My Phonics Reality

[Christine]

ummm, just the title of the post, not a curricula. . .

 

I HATE phonics! Despise, might be a better word.

 

I, apparently, was taught using the "whole language" (sight) approach. And now that I've tried the phonics approach, I truly can't understand why anyone would do it this way!

 

Background:

 

Took DS2 out of school end of his second grade year (we'd homeschooled before, but because we were in an awful school situation, and moved in the middle of his 1st grade year, so put he and DS1 back in school), as he couldn't read, and they were going to move him forward.

 

We did one year of ETC. BLECH! (That was mostly a "visual thing", as the drawings drove us to distraction.)

 

Now, I have two younguns' that I need to teach to read, and finally decided the phonics route was the way to go.

 

And I have a neighbor that has a fascination with phonics, so between her and I; I think we had in our respective possessions the majority of phonics programs out there for me to review. Lots of programs were dashed upon the rocks for visual reasons. (Dots and dashes, vowel colors, etc.)

 

I wound up going with Phonics Pathways.

 

And I'm going insane.

 

"The" is neither "thee" or "th-eh"; it's "th-uh". "Come" has a short u sound and a silent "e". I came up with a hundred examples just going through the 1st reader I want to start on (Pathway Readers), and I wonder why on earth am I going through the agony of teaching children phonics, if I'll then turn around and continually say "except". "The phonics rules apply EXCEPT here, and here, and here. . . "

 

Worse, I got all tied up in short e and short i. Because I apparently don't say them correctly. I've ben told I pronounce "Ben" as "Bin" and "pen" as "pin". . .And as frequently as people like to point his out to me, and wind up screwing their faces into those ever-lasting hilarious contortions, I honestly can't HEAR the difference, even when they say it "correctly". (But, it's fun to have people continually try. . . ) It must be the "-en" combination, as no-one has ever remarked on my "jet", or "pet" or others. . .

 

To be perfectly honest, we haven't even made it through the first bit (alphabet introduction), because I'll get insanely frustrated thinking of all the example that don't fit, that I put it down for a bit.

 

So, I'm thinking I just need to chuck the program, and go it my own way.

 

But, then I think I'll "fail" them in some manner. Because "everyone" says the phonics way is the best way. . .

 

*sigh*

 

I don't know that I even have a question here. . .just needed to "release".

Edited December 19, 2008 by Christine

[flyingmommy]

I'm just going to throw this out there! Maybe Phonics Pathways is not the best way to go for you. This is my first year teaching phonics, but I do remember having phonics in school. I also remember that my DS (20) didn't have them and to this day has phonics-related problems. Needless to say, I am not a fan of the sight-word strategy.

This year we are using Rod & Staff phonics. I have to say we really enjoy it. Any time we come upon something that I know there are exceptions to, I have learned to not worry about it because it will come up a little later in the program. My DD (7 3/4) is really learning the material and is remembering it. I am seeing a huge improvement in her spelling as she learns phonics. She is a major phonetic speller and learning all the variations of ways to spell the sounds has increased her retention of the correct spelling of tricky words.

 

And don't worry, my kids can't hear the short "e" sound as different from the short "i" sound either. LOL I can but only because as a child I made a conscious choice to learn to speak as well as possible. My dad is a hillbilly and my mom is a hick. Nice people, love my relatives, but serious accents. I don't think they knew what to do with me.

 

Jeannie

[FO4UR]

Have you see the Writing Road to Reading by Spalding in all of your phonics materials??? It's very different than Phonics Pathways, esp when it comes to teaching 100000 rules with exceptions.

 

As far as pronouncing words differently than they are spelled....are you from the south? midwest? :tongue_smilie: I know lots of people pronounce pen as "pin", and I understand how that would be confusing. I make a point during spelling time to pronounce as a word is spelled rather than how I usually say it in normal conversation.

 

"The" actually derives from "thee" and so that's why it's spelled with an e. Actually, we still pronounce "thee" when it comes before a word that starts with a vowel. "thee earth" vs "thu world"

 

There are some interesting threads on Webster's Syllablary that are worth doing a search for as well.

 

hth

[Stacy in NJ]

Yes, there are many exceptions to the rules. But, you do need to pick a program and stick with it. If you find it frustrating, think how confusing it must be for your ds to begin one program (via school) come home, switch to another program or strategy, then switch to a new program again.

 

If you expect him to make progress you need to provide some consistency in your teaching. Its no tragedy that he's 7 and not reading, but will that be true if he's 9 and not reading?

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but has a mother of a dyslexic child, who literal spent 6 years from ages 4 to 10 learning to read, sometimes messing about isn't okay. Now, that's probably NOT your ds's situation, but you should keep in the mind the "what if's".

[Jill- OK]

...I think "My Phonics Reality" would be a wonderful first installment for the homeschooling mom television series we should all write and star in. "My Phonics Reality" immediately brought to mind "My So-Called Life", lol...I guess that's what gave me the idea. ("Yeah, I Know What Causes It" would be the next episode, focusing on witty responses for homeschoolers with lots of kids). But "My Phonics Reality" would be a good name for a curriculum, too, lol.

 

Okay, now that I've got that out...:D

 

What about just focusing on letter sounds and reading Bob books for a while? I'm not kidding, the Letter Factory DVD and Bob books were about all it took for a couple of my kids to get really rolling. I do have Phonics Pathways, and Reading Reflex, and to be honest...I tend to just switch back and forth between them, when we need some concrete instruction, and just 'wing it' the rest of the time.

 

In other words...you don't have to use any of these programs as laid out, you can be totally successful just 'winging it', and if correct pronunciation was required to teach kids to read...no one from Oklahoma would ever learn.

 

Keep your chin up! And do it "Your Way"! (Cue Frank Sinatra music...)

[Christine]

Took DS2 out of school end of his second grade year (we'd homeschooled before, but because we were in an awful school situation, and moved in the middle of his 1st grade year, so put he and DS1 back in school), as he couldn't read, and they were going to move him forward.

 

We did one year of ETC.

 

 

Yes, there are many exceptions to the rules. But, you do need to pick a program and stick with it. If you find it frustrating, think how confusing it must be for your ds to begin one program (via school) come home, switch to another program or strategy, then switch to a new program again.

 

If you expect him to make progress you need to provide some consistency in your teaching. Its no tragedy that he's 7 and not reading, but will that be true if he's 9 and not reading?

 

Oooh, need to clarify this real quick (then I need to get my day started and will check / respond to the other posts as I can).

 

DS2 is now 14, and reads incredibly well (better than DS1 even). That, ETC experience, was 6 years ago.

 

I'm now working on DS3 & 4 (ages 7 and 5 - almost 6), who have never been to public school and are just now showing interest in learning to read. Up to this point they have only had exposure to PP.

[CookieMonster]

The teaching of reading can be mighty boring.

 

It is a tedious business.

 

While I point to a word I've read - cat - in less than a nanosecond I have to sit patiently with a smile and hear:

 

/c/ -- /a/ -- /t/, /c/ /aaaaa/ /t/, cat?, cat!

 

Umm, yeah, that makes for rolling good times.

 

What I'm trying to say is that being frustrated, bored, and oh-so-over the teaching of reading is normal. This can be especially true in the very beginning stages: letter sounds, sounding out consonant-vowel-consonant words, and those first long vowel sounds.

 

This is why I think it might be a good idea to get a phonics program with a bit of "fun" built in. Colorful worksheets, chants and rhymes, games, make the experience a little more varied. I'm doing OPGTR exlusively right now. But I plan to add in something else soon to add spice and variety - as well as review.

 

And yes, the exceptions can be frustrating. But, I've learned that a good phonics program gets to them later on and it all makes sense. It reminds me of teaching any difficult concept to young children: you give them what they can grasp, even if it's not the "complete" picture (science topics come to mind). Depending on who you consult, 65-85% of our language is phonetically based, so phonics does have it's place in beginning instruction.

 

I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you: not hearing the difference between /i/ and /e/ in /en/ words.

[Tabrett]

You can't use Pathway Readers with Phonics Pathways!

 

Pathway Readers are whole language readers. If you want to use their readers, get their workbooks. My oldest dd use them and they are very good. Pathway Readers introduce all new word in their workbooks and the new words are used in the corresponding stories in their reader.

Pathway Readers would be great once you child has completed PP's.

 

Honestly, I think you need Rod and Staff 1 or MFW 1st!

 

Rod and Staff teaches phonics and sight words at the same time. It is designed to get a child reading fluently fast and is designed for kids who start school at 7 and not 5. It sounds like you would enjoy the blend of methods.

 

The other option I would suggest is MFW 1st. It goes through a complete phonics program in one year. It might be just the right speed for your dc. As long as your dc can read cvc words, he is ready for MFW 1. It includes a Bible reader. MFW also teaches some "sight word". PP's is one of the first programs I have encountered that doesn't teach hardly any sight words.

 

I use Reading Pathways as my reader along with SL Fun Tales. Reading Pathways is designed to go with PP's. If you go to PP's web site there are readers that go well with PP's from other companies.

 

One more suggestion. If you want to keep using PP's (which I personally love) and want to incorporate whole language yourself, you could go here and start making printing out the Dolch flash cards and teach them along with PP's. It would help you dc get into readers faster.

[ElizabethB]

Try Don Potter's Blend Phonics, it just focuses on the 85% of words that are 100% decodable.

 

http://www.donpotter.net/ed.htm

 

Short e and short i are very close sounds, especially in words that end in n. I overteach short i in my phonics lessons, teaching it in the first 3 lessons, then introduce short e in lesson 4. My Southern students especially have trouble hearing the difference between i and e.

 

There are a fair amount of exceptions, but they run about it groups of exceptions, like s as z: has, is, as. Also, there is a reason for the u sound of come:

 

"Hanna, Paul R, Richard E. Hodges, and Jean S. Hanna, "Spelling: Structure and Strategies," 1971. p.44: " During the Middle English period, a certain type of angular writing was in vogue which resulted in some ambiguity for the reader when u was followed by an m, n, or u (sometimes written v or w.) Consequently, scribes replaced the u with o, and that spelling is retained in some words used today, e.g. come, monk, love, tongue, some, honey, son."

 

For more about the most common exceptions, see my sight word page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

 

Students taught with phonics take these exceptions in stride.

 

Also, your concerns about the sounds are actually true for another reason: true sounds are not letter sounds, but syllable sounds. That's another reason in and en are so close in sound. Webster's Speller teaches by syllable. My dyslexia page explains about syllables and how they're truly the building blocks of words and why they're good to teach with:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dyslexia.html

 

I can assure you from teaching scores of remedial students that you do want to use phonics first, it's much harder to remediate after the fact than to teach correctly the first way.

 

There is also a rule about the and a (from my sight word page):

 

"This word is regular with its long e sound before words beginning with vowels. Before words beginning with consonants, the e sound will mush to the schwa sound of uh:

the (long e in the end, uh sound in the bears)

 

This word is similiar to the. It is generally mushed to the schwa sound of uh; however, it will retain its long sound when used for emphasis.

a (usually uh sound, long a sound for emphasis, use an before words beginning with vowels.)"

 

When you teach the major exception and a few rules, the percent of English that is totally regular is much higher, in the 90%s somewhere, I've seen estimates between 94 to 99%.

 

Also, the exceptions are generally vowels, and usually schwa'd vowels in unaccented syllables. If you use Webster, they'll get taught by accent and be learned naturally by pattern. If you don't, most students taught with a good phonics program will be able to read them, try reading the following sentences with vowels removed to see (They're imbedded in graphics, I can't cut and paste them):

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/phonicsbasics.html

 

Here's Don Potter's take on the difference between i and e:

 

"Exaggeration is the key to distinguishing short e and short i. Try beating your chest with i and you get a squeak, do it with short e and your get a roar. The i is high in the front of the mouth, e is deep in the chest or back of the throat. The e takes much more energy which explains why we so often avoid it and attempt to read words like pen as pin. Kids who learn with phonics-first get the sounds down before they start reading and therefore do not confuse them when reading, even though they may adopt the dialectical peculiarity (I hesitate to say fault.) that fails to distinguish them. When I first started teaching phonics, I was dumbfounded to learn that there was a difference in the pronunciation of “pen†and “pin.â€"

[Closeacademy]

For my Visual Spatial learner who just wants the facts and get on with it The Writing Road to Reading or Spell to Write and Read phonograms worked. (It took 5 years from learning the abcs to reading books with actual chapters) We tried a variety of programs but used this one for about 3 years off and on while she picked up sight words on her own

 

For my bookish child who learns best by stories--Rod and Staff Reading is awesome. It has phonics, sight words, grammar, readng comprehension, character, thinking skills, coloring and introduces us to a different culture.

 

Programs tried and failed for us:

 

Teach your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons

Phonics Pathways

Sonlight Language Arts K (2003 version)

Hooked on Phonic (level 1 was great got stuck on level 2)

A word wall for sight words

phonics worksheets

 

 

Just my 2 cents on what is out there.:001_smile:

[Caroline4kids]

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/phonicsbasics.html

 

 

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE The Phonics Page! Are you the creator? My children went through these lessons last summer and they all got up to speed phonetically very fast. I had gaps from previous whole language experience and so did my children. Anyway, thephonicspage.org is a great site and a blessing.

[cillakat]

I'm just going to throw this out there! Maybe Phonics Pathways is not the best way to go for you.

 

2nd.

 

When someone is having a problem teaching phonics or student is having problems learning to read with phonics, it's not a phonics problem a but a curriculum problem (if the teacher or student is struggling) or a teacher problem (if the student is struggling)

 

 

ETC is not a phonics teaching curriculum. It's a supplement to give additional practice. Some kids do get phonics from it and nothing else. Others don't.

 

Whole Language results in about a 40% illiteracy and poor reader rate. Phonics results in none.....if those that fall in the 20% dyslexic category get the additional support they need with multi sensory incremental phonics.

 

Perhaps you might consider

 

HEC Reading Horizons

http://www.readinghorizonsathome.com/homeschool.aspx

 

Wilson Language

http://www.fundations.com/

 

 

Click 'n Read is a great supplement (computer based) which can be purchased inexpensively via homeschoolbuyersco-op.com

 

Explode the Code online can be purchased via the hsbc as well

 

Starfall can be used initially to teach letter sounds.

 

Dancing Bears (prometheantrust.org) and I See Sam books (http://www.roadstoeverywhere.com/3RsPlusRead.html) are also excellent easy ways to teach phonics.

 

 

Phonics really is the way to go. There is a massive body of scientific literature that supports it. Whole Language (aka balanced approach, mixed approach etc) just doesn't work most of the time, and even when it does work it results in many readers not being as strong at reading and spelling as they would have been with phonics.

 

All the best,

K

[cillakat]

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but has a mother of a dyslexic child, who literal spent 6 years from ages 4 to 10 learning to read, sometimes messing about isn't okay. Now, that's probably NOT your ds's situation, but you should keep in the mind the "what if's".

 

I agree with Stacey.

 

My dd's reading wasn't going well in K and First. Well, it was going moderately okay, but just not *swimmingly*. I had my suspicions but was told she was reading fine and had no likely reading issues.

 

They were wrong. :cursing: She is absolutely dyselxic and now we're intensively remediating the issues.....the actual reading issues and the ones caused by the ridiculous 'three cueing system' (aka Whole language). She was explicitly told nonesense like 'look at the beginning of the word, the end of the word and check the pictures for clues'. EXPLICITLY!!!!:banghead:

 

It's taken us years to get past that. Literally. She's 9.5 now and reading far below grade level....she's making great gains....but of course so is everyone who learned to read when they were supposed to. Those who learn to read later tend to never read as well and never catch up academically to their peers who read earlier. It has to do with the vocabulary that begins to amass when they are able to learn rather than continuing to learn to read.

 

For kids who are having trouble learning to read, keep this in the forefront of your mind:

1)15% of them will 'eventually' learn to read with no interventions and simply normal instruction. They're just on a different timetable.

 

2)85% of them have some sort of reading disability and need intervention asap.

 

Since the interventions can do no harm (ie intensive direct instruction explicit phonics) it's worth starting sooner rather than later.

 

The alternatives (whole language/implicit phonics....or waiting) can do *great* harm.

 

:grouphug:

[PollyOR]

I don't use a program. I help my kids sound out three letter CVC words (cat, etc.) and then introduce sight words (the, etc.) as they come up. We work with books we have here at home and move on to progressively "harder" books.

 

The two (2nd & 3rd dd's) I helped learn to read are very different. One is towards the whole language end of the spectrum and the other is towards the phonics end. I had to work with their strengths. We kept plugging away.

 

My favorite resources for very beginning readers are the Leap Frog DVD's - The Letter Factory and The Word Factory.

[Christine]

:blink:

 

Whew! Okay, I'll need a bit to catch up!

 

Just got back from taking 4 boys Christmas shopping and you just. can't. know. how painful that was/is! (Worse, they aren't done!!!)

 

Just wanted to post so you don't think I've "turtled" on you.

 

That's a verb, honest. I've said it at least 3 times. . . (Okay, and just so you know, it really is a verb -- I looked it up; but it means "to hunt for turtles" which is not how I meant it. . .I'm going for some coffee, I'll be back once my head clears.)

[ElizabethB]

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE The Phonics Page! Are you the creator? My children went through these lessons last summer and they all got up to speed phonetically very fast. I had gaps from previous whole language experience and so did my children. Anyway, thephonicspage.org is a great site and a blessing.

 

Thanks! Yes, that's me! My husband helps when I have technical issues and my daughter helps a bit--she helps me review the movies, and she's now helping me make a movie explaining how to use Webster's Speller. My son is mostly not helpful, but he's cute.

 

I'm glad it helped you all out, that's why I put them online.

[ElizabethB]

The alternatives (whole language/implicit phonics....or waiting) can do *great* harm.

 

 

I agree. It takes 5 to 10 times longer to remediate than to just to do it right in the first place, and they lose years of independent reading and vocabulary development in the interim. Also, while I have successfully remediated older children and adults, it takes much longer, the earlier you start the better.

Edited December 19, 2008 by ElizabethB