Should I be concerned? Middle school level math and STAAR tests

[Janeway]

Son has finished up Singapore Math, primary math 6A.  I have my old stand-by for supplementing. But, now, I have moved on to doing Jacob's Algebra along side SM. I generally do Keys to Algebra along side primary math level and do not start algebra until maybe 4 books in to Key to Algebra. 

SO..I gave son practice released STAAR tests. He actually did better on the 7th grade exam than the 6th grade exam. The 7th grade exam had more calculation type questions, but the 6th grade exam had questions about credit ratings (1 question), student loans and work study (1 question), distributive property, and a bunch of statistics that went beyond the basic median and mode and such (box and whisker plot, references to interquartile, etc). There were less than 40 problems on each. There were very few calculation questions. 

Son earned passing scores, but I feel a little like...maybe he is not good enough at math? Part of me thinks that STAAR test is a bit bogus. It completely de-emphasized calculating answers while expecting kids to know stuff that should be taught at a higher level. For example...it asks about 5(a X 3) + 4 and the correct answer is 5Xa + 5X3 + 4...with expectation that they know the distributive property but not expecting they know something like 5 times 3. Before you say that the question does not mean they are not expected to know it, there was very little of anything on these tests that had calculating. 

Is this just how math is? Or is the STAAR test just not a good indicator of success?

[JazzyMom]

I looked at some sample STAAR tests online to see if I thought my 9 and 11 yo’s could pass, and I was similarly surprised at the content.  

So I asked a teacher friend if kids were actually mastering this material at these ages, and she said that STAAR is all politics, and if I want to test skills or see how my kids compare to other kids to use Iowa or Stanford.

[Not_a_Number]

18 hours ago, Janeway said:

Son has finished up Singapore Math, primary math 6A.  I have my old stand-by for supplementing. But, now, I have moved on to doing Jacob's Algebra along side SM. I generally do Keys to Algebra along side primary math level and do not start algebra until maybe 4 books in to Key to Algebra. 

SO..I gave son practice released STAAR tests. He actually did better on the 7th grade exam than the 6th grade exam. The 7th grade exam had more calculation type questions, but the 6th grade exam had questions about credit ratings (1 question), student loans and work study (1 question), distributive property, and a bunch of statistics that went beyond the basic median and mode and such (box and whisker plot, references to interquartile, etc). There were less than 40 problems on each. There were very few calculation questions. 

Son earned passing scores, but I feel a little like...maybe he is not good enough at math? Part of me thinks that STAAR test is a bit bogus. It completely de-emphasized calculating answers while expecting kids to know stuff that should be taught at a higher level. For example...it asks about 5(a X 3) + 4 and the correct answer is 5Xa + 5X3 + 4...with expectation that they know the distributive property but not expecting they know something like 5 times 3. Before you say that the question does not mean they are not expected to know it, there was very little of anything on these tests that had calculating. 

Is this just how math is? Or is the STAAR test just not a good indicator of success?

Can you link the test?

By the way, you mean 5(a+3), right? Not a*3?

[Janeway]

33 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Can you link the test?

By the way, you mean 5(a+3), right? Not a*3?

Correct....

Here is a link to the test. And I compared the TEKs to Iowa Core (just was looking for a sample of a different state) and Iowa Core teaches what I would consider to be more reasonable. 

Scroll down to the 6th grade math test.  You can see released copied from various years.  https://tea.texas.gov/student-assessment/testing/staar/staar-released-test-questions

[Janeway]

37 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Can you link the test?

By the way, you mean 5(a+3), right? Not a*3?

Here is a sample of what Minnesota teaches, which I think is far better. https://math.mpls.k12.mn.us/minnesota_math_standards

[Janeway]

50 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

By the way, you mean 5(a+3), right? Not a*3?

.I think the better answer would have been (original equation was 5(a + 3) + 4  would have been 5a + 19. 

[Not_a_Number]

50 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Correct....

Here is a link to the test. And I compared the TEKs to Iowa Core (just was looking for a sample of a different state) and Iowa Core teaches what I would consider to be more reasonable. 

Scroll down to the 6th grade math test.  You can see released copied from various years.  https://tea.texas.gov/student-assessment/testing/staar/staar-released-test-questions

Thanks! Which one specifically did he do? And do you remember which questions he struggled with? 

Also, has he spent much time with variables or no? These seem quite variable-heavy. 

[Janeway]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Thanks! Which one specifically did he do? And do you remember which questions he struggled with? 

Also, has he spent much time with variables or no? These seem quite variable-heavy. 

He did not struggle with the variables. He didn't know about student loans and he did not know how long something stays on a credit rating. The rest of what he missed were statistics problems. I felt there was a blaring absence of calculation problems. When I look at the Iowa and Minnesota standards, they expect things like dividing fractions and decimals and such.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

He did not struggle with the variables. He didn't know about student loans and he did not know how long something stays on a credit rating. The rest of what he missed were statistics problems. I felt there was a blaring absence of calculation problems. When I look at the Iowa and Minnesota standards, they expect things like dividing fractions and decimals and such.

Which test was it? 

[Janeway]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Thanks! Which one specifically did he do? And do you remember which questions he struggled with? 

Also, has he spent much time with variables or no? These seem quite variable-heavy. 

Number 15, with the two data sets on the 2019 version was one he missed. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

Number 15, with the two data sets on the 2019 version was one he missed. 

I think Number 15 is a pretty reasonable question to ask. You can test what the relationship is using the table, so it really IS a question about calculations. Any idea why he had trouble with it? 

I did see a "how long does information stay on a credit report?" question in 2018 which seemed to me to have nothing to do with math whatsoever, lol. (I have no idea myself, frankly.) 

I'd personally check the questions he missed and see whether you think they are symptomatic of a gap or not. If it's all stuff that he doesn't know definitions for or something like that, I wouldn't worry. 

[Janeway]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think Number 15 is a pretty reasonable question to ask. You can test what the relationship is using the table, so it really IS a question about calculations. Any idea why he had trouble with it? 

I did see a "how long does information stay on a credit report?" question in 2018 which seemed to me to have nothing to do with math whatsoever, lol. (I have no idea myself, frankly.) 

I'd personally check the questions he missed and see whether you think they are symptomatic of a gap or not. If it's all stuff that he doesn't know definitions for or something like that, I wouldn't worry. 

It was vocabulary. He could not answer that one because he did not know what the words meant in the answers. We did the 2018 too.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Janeway

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Janeway said:

It was vocabulary. He could not answer that one because he did not know what the words meant in the answers. We did the 2018 too.

But it doesn't only give verbal descriptions. It also explains what it means by additive and multiplicative. Would he be able to do it if you removed those words and just checked the descriptions? 

[Janeway]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

But it doesn't only give verbal descriptions. It also explains what it means by additive and multiplicative. Would he be able to do it if you removed those words and just checked the descriptions? 

I actually threw away the test so I am guessing at what he missed. But here is my issue. I am sending him to an online school this fall. And I have to pick between accelerated math 7 or accelerated math 6. They placed him in 7th grade and he passed the STAAR tests for it. BUT, when I printed off the test from this website, he missed a good portion, just barely passing, barely making meets expectations. But when I print off any other pre-algebra placement exam, specifically the Art of Problem Solving one, he passes-with 100% actually, saying he is ready for prealgebra. So now I have no clue what to think. And when I speak to the online school, they just kind of run me in circles and I honestly feel tested and worried I will say the wrong thing. I think it would be best to figure out where he needs to be and then advocate to place him accordingly. What do you think?

I know he got tripped up on a problem referencing intraquartile. He also got tripped up on the financial problems. He never was tripped up on anything related to calculations, it was always vocabulary.

 

edited to add: accelerated math 6 is equal to 6 plus half of 7th grade math. accelerated math 7 is equal to the other half of math 7 and all of math 8 with math 8 being prealgebra.  

 

Edited to add again: I still have more than a month to review or otherwise work ahead on math. But he wants to be an engineer and I am sure he will be. I want him very solid on math, not struggling. But I also don't want him to spend a year sitting idle.

 

edited to add again again: I really appreciate your help and look forward to your advice!

Edited July 1, 2021 by Janeway

[Not_a_Number]

46 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I actually threw away the test so I am guessing at what he missed. But here is my issue. I am sending him to an online school this fall. And I have to pick between accelerated math 7 or accelerated math 6. They placed him in 7th grade and he passed the STAAR tests for it. BUT, when I printed off the test from this website, he missed a good portion, just barely passing, barely making meets expectations. But when I print off any other pre-algebra placement exam, specifically the Art of Problem Solving one, he passes-with 100% actually, saying he is ready for prealgebra. So now I have no clue what to think. And when I speak to the online school, they just kind of run me in circles and I honestly feel tested and worried I will say the wrong thing. I think it would be best to figure out where he needs to be and then advocate to place him accordingly. What do you think?

I know he got tripped up on a problem referencing intraquartile. He also got tripped up on the financial problems. He never was tripped up on anything related to calculations, it was always vocabulary.

If he's missing vocabulary-based questions and he does well on the AoPS ones, then I really wouldn't worry 🙂 . The only thing I'd say is that I'd want to see what he's missing and why, just in case there are some gaps. But if the gaps are mostly things like "How long does something stay on a credit report?" then I'd pay zero attention. 

I have a kid who would ABSOLUTELY miss questions she could otherwise do if the words scared her by looking unfamiliar, so I understand why he might have missed them! 

[Janeway]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

If he's missing vocabulary-based questions and he does well on the AoPS ones, then I really wouldn't worry 🙂 . The only thing I'd say is that I'd want to see what he's missing and why, just in case there are some gaps. But if the gaps are mostly things like "How long does something stay on a credit report?" then I'd pay zero attention. 

I have a kid who would ABSOLUTELY miss questions she could otherwise do if the words scared her by looking unfamiliar, so I understand why he might have missed them! 

The way the STAAR test was, I have worried that the school will be a disaster and maybe I should consider continuing to homeschool him. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Janeway said:

The way the STAAR test was, I have worried that the school will be a disaster and maybe I should consider continuing to homeschool him. 

I doubt these tests have much to do with what's going in the classroom. At least, I wouldn't give up due to this test. 

[EKS]

If you want your son to do well on the STARR test, you need to use a text/program that is aligned with it.  Jacobs and the Keys certainly are not (both are from the 70s, I believe), and I suspect that Singapore isn't either.

If he is going to be doing public school, I'd place him where the school thinks he should be and then offer support at home for any gaps.  

[Ellie]

On 6/30/2021 at 3:19 PM, Janeway said:

Son has finished up Singapore Math, primary math 6A.  I have my old stand-by for supplementing. But, now, I have moved on to doing Jacob's Algebra along side SM. I generally do Keys to Algebra along side primary math level and do not start algebra until maybe 4 books in to Key to Algebra. 

SO..I gave son practice released STAAR tests. He actually did better on the 7th grade exam than the 6th grade exam. The 7th grade exam had more calculation type questions, but the 6th grade exam had questions about credit ratings (1 question), student loans and work study (1 question), distributive property, and a bunch of statistics that went beyond the basic median and mode and such (box and whisker plot, references to interquartile, etc). There were less than 40 problems on each. There were very few calculation questions. 

Son earned passing scores, but I feel a little like...maybe he is not good enough at math? Part of me thinks that STAAR test is a bit bogus. It completely de-emphasized calculating answers while expecting kids to know stuff that should be taught at a higher level. For example...it asks about 5(a X 3) + 4 and the correct answer is 5Xa + 5X3 + 4...with expectation that they know the distributive property but not expecting they know something like 5 times 3. Before you say that the question does not mean they are not expected to know it, there was very little of anything on these tests that had calculating. 

Is this just how math is? Or is the STAAR test just not a good indicator of success?

Why would you do that? STAAR is a badly written test. Teachers and administrators complain about it every.single.year.

If you feel the need to do a standardized test (and why would you?) choose a nationally normed test like the CTBS or the Iowa Basic or the Stanford.

[Janeway]

4 hours ago, Ellie said:

Why would you do that? STAAR is a badly written test. Teachers and administrators complain about it every.single.year.

If you feel the need to do a standardized test (and why would you?) choose a nationally normed test like the CTBS or the Iowa Basic or the Stanford.

Because I am feeling less able to do upper grades, I was planning to send my middle child to online public school next year. He has a friend who goes there and his friend really likes it. They have a robotics club and such that my son wants to do. but my son got placed in a higher grade level than what I had been intending for him to be. He took the staar  test to go into the older grade and passed. But he didn’t get high scores, he got passing scores. Prior to taking with the school district, I printed off 6th and 7th grade math tests, old released versions. He had passing scores there but barely.  It makes me concerned about if I should push for him to be down a grade level or maybe even just give up on the public school altogether. I know I would never allow him to go to our local schools.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Janeway

[Shoeless]

Put him in the 7th grade class. He tested into that level and is already doing Jacobs algebra. 

Forget about what the STAAR test says.  Teachers have been griping about that test for years.  Why would a 6th grader know about credit ratings and reports?! That sounds like a politician's idea to include "really world financial literacy", which is nice, but would be better placed in a high school course and not general 6th grade math. 

Don't make a decision based on the results of one poorly written test.  

[kirstenhill]

It really sounds like a case of specific things being taught to students who will be taking the test, so I wouldn't read a lot into the 6th grade results.  I'm sure all the 6th grade teachers cover that financial literacy material to prepare for the test, then it is never revisited. 

I'm generally amazed at how much success on a standardized math test can hinge on vocabulary in general.  We are required to test annually in our state.  My youngest is dyslexic and remembering which math term belongs to which concept is a challenge for him.  (For example - he knows that parallel and perpendicular refer to the relationship of lines, and has a hard time remembering which term is for meeting at a 90 degree angle, which term is for lines that will never intersect).  I bought on TpT a vocabulary review packet specific to the test he was taking, and we spent maybe a total of an hour over the course of a few days before the test reviewing math vocabulary. Some was just review of things we hadn't talked about in months, and some was terminology the test uses that is different that what he was taught in our math program.   I watched him take the test and there were many, many problems he would have been likely to answer incorrectly (or it would have been a 50/50 guess) had we not done that vocab review. 

[Janeway]

6 hours ago, kirstenhill said:

It really sounds like a case of specific things being taught to students who will be taking the test, so I wouldn't read a lot into the 6th grade results.  I'm sure all the 6th grade teachers cover that financial literacy material to prepare for the test, then it is never revisited. 

I'm generally amazed at how much success on a standardized math test can hinge on vocabulary in general.  We are required to test annually in our state.  My youngest is dyslexic and remembering which math term belongs to which concept is a challenge for him.  (For example - he knows that parallel and perpendicular refer to the relationship of lines, and has a hard time remembering which term is for meeting at a 90 degree angle, which term is for lines that will never intersect).  I bought on TpT a vocabulary review packet specific to the test he was taking, and we spent maybe a total of an hour over the course of a few days before the test reviewing math vocabulary. Some was just review of things we hadn't talked about in months, and some was terminology the test uses that is different that what he was taught in our math program.   I watched him take the test and there were many, many problems he would have been likely to answer incorrectly (or it would have been a 50/50 guess) had we not done that vocab review. 

I always remembered parallel by thinking how the two "L's" in the word are parallel....just see the word and the letters as the thing they describe. I know that does not help on everything, but this one thing stood out to me so thought I would help with that little tidbit.