High School Plans for a Student NOT Attending College

[coinsinacoffeecan]

I have always believed in a broad and deep education, and I still do. However, I also understand that we can't cover everything, and we certainly can't cover it all in the same depth. Especially when classes at a vocational school are added, some courses - or at least the rigor of some courses - must be dropped.

How do you make these choices? How do you balance a quality liberal arts education with vocational training? 

[EKS]

If I were in this situation, I would do my best to ensure that the student had

• solid 8th grade math skills (and, if possible, solid skills through Algebra 1) and consumer math skills;
• a post high school reading level;
• an ability to write coherently, with an emphasis on business communication;
• scientific literacy, meaning mastery of the material taught in a physical science course (that includes physics, chemistry, earth science, and astronomy) and a high school biology course (with an eye toward laying a foundation for understanding human health);
• cultural literacy, which is the background knowledge necessary to understand things like newspaper articles and other written materials (so, history, literature, natural science, social science, philosophy, etc)

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for or not.  See the writings of E.D. Hirsch for more information about what cultural literacy is and its importance in modern life.

[coinsinacoffeecan]

24 minutes ago, EKS said:

If I were in this situation, I would do my best to ensure that the student had

• solid 8th grade math skills (and, if possible, solid skills through Algebra 1) and consumer math skills;
• a post high school reading level;
• an ability to write coherently, with an emphasis on business communication;
• scientific literacy, meaning mastery of the material taught in a physical science course (that includes physics, chemistry, earth science, and astronomy) and a high school biology course (with an eye toward laying a foundation for understanding human health);
• cultural literacy, which is the background knowledge necessary to understand things like newspaper articles and other written materials (so, history, literature, natural science, social science, philosophy, etc)

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for or not.  See the writings of E.D. Hirsch for more information about what cultural literacy is and its importance in modern life.

This is a solid foundation for what I'm looking for. 

We covered most of Lial's Beginning Algebra in grade 8, so I had planned to finish it this year. I'm not certain if we should try Intermediate Algebra or move on to consumer math. 

I'm also not certain how to schedule the day/week. A single course at the vocational school takes a half day (3 hrs), and courses can be started as early as tenth grade. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to schedule traditional subjects. How much can I expect to be covered with an abbreviated schedule? 

 

Thank you so much for your response! It's a good skeleton. 

[EKS]

44 minutes ago, coinsinacoffeecan said:

We covered most of Lial's Beginning Algebra in grade 8, so I had planned to finish it this year. I'm not certain if we should try Intermediate Algebra or move on to consumer math. 

Lial's Intermediate Algebra would be a great way to solidify what is taught in the Beginning Algebra book and extend it.  The Intermediate book is really like Algebra 1 on steroids.  The great thing about using it is that you would be able to ensure that the student has mastered basic algebra and at the same time be able to give a credit for Algebra 2.

[coinsinacoffeecan]

45 minutes ago, EKS said:

Lial's Intermediate Algebra would be a great way to solidify what is taught in the Beginning Algebra book and extend it.  The Intermediate book is really like Algebra 1 on steroids.  The great thing about using it is that you would be able to ensure that the student has mastered basic algebra and at the same time be able to give a credit for Algebra 2.

Thank you! 

Do you have any recommendations for a consumer math to use after Lial?

[EKS]

30 minutes ago, coinsinacoffeecan said:

Thank you! 

Do you have any recommendations for a consumer math to use after Lial?

No, but hopefully someone else will!

[Green Bean]

nm.

Edited June 12 by Green Bean

[smfmommy]

There is a new consumer math titled- Scaffolded Consumer Math that looks interesting (scaffoldedmath.com).  

As for scheduling, are the tech classes semester long or are they block scheduled.  My youngest daughter took one online concurrent class that was only 9 weeks.  She mostly just focused on the class and worked on math and economics.  The class had a considerable amount of writing so LA was wrapped up in that.  Could you do block scheduling for the content subjects so that they aren't tackling too many subjects at once while also doing the Tech classes?

[coinsinacoffeecan]

1 hour ago, smfmommy said:

There is a new consumer math titled- Scaffolded Consumer Math that looks interesting (scaffoldedmath.com).  

As for scheduling, are the tech classes semester long or are they block scheduled.  My youngest daughter took one online concurrent class that was only 9 weeks.  She mostly just focused on the class and worked on math and economics.  The class had a considerable amount of writing so LA was wrapped up in that.  Could you do block scheduling for the content subjects so that they aren't tackling too many subjects at once while also doing the Tech classes?

The vocational classes are year-long, and some take more than one year. For example, cosmetology is a two-year program. 

 

We've never done anything as  compressed as that LA course, but i could see it working for a few subjects. Thank you for the suggestion! 

[prairiewindmomma]

This very much depends on what vo-tech angle you want to head in.

Plumbing requires algebra 1 with a C grade or higher according to one union application locally. The other requires 3 years of math, including algebra 1 and 2. This is verified through a placement test.  It's a 4 year program with coursework in addition to the hours in the field.

Electrician apprenticeships C or higher in algebra 1, and placement beyond algebra 1 on a test.  If the student has taken the GED, the math score must be over 150, with a total GED score of over 600. It's a five year program with coursework in addition to hours in the field.

The construction trades certificates (including machinist, framing, etc.) at the local community college require similar things. Math needs to place above algebra 2 for some of them, and writing needs to be at a "write a documented research paper of 5-7 pages" level. Most of the associate level degree for the construction trades (and, yes these exist, and yes, most of the better jobs in the area in the trades at the local factories require these) require 4-5 humanities courses as part of the program.

So...at minimum I would do math through algebra 2 (algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2), 4 years of English, 2+ years of science (physics + chemistry > biology, if you have to pick), and a few years of humanities courses.  That said.....the kids coming out of public high school here all have, even for the basic diploma, 3 years of math, 4 years of english, 2 years of a foreign language, 3 years of history/social studies, and a few other things. This is true even if they go the vo-tech route in high school and are doing the automotive trades program or the construction program or the culinary one or the like. It's that their electives come from those classes.

Just saying someone is "going vo-tech" shouldn't be a reason in and of itself to short a kid of education. (I say this with a kid who is studying in the trades.)

[coinsinacoffeecan]

48 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This very much depends on what vo-tech angle you want to head in.

Plumbing requires algebra 1 with a C grade or higher according to one union application locally. The other requires 3 years of math, including algebra 1 and 2. This is verified through a placement test.  It's a 4 year program with coursework in addition to the hours in the field.

Electrician apprenticeships C or higher in algebra 1, and placement beyond algebra 1 on a test.  If the student has taken the GED, the math score must be over 150, with a total GED score of over 600. It's a five year program with coursework in addition to hours in the field.

The construction trades certificates (including machinist, framing, etc.) at the local community college require similar things. Math needs to place above algebra 2 for some of them, and writing needs to be at a "write a documented research paper of 5-7 pages" level. Most of the associate level degree for the construction trades (and, yes these exist, and yes, most of the better jobs in the area in the trades at the local factories require these) require 4-5 humanities courses as part of the program.

So...at minimum I would do math through algebra 2 (algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2), 4 years of English, 2+ years of science (physics + chemistry > biology, if you have to pick), and a few years of humanities courses.  That said.....the kids coming out of public high school here all have, even for the basic diploma, 3 years of math, 4 years of english, 2 years of a foreign language, 3 years of history/social studies, and a few other things. This is true even if they go the vo-tech route in high school and are doing the automotive trades program or the construction program or the culinary one or the like. It's that their electives come from those classes.

Just saying someone is "going vo-tech" shouldn't be a reason in and of itself to short a kid of education. (I say this with a kid who is studying in the trades.)

That's... Interesting. And certainly different than that at our local school district's approach. 

My best friend's son is a rising senior. His high school plan has been:

GRADE 8: Algebra 1 and World Geography (all students take these courses in Grade 😎

GRADE 9: English 9 and Geometry (year-long courses)

*Fall - World History and Earth Science 

*Spring - P.E. 9 and Business (most students I've spoken to say this is a "nothing" course; this kid says d he learned how to play poker)

GRADE 10: Autobody (full-year; half-day)

*Fall - English 10 and Algebra: Patterns and Functions (NOT equal to Algebra 2)

*Spring - P.E. 10 (inc driver's Ed) and Comp. Sci. (very light in his experience)

GRADE 11: Mechanic 1 (full-year; half-day)

*Fall - English 11 and Econ & Personal Finance

*Spring - Family Planning and U.S. History 

**PLANNED**

GRADE 12: Mechanic 2 (full-year; half-day)

*Fall - English 12 and Government (historically, a nothing course; his older sister - who has attended college - said that she applied for college scholarships and did homework for AP courses, but another girl in her class shopped for double-wides)

*Spring - Art (they color, they can draw if they want) and Music (the teacher apparently likes to play Weird Al and talk about politics)

 

Foreign languages and Algebra 2 are reserved for college-bound students. Core courses, such as English and Biology, are very lackluster. I would compare the bio work to what most on this forum do for Life Science in middle school/junior high. 

 

***

 

I say all this not to argue with you. It's quite the opposite in fact. I'd fallen into the trap of thinking I HAD to lessen the rigor of my son's education. It's good to hear that there are other ways of doing it. Thank you. 

 

 

[freesia]

My experience is similar to some of the others. The children who do vo-tech still do half a day of regular work, which includes English and math, social studies and science. If my child were in a half day three hour program, I would make sure they had at least 3 to 4 more hours at home. I would make sure they did math through algebra two and definitely including geometry and at least biology or chemistry preferably both. I would make sure they had government and world history and American history. I would try to make sure they had a modern language probably Spanish as that would be useful in the trades. But if that wouldn’t fit in the schedule, I might be willing to drop it if it’s not required for graduation or for any future program they might go into. I would be willing to let Fine arts go. But I would include Spanish, fine arts and probably something like computer literacy If there is time in the 3 to 4 hours extra, they would be doing over the four years.

[freesia]

I just checked our local vocational school. It reminded me that they also offer dual enrollment classes(college classes ) So the level of academics that they’re offering and that is available to those students is high. There is a math track that that ends in something called math four but I would imagine that is for the students that aren’t in that kind of track, where a high level of math is needed. If you PM me, I can send you the link to our school so that you can see.