Question for professional artist in acrylics

[sheryl]

If you are a professional artist with experience in acrylics, would you mind answering a question for me?  If there is a taker, I'd like to send you a picture (pm) of my current project to ask your advice on one aspect that's difficult for me.   Now, I'm a beginner and taking classes.  My teacher suggested a certain technique that is just not working and that is the hurdle I'm jumping over.  Any takers?  It would be simple for someone degreed and/or highly experienced.   I'm surprised it's not working out as my teacher is suggesting because she is around 60 and has been painting for 40 years or so.

This is an autumn (peak almost) landscape of a mountain view.  Reds, oranges, yellows but there are still green trees.   The underwash (what's it called again) is burnt sienna.  What she has me doing for the colored trees is ?????? 

[Tap]

Can you try on a sample board and just see how it looks? Colors really play differently with under wash and the complementary or contrasting colors adjacent. 

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tap said:

Can you try on a sample board and just see how it looks? Colors really play differently with under wash and the complementary or contrasting colors adjacent. 

Yes, play around with different colors of the underwash is something I considered earlier today but I don't know the technique b/c scattered in the foreground of the landscape are predominant colors of red, oranges, yellows and greens.  It's hard to explain and hence the reason for my post/question.  

[Junie]

I *might* be able to help you.  Dd21 is a senior studio art major, and she did her internship from home last summer and I got to watch her paint.  From my limited understanding, the underwash should be completely covered by the top layer of paint -- it won't show through at all when you are finished.  Except it will influence the undertones of the paint that you put on top.  Does that help? Or am I not understanding your question?

Edited January 26 by Junie

[Alte Veste Academy]

Your underpainting should be done with a transparent acrylic. This is for the first wash and blocking in your basic shapes and darks/lights. Your top layers, your detailed layers, should be done with opaque acrylic. With transparents, you work light to dark. With opaques, you work dark to light. 

There is no reason it should be a problem to paint with any opaque color over a Burnt Sienna underpainting. That's a pretty common color for underpainting.

[sheryl]

4 hours ago, Junie said:

I *might* be able to help you.  Dd21 is a senior studio art major, and she did her internship from home last summer and I got to watch her paint.  From my limited understanding, the underwash should be completely covered by the top layer of paint -- it won't show through at all when you are finished.  Except it will influence the undertones of the paint that you put on top.  Does that help? Or am I not understanding your question?

Thank you.  Yes, I understand the underwash but don't know how to choose the color.  My teacher wants to use burnt sienna on everything it seems.  🙂 

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Your underpainting should be done with a transparent acrylic. This is for the first wash and blocking in your basic shapes and darks/lights. Your top layers, your detailed layers, should be done with opaque acrylic. With transparents, you work light to dark. With opaques, you work dark to light. 

There is no reason it should be a problem to paint with any opaque color over a Burnt Sienna underpainting. That's a pretty common color for underpainting.

So, I'm a beginner and not buying expensive paints (Golden, WN, other).  Our supply list mentioned Liquitex Basic Acrylic (so, student grade).  I've been taught to work distance to foreground and bottom to top (like my bluebird - layer feathers on bottom and layer over top as you move up the bird).  I know nothing about transparent and opaque.  Sure, I understand definition but not a working definition with my project.  So, I don't know.  So much trial and error.  I forgot my artist guild has "open studio" Fridays.  These are open days one can come in and work on their art.  Free.  Artist teacher is available.  I met with the new instructor.  His approach was quite different and better.  I forgot to take a picture of my canvas before going in today.  If I can do it quickly, I'll recreate (to a point) the old canvas and show today's.   He basically painted the bottom half of my picture.  I don't know why art teachers don't fully explain to the beginning art teacher.  My Tuesday teacher "K" and this one today "M" both say - eh, do this and that but don't give the why behind it.  If I don't understand the process/why how can I ever do projects on my own.  Oh well....

So, going forward - yes, burnt sienna is beautiful and is used often but I'm thinking ahead to a snow scene - use burnt sienna?  And, an ocean scene complete with ocean, lighthouse, etc - use burnt sienna.  

See, I'm needing "rules" to fully understand like - "you should always look at biggest object or top half or bottom half or lightest/darkest object in reference photo to decide underpaint.  

I'll just continue to make sloooooow progress.  

[Alte Veste Academy]

Here is a chart explaining properties of the Liquitex Basics line. There is a symbol on each tube that will tell you if it is transparent or opaque. This part is important and I'm surprised the teacher didn't cover it because obviously applying transparent over opaque will give a very different effect than opaque over transparent. 

Burnt Sienna underpainting is extremely common, a first choice for many painters, even for winter scenes, yes. But it doesn't have to be yours for sure. In a while, I'm sure you'll cover more color theory, including complements, which will help you develop a feel for color use that you wouldn't intuitively think would work. You'll form your own preferences as you go.

Edited January 26 by Alte Veste Academy

[Alte Veste Academy]

This woman has a good description of the purpose and stages of underpainting. 

Here's a good video on transparent vs opaque acrylics. 

Edited January 26 by Alte Veste Academy

[sheryl]

Thanks for those! I watched the underpainting first.  Audio is low but she's very good.  Yes, it does explain it a bit.  She explained a blue one is used too but I don't know when or what color.  The other one is comprehensive for me and I can tell it will offer a lot of insight.  Hard at first b/c it's new to me.  

I actually did take a pic of the old look.  There are three I'll try to upload.   

[sheryl]

50 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Here is a chart explaining properties of the Liquitex Basics line. There is a symbol on each tube that will tell you if it is transparent or opaque. This part is important and I'm surprised the teacher didn't cover it because obviously applying transparent over opaque will give a very different effect than opaque over transparent. 

Burnt Sienna underpainting is extremely common, a first choice for many painters, even for winter scenes, yes. But it doesn't have to be yours for sure. In a while, I'm sure you'll cover more color theory, including complements, which will help you develop a feel for color use that you wouldn't intuitively think would work. You'll form your own preferences as you go.

I don't know how I missed this reply.  Thanks for this.  I'll check it out.  My teacher is self-taught but it is not through academics (not a college "class").  This is an art class through one of the local art guilds.  Burnt sienna under snow.  OK, I'm slowly getting it.  Blue under would not provide contrast.   Is that right?  What about a bright red sky/sunset over an ocean?  What color underpaint?  I'll try to upload those pics.  You'll clearly see I'm not a professional.  

[Tap]

Was an art major a lifetime ago, so my experience is old and maybe wrong. Lol Underpainting is usually the regular paint brushed on the canvas in its original form. Washes are the paint watered down (which adheres to tge canvas). A wash can also be mixed a medium, but this sits on the canvas and can change the sheen a bit based on medium. Washes with a medium are another quick way to add texture to a painting. This depends on if you like to paint on texture tho! Lol
 

Many artists tend to use the same color even if it isn’t totally logical, because they get used to how the top coat of paint is affected by the undertone. Most things have shadows, so it is common for an undercoat to be used to offer this contrast and depth. Other painters switch it up often. If someone is painting a snow scape they may or may not want warm undertones like siennas or ochers. But maybe they use it just because they  like the predictably of how the top layers will lay on top. Depends on the way they plan to use light and what they are used to. They might switch it up in diff sections too. Blocking out different areas of earth/sky, light/dark areas of subject like  bright filter light thru leaves/ dark shadows under. It is a personal painting trait and one each person develops over time. Really a great thing to play with!! Can be fun to see how under painting vs washes sffect similar art. Student grade paints and canvas board are a fairly inexpensive way to play around and I definitely encourage it. 

Edited January 27 by Tap

[sheryl]

I'm going to attempt this but have no idea if it will work.  I was in bed all weekend with a fever and today I'm moving slowly.  Below is the reference photo. I'll post the other 2 separately.  If I see it's not uploading it may be later tonight or tomorrow. 

[sheryl]

OK, this is the problem.  My art teacher steered me this way.  I have no idea what I'm doing and rely on her.  At some point (when?) we are supposed to "connect the dots".  Well, there are trees and bushes (I thought they were bushes).  She and another art teacher "M" said to paint the shapes like "trees".   She "K" said that it will look like a patch work quilt on my canvas.  Here is where I'm hung up.   They don't teach step by step to the point I need it.  I've seen some professionals online who don't use an underpaint.  Can that be right?  Anyway, each "color patch" below is suppose to have a lighter shade on top of it which represent the leaves.  But, each time (and K helped me to mix color) the color "leaves" are not seen on the backdrop of the "patchwork" which serves as tree base.  But, another "I don't get it moment" is how then to connect all the trees?  

 

Edited January 30 by sheryl

[sheryl]

So, K is my Tuesday instructor at a local art guild.  The art guild has "open studio" on Fridays where you can go in and paint by yourself or along with others who happen to be there.  It is held in the art gallery so there is a hostess there.   I walked in this past Friday (before coming down with this bug) and I walked in and told hostess I'm there for open studio (free).  She said they weren't having it that day because they were doing intake.  I added that the website said there was open studio and I was interested in another's opinion.  From behind the half way of the studio/gallery I heard M pipe up and he said he was available.  He'd be there for about another hour.  I set up.  He painted and I was still stuck.  He said do you want me to show you?  And, I said yes.  So that is his work - everything from green/color and down.  

I'm still confused because he explained a little but not to the point I need.  

There you have it. Thoughts? Ideas?  I would like to improve my artistic ability but I do need the "whys" and the "hows".  

 

Edited January 30 by sheryl

[Lecka]

I think you might look at books or videos or blogs if you need some additional information you aren’t getting in-person.

 

Someone I know is doing watercolors with Patreon.  
 

I think it’s fair to think that some things will make more sense as you get more experience just by doing more projects over time?

[sheryl]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

I think you might look at books or videos or blogs if you need some additional information you aren’t getting in-person.

 

Someone I know is doing watercolors with Patreon.  
 

I think it’s fair to think that some things will make more sense as you get more experience just by doing more projects over time?

Agree 100% but I should see little signs of improvement and don't.  I do follow a few people online and watch YT tutorials.  Still, the questions I have aren't being answered which tells me that art work is very personal and not one size fits all.  Still, I'm looking for little rules to follow - ABC's.