Lovedtodeath Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) I did not say that the minority should not have a voice. I said that I am constantly surprised that negative views of Christians are voiced so often, considering that the majority here are Christians and I do not see other religions being talked about in a negative way nearly as often. I may have over-reacted to this individual post due to the fact that this feeling has been simmering for quite some time over many, many posts, most of which are on the general board and do not have the title secular in their name. The OP's question was a valid one and I appreciate the majority of replies in this thread concerning religion, including the views of the pagans and others who are not Christian. I will probably use some of these resources when we study geography in the logic stage. Edited December 31, 2008 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Even as a Christian, I did not find it rude. Some people honestly don't want their kids to belong to a religion that believes in one truth or path, where others don't want their kids to belong to a religion that believes there are many paths. As long as they can respect that I want differently for MY kids, then I can respect them for desiring otherwise for theirs. I'm responsible for my children's spiritual well being and they are responsible for their children's spiritual well being. Very nicely said. Thank you. I very much hoped that someone who identified as a Christian would chime in. After all, I have met many Christians in my lifetime who do not believe in that one-and-only-path concept, either. Again, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I did not say that the minority should not have a voice. I said that I am constantly surprised that negative views of Christians are voiced so often, considering that the majority here are Christians and I do not see other religions being talked about in a negative way nearly as often. Well, I'd guess (based on my own experience) that many of us who aren't Christian don't choose to use these boards to air our religious views. And, honestly, how many times have you seen those posts tagged with "CC" attacked by secular folks who post just to tell the Christians they're going at it all wrong? I think, given the amount of attention and discussion that Christianity gets on these boards, it's only natural that you would see more negative comments, too. In other words, I suspect that the number of negative comments about Christianity may be higher (if it is) only because the total amount of chatter about Christianity is heavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Very nicely said. Thank you. I very much hoped that someone who identified as a Christian would chime in. After all, I have met many Christians in my lifetime who do not believe in that one-and-only-path concept, either. Again, thank you. I do believe in a one-true path. But I also feel strongly about my role in my children's lives, other people respecting that, and others not proselytizing my children. Thus, I know I need to show the same respect in turn. :grouphug: I simply felt the poster that stated what she wanted for her children was merely being honest about HER wants for HER children and did not word anything that was derogatory towards others. I appreciated that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Well, I'd guess (based on my own experience) that many of us who aren't Christian don't choose to use these boards to air our religious views. That's true, many of you don't. But the some that do are very loud. I simply felt the poster that stated what she wanted for her children was merely being honest about HER wants for HER children and did not word anything that was derogatory towards others. I appreciated that. Why did she feel the need to tell us about it? No one asked for that particular view. It was not answering the original question of the thread. I have a personal plan for my children too, but I did not tell anyone that I don't want my kids to follow their path. I think, given the amount of attention and discussion that Christianity gets on these boards, it's only natural that you would see more negative comments, too. In other words, I suspect that the number of negative comments about Christianity may be higher (if it is) only because the total amount of chatter about Christianity is heavier. Good point. That helps. I can think about that one for a while. Edited January 1, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I guess I don't really understand this. Do you have any belief system of your own? If you do, do you really BELIEVE it? I truely to the core of my heart and mind believe what I believe, because of educated study and how it spiritually affects my life. I couldn't imagine telling my kids to choose something else, when I believe it to be false. I believe the world is round, should I teach my children that it is ok to believe it is flat, if they so choose? Sorry just a little confused by this way of thinking, I'm not trying to be disrespectful in anyway. WOW! I am amazed how my first questions has caused so much discussion. I was simply very very curious, and couldn't help myself :blush:. I feel that if you post on an open board like this you should expect many, and any opionions or questions. I love a good debate :001_smile:. When I hear other peoples views of life it always confirms my own, in my heart and mind. Just so you all know I never meant to offend anyone. It takes alot to offend me ; so believe me when I say none of the responses have bothered me in the least. Continue with the debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I guess I don't really understand this. Do you have any belief system of your own? I couldn't imagine telling my kids to choose something else, when I believe it to be false. I believe the world is round, should I teach my children that it is ok to believe it is flat, if they so choose? The only kind of belief system that I'd really prefer my kids not end up with is one that thinks it has found the one true path to salvation, and that the rest of humanity is doomed unless it believes the same. Not trying to be disrepectful either. :001_smile: Okay, so this kinda makes more sense when it is put all together. Matroyshka, I am sorry, my intention was not to single you out to make you feel bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I may have over-reacted to this individual post. I'm sorry, did I mention Christianity anywhere in that post? :) Actually, I was in no way aiming that at Christianity. I'd be perfectly fine if my kids ended up Christian - since we regularly attend a Christian church, it's probably more likely than anything else. We have two Nativities displayed in our house right now which will be out until our Epiphany celebration. I really don't think I'm a person hostile to Christianity. There are lots of Christains, as someone else said, that don't believe there is one-true-path that dooms everyone else (I know many personally. Heck, I'm good friends with people who probably think I'm going to burn, they're just polite enough not to point it out ;)). And there are sects in pretty much every other religion that do believe they've got the one-true-path (although I'd guess that there isn't any religion where that is true of everyone who professes that religion), not to mention any number of completely fringe cults waiting for spaceships to beam them up (and no, I'm not equating any kind of Christianity with those kinds of groups, just pointing out that cults certainly believe they've found the one truth, which is the only thing my post referred to). You may happily believe that you are saved and I'm not. For all I know you are. But just like the poster I was responding to wanted to make sure her kids believed exactly what she believed so they could be saved with her, I'd really prefer my kids not believe they've found the truth dooming all others. Why do people who are certain of the truth get to say honestly that they don't want their kids to believe what I do, but I don't get to say I'd prefer that my kids don't believe what they do??? :confused: Especially since along with their wishes, they are expressing that they are sure I'm completely wrong in my beliefs and doomed, whereas my sentiments convey no such thing about anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Why do people who are certain of the truth get to say honestly that they don't want their kids to believe what I do, but I don't get to say I'd prefer that my kids don't believe what they do??? :confused: Because you're not in the majority, apparently. Sorry, that probably sounds kind of snarky. I just didn't want Matroyshka to be left hanging out there all alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) And, honestly, how many times have you seen those posts tagged with "CC" attacked by secular folks who post just to tell the Christians they're going at it all wrong? Oh. It boggles the mind how dense I can be. This is a thread with "secular" in the title... Matroyshka shared her beliefs and I jumped all over her. DUH!! I'm sorry, did I mention Christianity anywhere in that post? :) Actually, I was in no way aiming that at Christianity. I'd be perfectly fine if my kids ended up Christian - since we regularly attend a Christian church, it's probably more likely than anything else. We have two Nativities displayed in our house right now which will be out until our Epiphany celebration. I really don't think I'm a person hostile to Christianity. There are lots of Christains, as someone else said, that don't believe there is one-true-path that dooms everyone else (I know many personally. Heck, I'm good friends with people who probably think I'm going to burn, they're just polite enough not to point it out ;)). And there are sects in pretty much every other religion that do believe they've got the one-true-path (although I'd guess that there isn't any religion where that is true of everyone who professes that religion), not to mention any number of completely fringe cults waiting for spaceships to beam them up (and no, I'm not equating any kind of Christianity with those kinds of groups, just pointing out that cults certainly believe they've found the one truth, which is the only thing my post referred to). You may happily believe that you are saved and I'm not. For all I know you are. But just like the poster I was responding to wanted to make sure her kids believed exactly what she believed so they could be saved with her, I'd really prefer my kids not believe they've found the truth dooming all others. Why do people who are certain of the truth get to say honestly that they don't want their kids to believe what I do, but I don't get to say I'd prefer that my kids don't believe what they do??? :confused: Especially since along with their wishes, they are expressing that they are sure I'm completely wrong in my beliefs and doomed, whereas my sentiments convey no such thing about anyone else. Thanks for explaining!:) I think the only folks who feel that they know who is doomed and who is not are taking judging into their own hands. I don't think that we are supposed to do that. I still believe that following Christ (among other things) is the one true path though. I don't believe that anyone is going to burn. Because you're not in the majority, apparently. Sorry, that probably sounds kind of snarky. I just didn't want Matroyshka to be left hanging out there all alone. :lol: Perfectly understandable. I understand now. Please find a way to reach an understanding of what I thought I was doing, :001_huh: at least to the point of not judging me. I am really not usually attacking people's beliefs. Really. But I did explain the whole majority thing. It is just surprising that I do find Christianity attacked so often. There is someone on these boards that seems to use every appropriate or innappropriate opportunity to do so, and it happened with great frequency during the political discussions. I have seen others do so as well. Of course, this did not really qualify as that and I misunderstood and made a fool out of myself.:blushing: Edited December 31, 2008 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Because you're not in the majority, apparently. No, I'm not (in fact, since I don't adhere to any particular creed, I think I may be all alone :tongue_smilie:), but no one else is in the majority either, at least not when it comes to agreeing on the One Truth. Because even among the subset of Christians who do believe there is one it seems that there are many mutually exclusive truths (at least since the days of Martin Luther). I once attended a service at my SIL's church where the entire sermon was why they had it right and they were saved, and the Jehovah's Witnesses (I have no idea why they got singled out??) were wrong and were not saved, even though they (JWs) thought they were saved - and also thought that SIL's folks were not. Sigh. I get sad when I read things sometimes by people who say that the Catholics, for example, aren't really Christian. Huh?? :confused: I just didn't want Matroyshka to be left hanging out there all alone. Aw, thanks!! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) I see no one is paying attention to any of my further explanations, replies, or apologies. I have gone and gotten myself blacklisted. It was a mistake. I am embarrassed. No, I'm not (in fact, since I don't adhere to any particular creed, I think I may be all alone :tongue_smilie:), but no one else is in the majority either, at least not when it comes to agreeing on the One Truth. Because even among the subset of Christians who do believe there is one it seems that there are many mutually exclusive truths (at least since the days of Martin Luther). Very true!! Jehovah's Witnesses, actually do not put a great emphasis on "being saved". "Being saved" also generally implies an overall belief that they do not have. Their emphasis is on making God's name known and clearing his name (Jehovah) from lies, many of which are perpetuated by false beliefs. Edited December 31, 2008 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Seems to me that the vast majority of arguments on Christian related threads are between different brands of Christians, actually. I'm not going to blacklist you, Lovedtodeath, now I've read your clarifications. When it comes to the board "argh moments" you name does not spring immediately to mind. :) Rosie- Currently believing the one true path involves a bubble bath and a punnet of strawberries. Edited December 31, 2008 by Rosie_0801 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I see no one is paying attention to any of my further explanations, replies, or apologies. I have gone and gotten myself blacklisted. It was a mistake. I am embarrassed. :grouphug: Your last post came up as I was typing mine. No hard feelings from me. I just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't intending in any way to slam your beliefs or those of any others. :001_smile: Jehovah's Witnesses, actually do not put a great emphasis on "being saved". "Being saved" also generally implies an overall belief that they do not have. See, shows what I know about the proper terminology of all this! :tongue_smilie: Anyway, it was the other church getting all over them for the particulars of their beliefs, citing chapter and verse in Revelations to back up their points. I just thought that was kind of... inappropriate? topic for a sermon "why the other guys are wrong" - especially where it singled out a particular other Christian denomination. I do believe there could be a Truth, I'm just not convinced any human being knows what it is. I think it's too big for us to see or understand in its entirety. Like the blind men and the elephant. Each one groping at their part of the elephant, having completely different interpretations of what it looks like, and all being right for the part they experienced, yet none understanding what the whole elephant is. I do think that God has revealed Truth to us through prophets and holy writings, but as humans are imperfect, I don't think it got transmitted perfectly. I know everyone who believes in the infallibility of their holy writings disagrees with me (and each other :)), but that's what I believe. And I think that by seeing what they have in common (love your neighbor, be honest, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you), you get a lot closer to the Truth than by focusing on the details that are different. There, I wasn't planning on sharing, but now you've gotten me chatty. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I think you are very brave. I want you to know that I was rather startled by your post but now I understand and sympathize. I'm glad you explained. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Your elephants made me laugh. Much better than oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm sorry, did I mention Christianity anywhere in that post? :) Actually, I was in no way aiming that at Christianity. I'd be perfectly fine if my kids ended up Christian - since we regularly attend a Christian church, it's probably more likely than anything else. We have two Nativities displayed in our house right now which will be out until our Epiphany celebration. I really don't think I'm a person hostile to Christianity. There are lots of Christains, as someone else said, that don't believe there is one-true-path that dooms everyone else (I know many personally. Heck, I'm good friends with people who probably think I'm going to burn, they're just polite enough not to point it out ;)). And there are sects in pretty much every other religion that do believe they've got the one-true-path (although I'd guess that there isn't any religion where that is true of everyone who professes that religion), not to mention any number of completely fringe cults waiting for spaceships to beam them up (and no, I'm not equating any kind of Christianity with those kinds of groups, just pointing out that cults certainly believe they've found the one truth, which is the only thing my post referred to). You may happily believe that you are saved and I'm not. For all I know you are. But just like the poster I was responding to wanted to make sure her kids believed exactly what she believed so they could be saved with her, I'd really prefer my kids not believe they've found the truth dooming all others. Why do people who are certain of the truth get to say honestly that they don't want their kids to believe what I do, but I don't get to say I'd prefer that my kids don't believe what they do??? :confused: Especially since along with their wishes, they are expressing that they are sure I'm completely wrong in my beliefs and doomed, whereas my sentiments convey no such thing about anyone else. Lovedtodeath said she was sorry. It is ok and I think everyone agrees that it is ok to believe differently. But we really do have to be careful the way we word things (and I am speaking to myself too), because we are sometimes sensitive. And it may not be because of your individual post, being a virtual friendship place, we don't know if someone just got slammed by the MIL for teaching a certain religion the grandkids or if the dh is against a belief system and they live under fire so they may be sensitive. This is such a wonderful group of people, let's go easy on each other and be quick to forgive and slow to take offense. My say... now going to watch the idiot box with some good BBC mysteries:D:Dhappy happy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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