Proof-Less Geometry Options

[Green Bean]

Would MUS Geometry work for a kid headed into a chemistry degree? He's currently using TT for algebra 1 and excelling after many years of struggle, but TT Geometry is proof-based and rather intense, or so their sales rep told me. Will not doing proofs impact him taking TT pre-Cal or College Alg? Any other options?

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Green Bean

[stripe]

Proofs are how math is traditionally taught and how it is discussed academically. It is excellent training in logic as well. But for problem solving, it is not required, and proofs are not how other math subjects are taught. (I don’t know anything about MUS though.)

[EKS]

TT has proofs that can be skipped.  It is definitely not intense.  It is a standard non-honors geometry resource.  I would expect that a kid who wants to major in chemistry to have no trouble with it.  

[Green Bean]

Just for the record, I called TT about skipping the proofs and there is no way to do so without purposly missing every problem.

We bought MUS Geometry.

[EKS]

On 9/22/2023 at 1:54 PM, Green Bean said:

Just for the record, I called TT about skipping the proofs and there is no way to do so without purposly missing every problem.

We bought MUS Geometry.

This makes no sense.  I realize that it’s auto graded now, but when we did it there were like two proofs at the end of each problem set.  You just skip those.  Even if the computer were to mark them wrong, you could easily fix the grade it gives.  There is no way that every problem is a proof.

Edited November 24, 2023 by EKS

[8filltheheart]

Chemistry is extremely tough as a major. P chem and organic are often weeder courses. A student who cant manage TT geo will unlikely succeed in those courses.  In addition to those, calculus and physics are both going to be significantly more complex in thinking through how to solve a problem than TT geometry.

Yes, MUS's geo is incredibly light in proofs, but succeeding in that course without being able to logic through basic proof steps is not going to serve him well when he will be facing nothing but using problem solving as a chem major. 

It might be beneficial for him to work through proofs to develop skills in thinking through how to approach solving the problem.

Edited September 23, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[EKS]

1 hour ago, 8filltheheart said:

Chemistry is extremely tough as a major. P chem and organic are often weeder courses. A student who cant manage TT geo will unlikely succeed in those courses.

I agree with this.  That said, the son who did TT geometry did require quite a bit of extra input from me (on top of the instruction in the course) to learn how to write proofs properly.  He majored in robotics engineering.

We used TT Geometry back when they had parent graded problems done on paper.  This means that students had to write proofs and do everything else from scratch.  Now, from what I remember (they no longer have an entire sample lesson online so I can't check), there is a multiple choice aspect to the proof problems since the proofs  (and everything else) are done on the computer and are auto-graded.  If it works the way ALEKS does (which I have personally used to review geometry), this makes proof writing much easier than it would otherwise be.

I still don't understand why the proof problems can't be skipped.  If there are 25 problems and it gives zeroes for the two proof problems, you just regrade the assignment in your records to eliminate those problems.  So if the proofs were worth two points and the student missed a point somewhere else and got 22/25, their actual score would be 22/23.

[Serenade]

I didn't feel TT Geometry was especially hard, and I didn't feel it had an overabundance of proofs, either.  I think my son who used this program got frustrated with it at times because of the way the problems were graded (I don't remember specifically why), but the program served my son well when he needed to work on math independently from me. 😁 FWIW, he majored in biology with a chem minor in college, and he did well. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Serenade