Atlantic article: Elite college students who can't read books

[SKL]

I will say that as a parent of a child who isn't growing into a "reader," audiobooks are the next best thing, particularly before the child starts driving.  Besides exposing the kids to good language, interesting plots, history, geography, and philosophy, this activity is a painless way to show kids how fun and interesting books are.

My not-avid-reader is actually a decent writer, and I am not sure exactly why.  She has always been good at organizing thoughts.  I think that is somehow in-born.  Her sister has a harder time with this, despite exponentially more reading experience.

[regentrude]

3 hours ago, cintinative said:

How do we encourage parents to take a more active role in their kids' school without making it sound like we are just being judgey as homeschoolers?  

It's completely futile because schools won't listen to parents.

None of the complaints I ever made about errors in math worksheets or obviously nonsensical procedures ever got a satisfactory response (one math worksheet resurfaced two years later for younger one in the exact same form).

When teachers are not subject experts (my colleague just told me today she was horrified to hear the 6th grade math teacher say that she didn't know any math beyond 7th grade), and curriculum designers are education people who  never actually had to use the skills beyond the level they're looking at, and when politics dictate that everybody has to march at the speedof the slowest drummer, they won'tgive a flying fig about parents complaining about the actual education. Sure, they bend over backwards when vocal parents complain about books that they find objectionable - but when parents demand a better education, that falls on deaf ears.

 

[Heartstrings]

27 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It's completely futile because schools won't listen to parents.

 

I've had this conversation so many times with parent who say that homeschoolers should just keep trying to change the system so it can improve for everyone instead of just opting ourselves out.  The school doesn't want to change, the system doesn't want to change. 

[luuknam]

12 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Maybe I should rephrase that - Art was not meant to be used for our own ends. Definitely some art has a specific message that it’s getting across and there’s nothing wrong with that - there’s something wrong with taking piece of art and making it mean whatever we want it to. 

So yes great art has a message but we don’t get to decide what we think it is based on our own ideas - we need to really let the author or creator tell their story first 

Agreed. 

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

I've had this conversation so many times with parent who say that homeschoolers should just keep trying to change the system so it can improve for everyone instead of just opting ourselves out.  The school doesn't want to change, the system doesn't want to change. 

And for many homeschoolers, there isn't a realistic way for the system to change either. Yes, it'd be nice if the local schools were to implement a better reading program or w/e, but when you're in a small town with a 2E kid... what can the system realistically do to be appropriate for that kid? Sure, if you're lucky they try, but it's never going to be a good fit. You could be a in a great school system that uses great curricula etc, and still feel the need to homeschool under those circumstances (maybe some Sudbury Valley type of school might work, but that's not what these people typically mean when they talk about changing the system to improve it for everyone, and many would be unhappy if you tried to change it to something other than an improved version of the assembly line model). 

[The Governess]

This is all so depressing.

I have never been so grateful to teach humanities at a classical school.

[luuknam]

Having finally read the original article, I think the point about grade inflation really matters at elite schools. Why would you do all of the assigned work if you can get an A by doing much less, especially if Lit isn't in your major and won't have an impact on future classes/career?

If teachers (in high school and college) keep being willing to lower requirements and hand out high grades instead of simply failing students (or giving them Bs, Cs, and Ds), what incentive do students have to read assigned books instead of doing whatever they think is fun/important to do?

And no, college profs can't help it if their incoming students haven't built up stamina during high school the way they would have in the past, but there isn't any accountability for high schools if their graduates can get As in elite schools. Whereas if their grads start flunking out of college (when previous generations didn't), people would be questioning what's going on. Btw, I do get that it's often the college administration that's at least as much and often more to blame for grade inflation as profs are.  

Edited 14 hours ago by luuknam

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, luuknam said:

 Btw, I do get that it's often the college administration that's at least as much and often more to blame for grade inflation as profs are.  

This.

When the rate of D, F and Ws (withdrawals) in an introductory course is too high, college administrators will blame faculty, deny them tenure and promotion, and even threaten the non-tenured faculty with being fired. They only care about tuition dollars and graduation rates. Many foundational courses are taught by non-tenure-track faculty. Those professors don't really have a choice. 

Edited 12 hours ago by regentrude

[Kassia]

11 hours ago, regentrude said:

It's completely futile because schools won't listen to parents.

None of the complaints I ever made about errors in math worksheets or obviously nonsensical procedures ever got a satisfactory response (one math worksheet resurfaced two years later for younger one in the exact same form).

When teachers are not subject experts (my colleague just told me today she was horrified to hear the 6th grade math teacher say that she didn't know any math beyond 7th grade), and curriculum designers are education people who  never actually had to use the skills beyond the level they're looking at, and when politics dictate that everybody has to march at the speedof the slowest drummer, they won'tgive a flying fig about parents complaining about the actual education. Sure, they bend over backwards when vocal parents complain about books that they find objectionable - but when parents demand a better education, that falls on deaf ears.

 

This is so true!  We got so burned out with fighting the system and were so relieved to move to homeschooling.  

Our worst experience was with an honors English teacher who clearly didn't know the subject matter.  We brought so much proof to administration because she was teaching incorrect material to the point where we were arguing with dd at home (she would do things wrong so she'd get an A).  Administration's solution was to remove dd from the classroom instead of replacing the teacher.  They bent over backwards to come up with a solution for our dd, but didn't seem to care that the English teacher had no idea what she was doing.  That English teacher continued teaching until retirement.  Lots of other horrible teachers as well.  Like the honors biology teacher who kept asking my fraternal twins who don't even look alike if they are identical.  Oof.  And we live in a *good* school district.  

 

 

[SKL]

Well I'm not saying we need to fire the teachers or flunk out the students.  How's that going to make the world a better place?

I don't think it's an easy fix at this point.

Maybe the idea that school is going to bridge all societal gaps is too ambitious.  Maybe we need a new conversation around what will really work.

(Funny thing - I have difficulty remembering words sometimes, so the word "ambitious" wasn't popping into my head.  I googled "when you have high expectations you are" and every result was "perfectionist/picky/selfish" and "you're going to be disappointed / have low self-esteem."  So now, according to the internet gods, high expectations are unhealthy.  I guess this is where we are.)