators. If you follow the Sayers model of the Trivium, the whole "Poll-Parrot" (aka Grammar) stage is based on memorization. You might be interested in an article by Andrew Pudewa that speaks to the importance of memorization for writing. "Realistic" it certainly is. The kids in dd's cottage school and in the high school where I teach to do a lot of memorization, and it is something that gets easier with practice and experience. I think it's a terrifically valuable thing - but then, if I didn't, I wouldn't have put together this book! :D The purpose of Living Memory was to bring together in one place a generous selection of memory work materials to save people the trouble of chasing individual selections down on the Internet, at the library, or from various books and print-outs at home. It's also meant to help people who may not be familiar enough with a particular content area to know what's worth memorizing. Some people enjoy the process of putting together their own memory work selections, but others would prefer to use their time in more immediately productive ways - like actually doing memory work with their kids. ;) Living Memory is for the latter group. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) I think what Colleen has outlined is what is described in WTM. While I love the idea of perusing through excerpts of literature is memorizing any more than what Colleen outlined really 1) necessary and 2) realistic. OK, cluing in from the fog I apparently was in......Living Memory is a book?? I thought you were asking about memory work in general, from those of us who use WTM as a guide. Sorry about that! :) And, looks like I'll have to check this book out. :) I've already requested Plaid Dad's LCC to be purchased by my library and I'm waiting for it to come in now. Edit: I just re-read the thread and if I'd read the second post more carefully along with your thread title, I'd have clued in!! Where is that embarrassed smily face icon? :) Edited January 2, 2009 by Colleen in NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Not everyone will need it and I am sure people could pull it together on their own but having it all there is a godsend for me and there are things included that it never occurred to me to have the kids memorize, and yet, I want them to. I can't wait to get it! I've said it before....but it really is a treasure. There are many things in it that I would have missed completely on my own. And, having it all there in one big book is wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 While I love the idea of perusing through excerpts of literature is memorizing any more than what Colleen outlined really 1) necessary and 2) realistic. Hm, well, no, it's not necessary to memorize anything besides your name and Social Security Number, really, and maybe the number of the bus that goes from your house to your place of employment. Useful, yes, I think so. I hate to pick on Colleen (no offense meant, Colleen!) but since you're referring to what she outlined, I'll have to go with that. My partner's now 11yo memorized the countries of the Middle East when he was 8, and he told me recently that he still uses that list of nations at least once a week. He can watch the news without a map. He can correct his teachers in the public school he attends now. He can engage in intelligent conversation about the war, the history of the area. Also, he informs me, girls like geeks. Yes, Colleen is right, those borders change frequently. But because he had a map in his head, when he learns of changes, he understands what they were talking about and can adjust the map in his head. That information has meaning and relevancy to him in a way it doesn't for someone who doesn't know where the borders used to lie. I wouldn't let my children choose all of their own selections in literature and poetry, either. There are some pieces that are kind of hard that are referenced frequently in modern media and ambient pop culture. I'd really like the kids to get that the video game company's ad reps didn't come up with that stirring speech about "we few, we happy few, we band of brothers" they're using to advertise their war game. Besides, literature builds on itself to a degree that is astonishing once you start tracing threads backwards. With just the beginning of the Living Memory literature selections inside their heads, when my kids study the Gospels, they'll realize that Jesus quotes Aesop. So, necessary, no, no more necessary than homeschooling in general. Useful, yes. Beneficial, yes. Relevant, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinMominTX Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Wow! I wish we still had the old rep system. That was a great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Wow! I wish we still had the old rep system. That was a great post. :iagree: You rock, Rose. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Yes, I agree with the others. I have found that this book just pulls together for me a TON of resources in all areas of study so that I don't have to think about doing all that. I simply chose the pieces I wanted to start with, retyped them into my computer so that I could print them off on separate pages, in larger type, in some cases re-ordered, etc. and made myself a notebook for weekly use, complete with tabs. In this way, I can better keep track and review things we've memorized this year as we move into future years. Drew was also kind enough to point me in the direction of audios containing the songs, etc. so that my child has someone to sing along with on those (since I'm tone deaf, I'm not much help in that regard). Some of the simpler pieces, for younger children, are things that we may already cover in other ways, true. But lots of the more difficult, longer pieces for older students are handy to find in one place. We can all pull together every single thing we need for our studies from the internet, books, typing, and photocopying on our own. It just takes time. I've spent most of the past week working on just my science plans for next year. Finding any kind of resource that pulls things together for us, especially multi-year resources, is just one less task that we must accomplish ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 There are some pieces that are kind of hard that are referenced frequently in modern media and ambient pop culture. We watched First Contact last night (old Star Trek movie) and we needed to pause the movie at one part so I could explain the Moby Dick/Captain Ahab references. Great post, Rose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 :iagree: You rock, Rose. :D :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 And to add, memory work is useful for the information stored as well as for the skill of training the brain to retrain. My kids understand how to memorize, they do it easily and well, which will benefit them throughout life as parents, citizens, global workers and entreprenuers. In addition, when we add performance skills (weekly presentations, drama, etc) they begin to understand how to draw upon what they've memorized in a public venue. This is a important leadership skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inashoe Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think my question isn't is memorizing necessary, but is the book LM necessary IF we are already following the memorization as outlined in WTM. WTM already involves a lot of memorization, and tells us where to get the lists or info to memorize. Colleen, fog or no, gave a nice summary of the memorization as recommended in WTM. Is more really necessary ? in other words, is the book LM really necessary. OK, I can see that it would be a nice to have, but realistically, if we are already doing the memorization as in WTM are we really going to add any more ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Is more really necessary ? in other words, is the book LM really necessary.OK, I can see that it would be a nice to have, but realistically, if we are already doing the memorization as in WTM are we really going to add any more ? Necessary for what? For your goals for your children's education? Only you can answer that question. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 No, it definitely is not only poetry though there are some poetry selections. Drew posted a link to a site where you could view sample pages. I think it was yesterday. Here's the link. Where can you order it from? It's not on Amazon and I couldn't find a copy on Ebay.... It looks fantastic, but so far, I've only found shipping to Australia and New Zealand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Here at Lulu ETA: I can't believe I was the first one to get the link up! I was even diaper-faced in the process of typing! Edited January 3, 2009 by Dawn E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think my question isn't is memorizing necessary, but is the book LM necessary IF we are already following the memorization as outlined in WTM. WTM already involves a lot of memorization, and tells us where to get the lists or info to memorize. Colleen, fog or no, gave a nice summary of the memorization as recommended in WTM. Is more really necessary ? in other words, is the book LM really necessary. OK, I can see that it would be a nice to have, but realistically, if we are already doing the memorization as in WTM are we really going to add any more ? I spit on my computer screen from laughing at the Colleen-in-a-fog comment! :D Like Drew said, have a look at samples and decide for yourself. But I will say that I looked at samples last night and decided I didn't need LM - I'm happy to use WTM as a memory guide and pull together resources I find in WTM. I also read comments about LM elsewhere (maybe on these boards, I can't remember, see, I'm still in a fog, and I just read them last night!!), and what I remember is that the memory work in LM is meant to cover 13 years of schooling and it covers a wide range for people to choose from. Kinda like WTM - you aren't going to cover everything in it, nor will you cover everything in LM. You'll only add more to WTM memory work if you want to or deem it necessary for whatever reason. We haven't even been able to do all the memory work rec'd (gave up partway in to one of the U.S. documents) in WTM, but we've done what I think is sufficient, plus structure-giving (for example, the kingdoms of life, plant kingdom divisions, animal phyla, human body systems for science this year. It's a good overall structure of biology, and they can add to it later on or the next biology go 'round). In short, I think LM is a great resource if you don't want to pull things together, but if you're happy to use WTM as a resource-pull-together guide, then you don't need LM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allearia Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Is more really necessary ? in other words, is the book LM really necessary.OK, I can see that it would be a nice to have, but realistically, if we are already doing the memorization as in WTM are we really going to add any more ? Well, people have been using WTM and memorization for quite a while before this book came out. There are lots of resources if you want to find lists of things to memorize or poetry. So I'm sure if you have no interest in it you will go along educating your children perfectly well. The reason I am excited about the book (I don't have it yet) is because the memory work we have already done has enriched our lives so much. We have been using the poetry program from Andrew Pudewa and we own that and the CD and we enjoy it a lot. I want to read a new resource that discusses the benefits of memorization, that gives me a lot of different selections from many different areas to choose from, that pulls it together so we can do even better. I love reading about education, I love new resources and books, and I am very excited about a book that collects the best stuff to memorize in one place. And the Latin and Greek selections are ones that would be very difficult for me to find and select, so I am especially excited about them. I think a resource that makes it more likely people will get around to the memory work and inspire them to do it is a greatly needed addition to classical education. But if you feel you are doing fine without it then don't worry about it. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 But if you feel you are doing fine without it then don't worry about it. :001_smile: Exactly. It's kind of like asking if OPGTR is necessary. Is it necessary for children to learn to read? Yes. Is it necessary to use that particular book to teach it? No. If Phonics Pathways or whatever is already meeting your needs, carry on! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Drew, Its too bad SWB's new edition is printed already. I'm certain you'll be in the next as a viable alternative to her current faves (Harp & Laurel, I believe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Drew,Its too bad SWB's new edition is printed already. I'm certain you'll be in the next as a viable alternative to her current faves (Harp & Laurel, I believe). More than viable...having seen them both, I much prefer Living Memory. I sold my copy of Harp and Laurel. I understand, though, that each person will have particular preferences. That is part of what makes homeschooling so fun--so many great materials to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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