National Latin Exam - potential curriculum paths for preparation

[Ting Tang]

Last year, my son started Memoria Press First Form Latin as a 4th grader (accelerated track).  It is a grammar-based program, but it just didn't work for him.  We switched to Minimus, the elementary Cambridge Latin program.  This year, I plan to have him use Minimus Secundus if we can squeeze it in. He definitely does better with a more immersive program that includes more history, culture, and color.

I had high hopes that he could somehow sit for the first NLE exam in due time. 

Has anyone had a child sit for the NLE exam?  What curriculums did you use?

I was thinking we would do Cambridge Latin at some point during middle school.  I have sort of "let go" of the NLE idea a bit because my son isn't super studious.  So if it doesn't work out for him, maybe I can use these ideas for my others.

[8filltheheart]

Lots of posters have had kids take the NLE using a wide variety of programs.  There isn't a "right" one.  FWIW, your ds is in what, 5th grade?  No reason to decide he can't sit for the NLE at this pt.  FWIW, I have a very strong language loving dd.  She took the introductory level NLE in 6th and didn't take level 1 until 7th.   Plenty of kids don't take the NLE level 1 until 9th.  

[The Governess]

My dd completed First Form and Second Form before she took the NLE Intro exam. From there she moved on to Lukeion Latin - they use Wheelock’s.

[8filltheheart]

I wanted to add that for some kids learning Latin slowly and at a younger age backfires.  It simply makes them tired of it.  Starting older at a faster pace can lead to greater mastery.  (My kids who studied Latin didn't start until at least 6th grade.  They finished Latin grammar (the equivalent of Wheelock's) in 3 yrs.  If they had started in high school, they could have spent 2 yrs on grammar and have started focusing on prose/poetry in yr 3.  The older they are, the faster content can be mastered.)  There is no reason to drag it out for yrs.

[LostintheCosmos]

First, I agree with 8. Just because your student didn't love a pretty dry grammar-drill based program like First Form in 4th grade doesn't necessarily say much about his future Latin studies. Latin is a very big priority in our homeschool, and my elementary students get a lot of Latin and Latin-related input, but I save explicit grammar instruction until 6th grade or so depending on the kid. 

Second, have you looked at the NLE syllabi? They will give you a sense of what grammar, vocab, and cultural content is covered on each exam, and then you can use that to compare to what your curriculum covers. A note from that page that I would highlight: "In general, the exam is designed to emphasize comprehension of Latin rather than the production of forms." Outside of neoclassical schools, Cambridge and Ecce Romani are the most commonly used curricula in B&M schools, and either of those could be a good choice, if maybe not quite as homeschool-user-friendly as MP. 

Lastly, there is actually another exam designed to be taken before the NLE, the Exploratory Latin Exam which, so confusingly, is on a different website. Why the ACL needs a separate website for everything it does, I do not understand, but there it is. There is a sample exam here. You could have a 6th grader take that, then try the NLE 1/2 in 7th.

Edited August 2, 2022 by LostCove

[Ting Tang]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:09 PM, The Governess said:

My dd completed First Form and Second Form before she took the NLE Intro exam. From there she moved on to Lukeion Latin - they use Wheelock’s.

Thank you so much for sharing! I will have to take a closer look at that alternative source. I am not sure when the MP forms would ever appeal to my son, lol.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

On 8/2/2022 at 6:31 AM, 8filltheheart said:

I wanted to add that for some kids learning Latin slowly and at a younger age backfires.  It simply makes them tired of it.  Starting older at a faster pace can lead to greater mastery.  (My kids who studied Latin didn't start until at least 6th grade.  They finished Latin grammar (the equivalent of Wheelock's) in 3 yrs.  If they had started in high school, they could have spent 2 yrs on grammar and have started focusing on prose/poetry in yr 3.  The older they are, the faster content can be mastered.)  There is no reason to drag it out for yrs.

I wondered that, too.  My son was not mature enough for First Form Latin, or what was required to master it. I do see how it would have been helpful for English grammar, too, but it was just too much for him (and for me).  He has more fun with the mouse comic strip Latin.  I have been looking at Royal Fireworks Press for Latin, too, but I think we will do the second Minimus book this year and just spread it out.  We have other things to work on, and he will get a lot of the roots in his vocabulary book anyway.  He is only going into 5th grade.  I am also not opposed to exploring various languages.  

 

[Ting Tang]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:06 PM, LostCove said:

First, I agree with 8. Just because your student didn't love a pretty dry grammar-drill based program like First Form in 4th grade doesn't necessarily say much about his future Latin studies. Latin is a very big priority in our homeschool, and my elementary students get a lot of Latin and Latin-related input, but I save explicit grammar instruction until 6th grade or so depending on the kid. 

Second, have you looked at the NLE syllabi? They will give you a sense of what grammar, vocab, and cultural content is covered on each exam, and then you can use that to compare to what your curriculum covers. A note from that page that I would highlight: "In general, the exam is designed to emphasize comprehension of Latin rather than the production of forms." Outside of neoclassical schools, Cambridge and Ecce Romani are the most commonly used curricula in B&M schools, and either of those could be a good choice, if maybe not quite as homeschool-user-friendly as MP. 

Lastly, there is actually another exam designed to be taken before the NLE, the Exploratory Latin Exam which, so confusingly, is on a different website. Why the ACL needs a separate website for everything it does, I do not understand, but there it is. There is a sample exam here. You could have a 6th grader take that, then try the NLE 1/2 in 7th.

Thank you so much!  Yes, I felt 4th was rather young, and I honestly don't think a whole lot has changed at this point.  I didn't know that Cambridge and Ecce was the most commonly used curriculums---I've been looking at those!  And thank you for these resources. I am going to check them out!

[8filltheheart]

If it makes you feel any better, nothing MP would ever appeal to anyone in my family.  If school was reduced to MP, I'd quit homeschooling bc I would go out of my mind.  I used a Latin program that is no longer being published called So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep.  It was interesting and engaging while still being a solidly paced introduction to Latin.  I never recommend Latin before 6th grade.  

[Ting Tang]

2 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

If it makes you feel any better, nothing MP would ever appeal to anyone in my family.  If school was reduced to MP, I'd quit homeschooling bc I would go out of my mind.  I used a Latin program that is no longer being published called So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep.  It was interesting and engaging while still being a solidly paced introduction to Latin.  I never recommend Latin before 6th grade.  

I think for us the MP forms series wasn't going to work because he had such little frame of reference for Latin.  The textbook had little snippets of culture and history, but it just wasn't enough for him to be engaged.  And I am as new to Latin as the kids are myself, but my language programs were always fun and colorful--even in college!

[2_girls_mommy]

I used MP Latina Christiana- fourth form in grades 4-9.  My dd took the ELEs until around 7th grade when she switched to the intro level of NLEs then took levels 1-4 in 8-11th grades .  After 9th grade she used Henle 1-3.    I did however always supplement MP with lots of culture.  I started a Latin club at co-op using the NLE syllabi from their website and did history stories from Famous Men of Rome, had them do timelines, learn mythology, do mapwork, wrote a play about Julius Caesar in modern speak which was hilarious and they performed it twice at different co-ops,) played games with the other vocab words like "I spy" for the colors, Mother, May I? for the numbers, and sung songs like Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes with different body parts.   We did all of that as fun with a group which prepared them for the parts of NLE that weren't in MP. 

[Dianthus]

MP has an NLE supplement. Perhaps you could just get that.

MP also didn't work for our family, but I would look at and consider a supplement like that. I think it just contains the cultural references that may be missing from many Latin courses. My ds10 will be in 5th grade and is finishing GSWL and then will do KGWL. My dd12 did FFL last year and it was ok, but I can't believe it's designed for 4th grade. My son would have hated it, and he loves the easy GSWL and it's just giving some easy exposure.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Dianthus

[Ting Tang]

On 8/6/2022 at 11:12 PM, 2_girls_mommy said:

I used MP Latina Christiana- fourth form in grades 4-9.  My dd took the ELEs until around 7th grade when she switched to the intro level of NLEs then took levels 1-4 in 8-11th grades .  After 9th grade she used Henle 1-3.    I did however always supplement MP with lots of culture.  I started a Latin club at co-op using the NLE syllabi from their website and did history stories from Famous Men of Rome, had them do timelines, learn mythology, do mapwork, wrote a play about Julius Caesar in modern speak which was hilarious and they performed it twice at different co-ops,) played games with the other vocab words like "I spy" for the colors, Mother, May I? for the numbers, and sung songs like Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes with different body parts.   We did all of that as fun with a group which prepared them for the parts of NLE that weren't in MP. 

Thank you so much!  I wish MP included that right off the bat, but the good news is the exploratory exam has materials to buy for exam prep.  So once the new year's syllabus is released, I will look into that! And what fun ideas!  Sometimes I think I am not fun enough at home...

 

On 8/7/2022 at 10:15 AM, Dianthus said:

MP has an NLE supplement. Perhaps you could just get that.

MP also didn't work for our family, but I would look at and consider a supplement like that. I think it just contains the cultural references that may be missing from many Latin courses. My ds10 will be in 5th grade and is finishing GSWL and then will do KGWL. My dd12 did FFL last year and it was ok, but I can't believe it's designed for 4th grade. My son would have hated it, and he loves the easy GSWL and it's just giving some easy exposure.

Yes, I think those materials are probably great!  Yeah, I think FFL would appeal to a very specific subset of 4th graders and 5th graders.  Neither of us were so excited about it that it was hard to put in the necessary time for it.  Looking back, it was a mistake.  I probably would have done fine with it in school, but it wasn't for him.  

[Slache]

Agreeing with everything 8 said, as always.

My kid is only in 6th, but my plan is Getting Started With Latin in 5th, then Keep Going With Latin and Oxford. My reason for using Oxford is that the only actual person that I know who loves and speaks Latin told me to. I do love Oxford and it is my intention that my children take the National Latin Exam.

[Ting Tang]

On 8/9/2022 at 5:50 PM, Slache said:

Agreeing with everything 8 said, as always.

My kid is only in 6th, but my plan is Getting Started With Latin in 5th, then Keep Going With Latin and Oxford. My reason for using Oxford is that the only actual person that I know who loves and speaks Latin told me to. I do love Oxford and it is my intention that my children take the National Latin Exam.

Thank you so much! I will take another look at Oxford. Many seem to like that. I sure hope we can get to the NLE! If my kids go to public high school, though, we will have to figure out alternative plans for continuing… no Latin there! 

[cintinative]

I'm not necessarily recommending this progression, but we did Latin for Children A and B, and then Latin Alive and took the Latin 1 NLE.  My oldest took the Latin 2 NLE after finishing Latin Alive 2 and got a perfect paper.  Again, not necessarily recommending this progression or this curriculum, but they were definitely prepared.

[Ting Tang]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:54 PM, cintinative said:

I'm not necessarily recommending this progression, but we did Latin for Children A and B, and then Latin Alive and took the Latin 1 NLE.  My oldest took the Latin 2 NLE after finishing Latin Alive 2 and got a perfect paper.  Again, not necessarily recommending this progression or this curriculum, but they were definitely prepared.

Thank you!  I have heard good things about Latin Alive in particular.  🙂