Learning to argue

[Jackie]

My daughter wants to learn how to create better arguments. We’ve been working on some persuasive writing and she has enjoyed it, and wants to improve. She is about to turn 11, has strong reading skills, and is generally resistant to writing and this will go down best if it focuses on argument building and not so much on the writing itself.

I was thinking about building an English class for next year based on the theme of persuasion - literature, propaganda, writing exercises, and how to build the most effective arguments. Not afraid of controversial topics as she already follows at least some news and we are a fairly open family. Suggestions for resources?

[jrichstad]

They Say/ I Say: The Moves That Matter in Academic Writing is an excellent resource, although it may be a bit advanced--I haven't looked at it in a long time. If you think your DD isn't quite ready to use it directly, you might find it helpful for guiding her.

[Not_a_Number]

When you say she wants to improve... what does she want to do better? Does she have a sense for what skills she needs to work on? 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Thank You for Arguing is meaty yet accessible for that age. It’s frequently used in AP English Language classes, but is written conversationally.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Alte Veste Academy

[Jackie]

49 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

When you say she wants to improve... what does she want to do better? Does she have a sense for what skills she needs to work on? 

Being more persuasive?

She tends not to really give much credit to the other side of an argument, which makes it hard for her to argue against or carefully consider issues. She is very “from the gut” in her opinions, though she absolutely understands the necessity of research. For example, I mentioned today that debate teams usually have topics to research, but they are assigned a pro/con side, and she was horrified at the idea that she would truly have to vigorously argue a side she didn’t believe in. 

Also, she would lie to learn how to be more . . . Sneaky? . . . In her approach to arguing. Here, I am thinking along the lines of how books like The Hate U Give or A Long Walk to Water or A Little Piece of Ground are obviously written to share a certain experience and engage the readers and persuade them to a place of understanding but don’t sit there and lay out research.

[SoCal_Bear]

FWIW, for us it was helpful to start with being able to recognize and identify logical fallacies. While I know that the authors are Christians, I have seen secular WTMers comment that they have been able to use Fallacy Detective and Thanking Toolbox. Some have been able to use Art of Argument as well which is published by Classical Academic Press. It's easy enough to find the posts about what the secular WTM'ers thought about all of these.

[Clarita]

I watched Chris Voss's Masterclass on "The Art of Negotiations". I found him to be quite enlightening on how to be persuasive - very different than how I had viewed making arguments and negotiations. He wrote a book with the same title; which I think has the same content in book form. It is coming from a face-to-face point of view instead of written so some techniques may not be applicable to written work.

[Dmmetler]

High school debate was helpful to me, so you might want to look for online classes or other options focused on that, too. 

 

[Jackie]

Thanks all! She is working through the book Twisting Arms now. I have They Say/I Say on the shelf but am a little hesitant to use it because she is often resistant to formulaic approaches; I can probably work with it, though, and it’s about the right level. Thank You for Arguing, The Art of Persuasion and learning about logical fallacies are all ideas we can use. I talked to her about debate, but I can’t find anything near me open to homeschoolers; she’s kinda burnt out on everything being online right now. It’s definitely something to keep in mind for the future.

[Jackie]

Following up on this, anyone have ideas for literature to read for an English class based around the topic of persuasion? She is a very strong reader, but still has middle school interests. Fiction and nonfiction ideas welcome!