My cross post disappeared! I have a follow up question (Update in first post)

[rainbird2]

Do cross posts just disappear??  Someone replied to my thread, and I wanted to respond, but  couldn't yesterday.  The thread is still in the General Forum, but the high school replies were really helpful, too.  How do I find out where it went??

Someone asked if my high schooler had any of the same experiences in their other classes, and the answer is No.  So far, high schooler has really liked the classes, and there have been no problems with convoluted input.  The Latin classes have been especially excellent.  Problems did not arise until this year.

Someone else brought to my attention that if my high schooler applies to a private school, and that school asks for transcripts, then this may be a problem.  This is exactly what is happening...high schooler applied to a competitive school for next year.  Should student stay in class because of the transcript??  High schooler has a good chance of getting into the competitive school, so I want to be careful with how we proceed. 

Off to find my original post. 

[mjbucks1]

1 hour ago, rainbird2 said:

Someone else brought to my attention that if my high schooler applies to a private school, and that school asks for transcripts, then this may be a problem.  This is exactly what is happening...high schooler applied to a competitive school for next year.  Should student stay in class because of the transcript??  High schooler has a good chance of getting into the competitive school, so I want to be careful with how we proceed. 

I am not sure if you mean your child is applying to a competitive high school or a competitive college, and I am not sure it matters.  You need to think about if you will need to provide the transcript from the online school.  Providing the actual transcript from the online school MAY be required (one of the selective colleges my ds applied to REQUIRED transcripts from all online providers). 

Yes, the course is listed on your homeschool transcript and I suppose that technically you do not have to give details that this was an online course, especially if you finish course at home.  But since your child has taken other courses from the provider and you will likely need/want to provide a transcript for those classes, the biology class will likely be on the transcript.    

I would contact the online provider to see how the course would be listed.  Would it be listed as an incomplete or as a withdraw?  Will you have the chance to explain to the college/selective school WHY your child withdrew from the course?

My personal opinion on this is that unless you are unhappy with the quality of the course, I would have your student email the teacher and explain his/her concerns about the class.  You should also email the teacher and the administration.  My concern is that your child will encounter MANY views he/she does not agree with throughout their high school, college, and adult years.  Learning how to respectfully interact and have a disagreement with teachers, professors, and bosses is a skill they will need to cultivate the rest of their life.  Now is the time to work on this skill while they have your guidance.  In college especially, your child will not be able to withdraw from a class every time something is said that they do not agree with.  They are likely to have several professors that veer off topic.  Our families have used these times as opportunities to discuss the topic and research more about it and look at different points of view. 

I have a BA in biology/biochemistry and my masters in physical therapy, working in a cancer research lab along the way.  I personally do not think the virus was being manipulated as a form of biological warfare.  There is still a question about whether this virus could have accidentally escaped from a lab (a recent NBC article stated that while the US government does not think it likely, they have not been able to rule out the possibility).  Part of good science is keeping an open mind and not jumping to conclusions too quickly without sound evidence.  Most scientists do not believe this virus was manipulated in the lab, so I have no idea where this teacher is getting his/her information.  But this is a great opportunity for your child to do research about the subject.

 

[desertflower]

3 hours ago, rainbird2 said:

Do cross posts just disappear??  Someone replied to my thread, and I wanted to respond, but  couldn't yesterday.  The thread is still in the General Forum, but the high school replies were really helpful, too.  How do I find out where it went??

Someone asked if my high schooler had any of the same experiences in their other classes, and the answer is No.  So far, high schooler has really liked the classes, and there have been no problems with convoluted input.  The Latin classes have been especially excellent.  Problems did not arise until this year.

Someone else brought to my attention that if my high schooler applies to a private school, and that school asks for transcripts, then this may be a problem.  This is exactly what is happening...high schooler applied to a competitive school for next year.  Should student stay in class because of the transcript??  High schooler has a good chance of getting into the competitive school, so I want to be careful with how we proceed. 

Off to find my original post. 

Hello rainbird2,

Generally, no cross posts do not just disappear.  The thread was reported and we are looking into the report.  So I hid the thread.  I had to prepare for church services / class, so I didn't have time to look for your other thread on the same topic. 

I did give a reason for hiding the post.  I guess reasons are not usually displayed. 

[Lori D.]

44 minutes ago, mjbucks1 said:

...(one of the selective colleges my ds applied to REQUIRED transcripts from all online providers). 

That was for individual courses from online providers?? Not for all online-school? I've never heard of a college requiring that before. They MUST be very selective! (lol) 😄 
 

44 minutes ago, mjbucks1 said:

I am not sure if you mean your child is applying to a competitive high school or a competitive college, and I am not sure it matters.  You need to think about if you will need to provide the transcript from the online school.  Providing the actual transcript from the online school MAY be required (one of the selective colleges my ds applied to REQUIRED transcripts from all online providers). 

Yes, the course is listed on your homeschool transcript and I suppose that technically you do not have to give details that this was an online course, especially if you finish course at home.  But since your child has taken other courses from the provider and you will likely need/want to provide a transcript for those classes, the biology class will likely be on the transcript.    

My understanding is that NOT all online providers of individual courses provide *transcripts*... they often just provide an email to the parent with final grade (NOT a formal transcript). I've also seen some people mention needing to take a screen shot, as nothing was sent at the end of the course...

And, prior to @mjbucks1's experience above, I've not seen anyone needing to provide *transcripts* to the college EXCEPT for the transcripts from community colleges/universities where dual enrollment happen, AND the transcript from a brick & mortar public/private school that a student attended for some/all of high school AND where the high school was not just providing 1-2 classes a semester to the homeschooling family, but was the administrating agent.

In those cases, the transcript was required from the college or high school because the  if the student was *registered* in a school that was the administrator -- they, instead of the parent, were the overseeing/administrating agency, overseeing the records of the student through the school's registrar...

JMO! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Lori D.

[rainbird2]

12 minutes ago, desertflower said:

Hello rainbird2,

Generally, no cross posts do not just disappear.  The thread was reported and we are looking into the report.  So I hid the thread.  I had to prepare for church services / class, so I didn't have time to look for your other thread on the same topic. 

I did give a reason for hiding the post.  I guess reasons are not usually displayed. 

Thanks for letting me know.  I would like to know the reason it was reported.  I'd like to keep the thread going, if possible, because I'm learning quite a bit on how to handle this situation.  I'm willing to edit whatever is needed so I can continue to ask questions.  Newbie to homeschooling high school, and I have lots to learn.

Can we discuss privately somehow??

[desertflower]

2 minutes ago, rainbird2 said:

Thanks for letting me know.  I would like to know the reason it was reported.  I'd like to keep the thread going, if possible, because I'm learning quite a bit on how to handle this situation.  I'm willing to edit whatever is needed so I can continue to ask questions.  Newbie to homeschooling high school, and I have lots to learn.

Can we discuss privately somehow??

Hello,

Perhaps if one states the situation as a hypothetical situation, then it would probably not draw too much attention. 

You can always personal message people as well.  The email is on the top right corner.  Just type in their username. 

Hopes this helps. 

[rainbird2]

52 minutes ago, mjbucks1 said:

I am not sure if you mean your child is applying to a competitive high school or a competitive college, and I am not sure it matters.  You need to think about if you will need to provide the transcript from the online school.  Providing the actual transcript from the online school MAY be required (one of the selective colleges my ds applied to REQUIRED transcripts from all online providers). 

Yes, the course is listed on your homeschool transcript and I suppose that technically you do not have to give details that this was an online course, especially if you finish course at home.  But since your child has taken other courses from the provider and you will likely need/want to provide a transcript for those classes, the biology class will likely be on the transcript.    

I would contact the online provider to see how the course would be listed.  Would it be listed as an incomplete or as a withdraw?  Will you have the chance to explain to the college/selective school WHY your child withdrew from the course?

My personal opinion on this is that unless you are unhappy with the quality of the course, I would have your student email the teacher and explain his/her concerns about the class.  You should also email the teacher and the administration.  My concern is that your child will encounter MANY views he/she does not agree with throughout their high school, college, and adult years.  Learning how to respectfully interact and have a disagreement with teachers, professors, and bosses is a skill they will need to cultivate the rest of their life.  Now is the time to work on this skill while they have your guidance.  In college especially, your child will not be able to withdraw from a class every time something is said that they do not agree with.  They are likely to have several professors that veer off topic.  Our families have used these times as opportunities to discuss the topic and research more about it and look at different points of view. 

I have a BA in biology/biochemistry and my masters in physical therapy, working in a cancer research lab along the way.  I personally do not think the virus was being manipulated as a form of biological warfare.  There is still a question about whether this virus could have accidentally escaped from a lab (a recent NBC article stated that while the US government does not think it likely, they have not been able to rule out the possibility).  Part of good science is keeping an open mind and not jumping to conclusions too quickly without sound evidence.  Most scientists do not believe this virus was manipulated in the lab, so I have no idea where this teacher is getting his/her information.  But this is a great opportunity for your child to do research about the subject.

 

 

mjbucks1, thank you so much for your reply.  It was really helpful.  My high schooler applied to a competitive high school, and I am pretty sure the school will ask for final transcripts.  If they do ask for final transcripts, I need to know what will be sent to them from my high schooler's online classes and if that will be a problem if student withdraws from the class.  I'm also trying to figure out if high schooler should drop out of a class because of outside influences, or if high schooler should learn to endure and dialogue, and if high schooler is mature enough to decide on their own if they should withdraw or stay....there's so much going on in this situation and my head is spinning.  

Anyway, thanks...I appreciate the advice.  

[Farrar]

Legally speaking, in many states, you're still the school of record according to the state unless you're using an accredited provider that they specifically list as approved. For college this wouldn't be an issue. You make the transcript if you're an independent homeschooler. The whole thing about accreditation is that it's a bit of a sham in some cases. You have to look at who is doing the accrediting - after all, it's not like it's a government designation. Anyone can start an accrediting agency so some are fly by night rubber stamps and others are meaningful certifications of certain things - usually primarily that the school is functioning within the law, including financially and the practices they have reflect the practices they say they have (not that they're "better" from an educational standpoint necessarily, but that they do what they say they do).

[mjbucks1]

11 minutes ago, Farrar said:

For college this wouldn't be an issue.

It can be an issue if the college requests transcripts for all online courses.  One of the highly selective schools my ds applied to required this, as well as very detailed course descriptions, and SAT II subject tests (3).  Of course, one can decide if they are going to jump through all of these extra hoops.  We decided to and ds did get accepted, although he chose not to attend.  I really think it is best to prepare for a "worst case" scenario.  

[Farrar]

4 minutes ago, mjbucks1 said:

It can be an issue if the college requests transcripts for all online courses.  One of the highly selective schools my ds applied to required this, as well as very detailed course descriptions, and SAT II subject tests (3).  Of course, one can decide if they are going to jump through all of these extra hoops.  We decided to and ds did get accepted, although he chose not to attend.  I really think it is best to prepare for a "worst case" scenario.  

The thing is, so many places don't provide transcripts. There's a certain provider who is accredited who will not provide transcripts if you take a course there but aren't an enrolled diploma track student. Unaccredited places won't be asked. If you don't finish the course because you are unhappy with it as a product and you were never an enrolled student, I don't know how they'd ever know. As far as I'm concerned, if you do part of a course, are unhappy with the instruction and leave, finish the course and award the credit yourself at home, then it's your detailed course description that matters.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Farrar

[mjbucks1]

45 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

That was for individual courses from online providers?? Not for all online-school? I've never heard of a college requiring that before. They MUST be very selective! (lol) 😄 

Yes, it was for individual courses and it was a very selective school (acceptance rate 15%).  They also required a very detailed course description for all courses taken in high school, and preferred 3 SAT II subject tests (even though ds had 10 AP classes!)  Since most school have done away with SAT II subject test requirement, this school may have done that as well.  Ds did get in, but did not attend.  For some, all of those extra requirements would have been enough to deter one from applying.  This was back in 2015, so things may have changed, but I always think it is best to plan for the worst and hope for the best!

[mjbucks1]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

The thing is, so many places don't provide transcripts. There's a certain provider who is accredited who will not provide transcripts if you take a course there but aren't an enrolled diploma track student. Unaccredited places won't be asked. If you don't finish the course because you are unhappy with it as a product and you were never an enrolled student, I don't know how they'd ever know. As far as I'm concerned, if you do part of a course, are unhappy with the instruction and leave, finish the course and award the credit yourself at home, then it's your detailed course description that matters.

You are correct, some online providers do not provide transcripts, and it that case the school probably would have been ok with an email from the teacher stating the student's grades. 

I am confused when you say "unaccredited places won't be asked."  It is your responsibility when you are applying to colleges/private schools to provide the documentation they are requesting from these online providers.  Some will send it directly to the school, some will send it to you and you pass it along to the college/private school.  

As far as finishing a course at home, a college might not know if a course was finished at home but I think another person posted that MPOA does provide transcripts and all classes show up on the transcript.  This poster has said they have taken several classes from this provider, and if the school they are applying to asks for transcripts, the biology class will likely show up.  Now, as I stated above, this may not be a problem if the parent is allowed to explain why their child was disenrolled from the class.  But it also may cause the school to question how conflict is handled in their family as well and would the family be a good fit for their school.  So I think for THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, it is prudent for the OP to think of the possible consequences.

I should be clear.  I have had two children go through the college admission process.  One applied to a very selective college (15% admit rate) and was admitted.  We had to jump through more hoops for that college.  Our dd applied to only selective schools, and none required transcripts from any online schools (except for the DE classes she took).  I will admit that everyone has different experiences, as my two children had different experiences from each other when applying to colleges.  The OP is talking about a selective high school, but she does feel that she will be asked for transcripts for the classes her child has taken online (or at least that it is a possibility).        

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by mjbucks1

[mjbucks1]

59 minutes ago, rainbird2 said:

mjbucks1, thank you so much for your reply. 

You are so welcome!  I know this is a difficult situation to navigate.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, mjbucks1 said:

I am confused when you say "unaccredited places won't be asked."  It is your responsibility when you are applying to colleges/private schools to provide the documentation they are requesting from these online providers.  Some will send it directly to the school, some will send it to you and you pass it along to the college/private school.  

 

I've never seen a college ask for anything from an unaccredited online provider other than sometimes credentials - like was the teacher qualified with a degree sort of thing. Doesn't mean it couldn't ever happen, but detailed course descriptions are going to be plenty in the vast majority of cases. I think homeschoolers get too hung up on our providers, honestly, and which ones are good or not. Like, we all know which classes are rigorous and... less so. But other than something like CTY or maybe UC Scout or something if you're in California, colleges don't know these names that we're all pretty familiar with. I'd be beyond shocked if the OP got asked for some sort of official documentation from the provider she's discussing when her kid withdrew purposefully from the course while in good standing. If she wants to cover her bases, I'd print/screenshot any current grades as well as a timestamped version of the email exchange to make it clear why she withdrew from the class.

Now, whether a high school will even ask... that's a bit of an unknown. I've worked in private school and we did ask homeschoolers applying for all kinds of things, in fact, we asked other families for all kinds of things, sometimes a bit randomly based on the situation - but we were not a competitive school. It was more evaluative to make sure the student could succeed with us and it was a good fit. When I've overseen applications for folks applying to competitive privates, it's been things like Stanford OHS. They have no asked for this sort of thing. Course descriptions are plenty.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Farrar

[Lori D.]

18 hours ago, mjbucks1 said:

It can be an issue if the college requests transcripts for all online courses.  One of the highly selective schools my ds applied to required this, as well as very detailed course descriptions, and SAT II subject tests (3).  Of course, one can decide if they are going to jump through all of these extra hoops.  We decided to and ds did get accepted, although he chose not to attend.  I really think it is best to prepare for a "worst case" scenario.  

Original poster might first work with the course provider, withdrawing from the class, which should place an official "W" (for "withdraw") on the transcript, rather than a grade. It is still early enough in the semester, and that is standard policy for colleges, so I would think it would also be standard for high school online providers as well. (There would be no money returned, but there would also be no "F" on the transcript.)

And MANY dual enrollment students end up withdrawing from a dual-enrolled college class for a wide variety of classes, so that admission offices don't bat an eye at it. On the off-chance that the admission office presses for a reason, then be up front: "We withdrew due to being unhappy with the way in which the teacher was running the class. We completed the course at home using xyz materials, with quizzes and tests resulting in a final grade of ____."   **

Be honest, be concise, and to the point, and move on to highlight the great points about your student's academics and activities.


** = ETA: And as @Farrar suggested up-thread, also having taken a screen shot showing the student's good standing will also help verify, if need be, that you weren't "just trying to avoid a bad grade."

Edited February 22, 2021 by Lori D.

[BookwormTo2]

18 hours ago, Farrar said:

The thing is, so many places don't provide transcripts. There's a certain provider who is accredited who will not provide transcripts if you take a course there but aren't an enrolled diploma track student. Unaccredited places won't be asked. If you don't finish the course because you are unhappy with it as a product and you were never an enrolled student, I don't know how they'd ever know. As far as I'm concerned, if you do part of a course, are unhappy with the instruction and leave, finish the course and award the credit yourself at home, then it's your detailed course description that matters.

Thank you so much for posting this point! Because I saw this, I asked Veritas about a transcript for 1-2 online classes we are considering, and the answer is they don't mail out transcripts for non-diploma track students. Instead they will email you or the college a grade report, which they say is accredited. For those wanting a transcript of an online class from a regionally accredited provider -- check first on the transcript policy of the provider before enrolling, if it is vital to have a transcript mailed.

[TheAttachedMama]

22 hours ago, rainbird2 said:

 

Someone else brought to my attention that if my high schooler applies to a private school, and that school asks for transcripts, then this may be a problem.  This is exactly what is happening...high schooler applied to a competitive school for next year.  Should student stay in class because of the transcript??  High schooler has a good chance of getting into the competitive school, so I want to be careful with how we proceed. 

Off to find my original post. 

There is a thread on the MP forums where this is discussed.  I will see if I can find it.  It is several years old....

 A family there also had a college asking for official transcripts for outside classes.     The director, whose name was Mr. Piland (they have since changed directors) replied that they often get asked for transcripts.  (So it does happen.). He said that if they provide transcripts to any colleges or parents, all classes taken at MPOA and all grades would be listed.    However, the policy may have changed since then.  It is worth asking them directly.  FYI-- I have had a VERY hard time getting MPOA to respond to emails or forum posts.  So it may take a phone call.

So like mjbucks1 said above, colleges (or other summer camps, competitive private schools, etc.) do sometimes request transcripts from online class providers.   I took a class on putting together homeschool records from Lee Binz, who works as a consultant in this area.  In that class, she says that she knows of colleges who have asked for all sorts of strange things (in addition to course descriptions) such as "a graded writing sample" and "math homework or exam in the student's handwriting".   Like others have pointed out, you are under no obligation to jump through these hoops.   But they are also under no obligation to admit you.  Right?    

 I also like her very level headed argument about using this as a learning experience.  What a wonderful point!   This will not be the first or last time your child will have to defend their viewpoint.  This can be a great lesson on how to do that in an assertive yet respectful manner.  It is also a great opportunity for the student to research how this teacher's statements tie into current events.   

 

[BookwormTo2]

OP, this is a very good question. I found that when DD applied to universities for admission for Fall 2020, the more competitive universities wanted a printout of the grade reports for her regionally accredited online classes (ended up being 15 pages front and back for Russian 1-2 and printout of dual enrollment class - grade in progress at time of application and one completed previous to application) and then once she committed to a certain competitive public university, they wanted the official transcripts from all online classes that were regionally accredited mailed to them from the provider or accrediting body. They didn't care about transcripts from unaccredited providers and considered me the instructor of record for those classes. It ended up that she had a very eclectic combo of online classes from various online providers, most of which were unaccredited. That was good as it cut down on paperwork for me, and while she did a DE Stats class online via LUOA and another 2 DE classes locally, and one AP online class, those and the Russian 1-2 classes were the only classes I had to get transcripts sent for, which lightened my workload. I actually did have to provide a graded writing sample, a scanned simple transcript I created in Excel, and a copy of the ACT report so that DD could get admitted to the local DE program at the nearby university. I didn't have to provide a graded writing sample when she applied for regular freshman admission to college, though she certainly had to write quite a few short answers and an essay or two when applying.

However, for those who take quite a few classes from one or more online providers that are regionally accredited, it is tricky if a student withdraws from a class depending on the provider. I know some providers will put a W on the transcript unless the student withdraws before the drop/add deadline, while other providers don't put the class on the transcript unless the student completes it, and if the students withdraws it is as if they never took the class there.

[rainbird2]

UPDATE:  A student pointed out to teacher that statements about virus origins were not a fact.  Teacher was going through the chat after class, caught that, and emailed the student to let them know that student was absolutely right.  Told student thank you for saying that, and that teacher misspoke.  Teacher stated again that it was not fact.  Said a better way to say it is to keep it as a theory, it has the potential to be a man made virus, but not proven.  (That would be a conspiracy theory, but we'll leave it alone and have that understanding in our home.) Teacher looked up WHO and read their statements and shared with the class.  Teacher concluded with asking the students to keep the dialogue open with teacher...apologized for what was said about Chinese government, too. 

This is the gist of what was shared with the class.  I won't quote completely because I don't want the thread to be deleted again!  High schooler and I thought that teacher did a good job of clarifying and opening up conversation with students.

Takeaways from this experience:

I learned more than I could possibly imagine about high school transcripts (Thank you!), and I feel confident in how to keep records, especially if high schooler needs to drop a class.

I learned that as much as I would like to shield my child from negative influences in the world, I have to stop helicoptering and let them navigate the good and the not so good.  I have to be thankful that high schooler will have these experiences under my roof for a few more years.  I'm pretty sure that not all of high schooler's college classes will meet my standards, and they are going to have to work through these things on their own.  I just want to protect them, that's all...parenting just gets harder and harder...

I would like to find a way to communicate with some of the online Christian schools and plead with them to not put themselves in a narrow box that shuts out the many progressive Christians out there.  I see it happening, and it's worrisome to me.  This is a complicated one, and probably best for another thread.  I just don't want people to be turned away, including Christians, because a school becomes exclusive.  I know this isn't reality, and schools have their own positions and education goals, and it's been this way forever.  I just don't want polarization to take over the homeschool world, too.

Anyway...to all who read my previous thread, issue has been resolved.  Teacher has apologized for the misleading information and has opened up dialogue with students.  My high schooler has written an email to thank teacher for clarifying and for reaching out.  High schooler will stay in class and learn to dialogue in uncomfortable situations.  I will learn to not helicopter.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by rainbird2
Punctuation