What would Raymond Moore advise?

[wide eyes & laughter]

My dd5 (nearly 6) initiated school for herself last year. I took it slowly (I've always "bought" into the Moore's teaching: later is better), following her lead pretty much. She learned all basic phonograms - recognition and sounds, but didn't want to write them. Not w/ a whiteboard, shaving cream, nothing. So I just read books to her and reviewed phonograms and "everyone was happy".

 

This year, I figured it's time to take a slow next step: I ordered the SWR sandpaper letters. Now she knows how to form the letters and does fine with that. However, she doesn't want to write words. She says she wants to learn to read one minute; then says she doesn't the next! We added math to her school this year (Sept). She says she wishes we could just do school like last year and just read books together. I know I've "robbed" her from board books and picture books, as my older 2 enjoy Read Aloud Chapter books (as do I, admittedly). So, I don't read many picture books. I've tried ds9 to read to her - something he doesn't enjoy but will do every now and then.

 

Here's my Q: Do I "encourage" her forward? Do I leave it all behind and just read picture books to her and figure one day she'll beg to learn (like Carole Joy Seid has promised they will, LOL) or a little of both? Maybe review phonograms once a week, drop math, and just read, read, read??

 

My main goal is not to squelch her long term love of learning. Yet, I wonder if I let her play all day, will she ever want to learn? Do I need to read Moore's book again? Take a chill pill? What?:confused:

 

Any experience would be sooooooo appreciated! TIA,

 

Cheryl

[Peela]

Well do you subscribe to the philosophy of Classical education, such as in TWTM? Or, the Moores? The Bluedorns, who are Classical, suggest starting later with formal work, the same as the Moores. Much is done in those years, much is learned, but not formally.

I think it depends on your philosophy. WIll you feel bad if your daughter doesn't want to do sit down work for another 3 years, or will that be ok with you because you see her learning in other areas anyway?

I think my son may have benefitted more from the Moores philosophy, but my dd has been fine with academics all along.

But if I were to start again...I might well just make my son sit down for a few minutes a day to do some formal work. It might help to "get into the habit" so to speak.

[Ellie]

Have you read "The Moore Formula"? If not, maybe it will answer some of your questions. If so, maybe you could read it again. :-)

[wide eyes & laughter]

Well do you subscribe to the philosophy of Classical education, such as in TWTM? Or, the Moores? The Bluedorns, who are Classical, suggest starting later with formal work, the same as the Moores. Much is done in those years, much is learned, but not formally.

I think it depends on your philosophy. WIll you feel bad if your daughter doesn't want to do sit down work for another 3 years, or will that be ok with you because you see her learning in other areas anyway?

I think my son may have benefitted more from the Moores philosophy, but my dd has been fine with academics all along.

But if I were to start again...I might well just make my son sit down for a few minutes a day to do some formal work. It might help to "get into the habit" so to speak.

 

Thanks for your questions, Peela. My philosophies have evolved so much - I don't know how I would label myself, actually. Not to mention my dreadful capacity to remember the things I read which shaped my thinking in the first place!

 

I am a mixture of Moore's & CM w/ a smidge of Classical by now. Perhaps Classical will pick up as we move along, I don't know!

 

I already do feel bad for dd7 who isn't yet reading. She is a very bright child with keen, quick insights but lacks self-confidence when it comes to her "smarts" - b/c she isn't reading. Unfortunately, she compares herself to her brother, 9, who excels at whatever he does. If she weren't so insecure about this area, I certainly wouldn't be! But she compares herself to, not only her brother, but other kids in our co-op (not academically driven, btw).

 

I am beginning to rethink some things w/regards to my dc. My ds9, for example, never begged to learn to read (which, truly, after listening to Carole Seid, proponent of the Moore's, I WAS expecting!). Nevertheless, when I began to doubt that he would ever beg, I sat him down and began formal education. He took off like a shot. He loves to read ALL things; enjoys learning. Not worried about his love of learning over the long haul.

 

I am worried about dd7 and dd5. Dd7 struggles w/ wanting to learn, unless it is auditorially which, of course, is her style/strength. Given the chance to listen, she could for hours. And learn, she does! (That's when I hear insights that WOW me.) For her, we are taking the non-auditory slowly but I do "encourage strongly" her sitting down to SWR. From Wanda Sanseri's advice re: dd7 on the SWR Yahoo loop, I am happy w/the way things are going, I guess. I want her to love learning to read - she doesn't. BUT she is learning and the end will justify the means. Iow, I don't think this process will threaten her love of learning. But she is older and her self-assurance depends on learning to read.

 

Dd5 (my original question) is the one I am wondering whether to push or not. She is kinesthetic but sitting for formalized learning is not the issue; her attn span can handle it. However, she is not interested in history as my other 2 dc. She doesn't get involved much in the other learning opportunities. To answer your question - no, I don't think I would be OK with her not learning for another 3 yrs! Yikes. The thought scares me. I read Ellie's link to the Moore site.... I guess the problem is me.

 

Peela, can you tell me why you would have your son sit down to more formal learning sooner than you did - any reasons other than formation of better habits?

 

Anyone else?

 

 

Thank you so much for any encouragement or advice!

[wide eyes & laughter]

Have you read "The Moore Formula"? If not, maybe it will answer some of your questions. If so, maybe you could read it again. :-)

 

 

Thanks, Ellie, for posting this link. I went back and reread the Moore philosophy... but maybe what I'm doing is questioning this philosophy, LOL.

 

In theory it sounds good. But my ds9 would still not be reading if I waited around for him to "beg" for it! He would have missed out on a ton of enjoyment, too. He loves to read. Anyhow, I'm gonna just repeat myself here....

 

Thanks :)

[Colleen in NS]

I would get them into a routine of school to learn skills like reading, writing, spelling, and math. Even if you go slowly because of their ages, just get into the habit, don't make it a choice. All the history and science and lit. stuff will follow later, if you get them going in skills.

 

I know of several homeschoolers who did not initiate teaching these basic skills (waiting for their kids to initiate), and I know of their huge struggles later on down the road.

[angela in ohio]

I would get them into a routine of school to learn skills like reading, writing, spelling, and math. Even if you go slowly because of their ages, just get into the habit, don't make it a choice. All the history and science and lit. stuff will follow later, if you get them going in skills.

 

I know of several homeschoolers who did not initiate teaching these basic skills (waiting for their kids to initiate), and I know of their huge struggles later on down the road.

 

:iagree:

[Peela]

Peela, can you tell me why you would have your son sit down to more formal learning sooner than you did - any reasons other than formation of better habits?

 

He didn't start homeschooling till he was 7, and I already felt "behind" when we started, because he was behind at school already, and then I discovered TWTM and I felt even more behind. So I spent ages playing catch up instead of enjoying those years. In retrospect, if I had homeschooled him from the beginning, I would have just read to him a lot, done a bit of formal work, and slowly formed the habit of doing school, and we would have avoided many of the issues we ended up with which were largely self esteem issues. If he didnt think he was stupid, which he learned at school, he could have grown into reading and writing at his own level, without comparing himself so much.

Any other reasons? Its all theoretical...if I had read TWTM when they were little and decided to homeschool earlier, I might have just gone that path, which involves a small amount of schoolwork when they are young, includng "content" subjects like history. The reason I have seen given are to capitalise on those early years when it is easy to memorise things, and to develop those hand muscles by practicing writing, a little a day, instead of waiting till they are mature.

Another thing I have read here and taken to heart from a couple of years ago, is that kids who have real learning difficulties often do NOT sudennly click when they are older, and need serious remediation by then. If you just wait, presuming they need time to mature, you can miss that window of opportunity when they are younger to help and develop skills. Its ahrd to know, if they are doing no formal work, if they really need help or just time.

If you read TWTM, SWB in there somewhere make s a comment about all the mothers who she has spoken to who wish they HADNT waited and put off academics till later, because it doesn't always just click. Sometimes it just takes practice.

And I have a homeschooling friend who warned me also to keep my son writing because she waited with her son and by the time he was 15 and still not writing she just couldn't do anything with him- and she has had to send him to school.

 

However...your child is 5, not yet 6? I dont think you need to panic!

[Night Elf]

I think consistency is very important. If you want to do school, you need to make it part of your weekly days and show a positive attitude even if your child doesn't. I like the idea of very short lessons of something she doesn't choose to do followed by something she loves. Maybe you can do the SWR with her and then read her a book. Take a little break to play, do 5 minutes of math and read another book. I am a firm believer in the quality over quantity. I'd rather see one word written in copywork very well then a whole page of tired writing. kwim?

 

My two youngest didn't write a lot when they were younger. We used magnet letters and scrabble tiles which they loved. Now that they are 10 and 12 years old, my dd10 loves to write and my ds12 only tolerates it. It's just their personality styles really.

[wide eyes & laughter]

Thank you for your input. THis is the way I've been "feeling" but mixed w/indecisiveness, obbviously. There's no comparing kids, so I'm thanks for your encouragement - I'll be taking your advice plus going w/my gut instinct as dd5 will be 6 next month!

 

Night Elf, I appreciate your idea (a definite reminder to me!) to keep lessons short and mix up dd's choices and non-choices.

 

Thanks so much, Ladies!!

 

Cheryl

[wide eyes & laughter]

He didn't start homeschooling till he was 7, and I already felt "behind" when we started, because he was behind at school already, and then I discovered TWTM and I felt even more behind. So I spent ages playing catch up instead of enjoying those years. In retrospect, if I had homeschooled him from the beginning, I would have just read to him a lot, done a bit of formal work, and slowly formed the habit of doing school, and we would have avoided many of the issues we ended up with which were largely self esteem issues. If he didnt think he was stupid, which he learned at school, he could have grown into reading and writing at his own level, without comparing himself so much.

Any other reasons? Its all theoretical...if I had read TWTM when they were little and decided to homeschool earlier, I might have just gone that path, which involves a small amount of schoolwork when they are young, includng "content" subjects like history. The reason I have seen given are to capitalise on those early years when it is easy to memorise things, and to develop those hand muscles by practicing writing, a little a day, instead of waiting till they are mature.

Another thing I have read here and taken to heart from a couple of years ago, is that kids who have real learning difficulties often do NOT sudennly click when they are older, and need serious remediation by then. If you just wait, presuming they need time to mature, you can miss that window of opportunity when they are younger to help and develop skills. Its ahrd to know, if they are doing no formal work, if they really need help or just time.

If you read TWTM, SWB in there somewhere make s a comment about all the mothers who she has spoken to who wish they HADNT waited and put off academics till later, because it doesn't always just click. Sometimes it just takes practice.

And I have a homeschooling friend who warned me also to keep my son writing because she waited with her son and by the time he was 15 and still not writing she just couldn't do anything with him- and she has had to send him to school.

 

However...your child is 5, not yet 6? I dont think you need to panic!

 

 

You said so many things that resonated w/me re: all 3 of my dc. Self-esteem issues are big w/dd7 - and that things don't always click as they mature (I imagine even in the absence of learning disabilities). You're right - I don't want to miss any windows of opportunity even in the formation of habits, etc. Dd5 is almost 6... but I agree still no need to panic:D:chillpill:

 

We will progress in routine and adding as we go then. Thanks again for your encouragement!

 

Cheryl