classical conversations - does anyone use this without the class?

[St. Theophan Academy]

I am just curious if anyone gets the manual and then uses it as a guide without being a part of one of the weekly classes. If so, how do you like it, and how would you compare it to programs like TOG or MFW?

[trisharog]

Bump... I would love to know this as well

[MerryAtHope]

I've never done the class, but I did see a friend's manual for the K-3rd grade age. I was pretty non-plussed. All of the "teaching" must be in the class, there's not much to the guide. Nothing compared to TOG, MFW, Sonlight, etc...

 

Merry :-)

[Linda...inOwasso]

We did Classical Conversations last year at home, ALONE, and this year we're doing it with a fabulous CC community.

 

You absolutely can just buy the guide, cd, and Veritas Press cards and do the memory work on your own. But... WOW, is that pure torture! Only half-kidding.... the sheer quantity of memory work involved with CC is overwhelming and for me, it is well worth the $$ and time to join a CC community.

 

There's nothing inherently difficult about *what* you memorize at the foundations level (K-6th), but maintaining your discipline and motivation is so much easier in a group setting. We did several things to try to make it more palatable last year such as weekly recitations for family, friends, neighbors, etc., rewards, recognition, et. al.

 

However, nothing we came up with has come close to the power of peer pressure! Knowing their classmates have memorized the material and they'll be expected to recite it for their tutor each week is amazingly effective!

 

I've never used TOG or MFW, so I can't compare, but CC is not a complete curriculum. It's a hard-core memory program that provides you with a remarkable tool for filling the brain with facts during the grammar stage. So, it's also imperative for you to be a firm believer in route memorization or you'll burn out before you even get started.

 

I've seen unbelievable results in my dc, but I don't think I could do it if I had to go it alone. Best of luck to you with your decision!

Edited December 4, 2008 by Linda...inOwasso

[angela in ohio]

I am a CC director in Ohio.

 

I have a friend who is doing it at home. I think she is on week 3 or so. Like Linda said, the peer pressure and the discipline are very helpful.

 

It wouldn't compare to TOG or MFW. CC is a totally different type of program.

[Melenie]

I agree with PP's. The CC manual is not a complete curriculum. For me the appeal is in doing it in a group.

[Staci in FL]

We did CC in a class last year and this year we do it at home. After tutoring in a class as a substitute and watching the classes each week, I realized that it would be MORE than do-able for me to do the work at home for less time and money. CC is primarily memory work from age 4 to grade 6 (with the exception of the Essentials class). As others have said, it cannot be compared to Tapestry of Grace or My Father's World. It is not, by any means, a complete curriculum. It is MEMORY WORK. It think the memory work is outstanding. We do it every morning during breakfast. It takes about 20 minutes. Then the kids do the Power Point presentation (which is fabulous) later in the day. I absolutely love doing it at home. I hated going to the class. I have four young children, and being there all day sucked the life out of me. Plus, it took an entire day out of our educational week for MEMORY WORK, which bothered me to no end. My oldest is in fourth grade and I didn't think that four day a week school week was enough. If I only had a first grader or even a second grader I'd probably feel a little differently. You have to figure out if you are able to do it on your own at home and what your goals for your childrens' education are before you make the decision to do it at home.

 

Hope that helps!

Staci

[mom2abcd]

Then the kids do the Power Point presentation (which is fabulous) later in the day.

Staci

 

The Power Point presentation is on the Memory Work Resource CD, correct? How do you get to it? All I can open is the Geogrpahy Notebook and the Memory Master Notebook and a few other pages of basic info.

 

How do you access the PP?

[laughing lioness]

Last year we were part of a CC community. This year we continue to use the CC guide and are participating in a classical co-op. All of the families invovled use the Foundations program and are committed to classical but we don't follow the CC class day format.

CC is a memory program. It is systematic and does a great job of training parents how to teach memory work (if they work the program). It's strength is not content and even within some of the categories that are memorized they are not systematic in how they teach. We use it as a loose framework.

In order to get the Power Point and the memory CD's you need to purchase them ($50- this month free shipping). History sentences are set to song, etc. There is a LOT of good info on there.

[mom2abcd]

In order to get the Power Point and the memory CD's you need to purchase them ($50- this month free shipping). .

 

I own these, but can't get the fun stuff to show up on my computer. Can anyone walk me step by step through the process?

[JessMcG]

I am just curious if anyone gets the manual and then uses it as a guide without being a part of one of the weekly classes. If so, how do you like it, and how would you compare it to programs like TOG or MFW?

 

The guide is hard to figure out. We've gone through 12 weeks so far (with a local CCC community) and it took me until about week 10 to really feel comfortable with it. But after you know what you're doing, it's entirely possible to do it without the community.

[St. Theophan Academy]

thanks to all for the input - I went to an info meeting this morning - I like the idea, and got to look at the manual - but don't think the community would work for us. I disagree with memorizing math facts to music (and really, don't like memorizing much of anything to music which they seem to do a lot of!) , and also having a different perspective on history than protestants I can see this might be an issue. I am going to order the 2nd edition manual b/c it is only $25 right now (they are updating next month) and use it for some guidance in our recitation.

[JessMcG]

I disagree with memorizing math facts to music (and really, don't like memorizing much of anything to music which they seem to do a lot of!)

 

Interesting. Why not? :bigear:

[yvonne]

I disagree with memorizing math facts to music (and really, don't like memorizing much of anything to music which they seem to do a lot of!)

 

This is the main reason I didn't pursue it, either. I don't know if memorizing to music is a good idea. It's purely a personal preference for me. I haven't tried to look for objective research on the question, yet. Music makes it easier to memorize, perhaps, but I wonder if it doesn't make it more difficult to retrieve the information from memory?

 

For example, I think of my own experience with the little "30 Days Hath September" rhyme, among others. Yes, I do remember it, but whenever I needed the information, I would have to go through that little rhyme in my head and listen for the month I needed. It would have been a whole lot easier & faster to remember that April, June, September, and November have 30 days.

 

For those who do use music to help with memorization, have you found this to be an issue? Can kids retrieve a particular piece of information easily? Or do they have to go through the whole song to get to the info they want?

 

Thanks for any insights!

yvonne

[mom2abcd]

For those who do use music to help with memorization, have you found this to be an issue? Can kids retrieve a particular piece of information easily? Or do they have to go through the whole song to get to the info they want?

 

Thanks for any insights!

yvonne

 

It depends. The history sentences are short enough that they can easily speak them after they've learned them through the short little musical ditty. And I *know* they wouldn't have remembered these (or wanted to anyway)without the music to help.

 

The math items, though, are not sticking at all. It could be because we never listen to the music since it's horrible. Horrible. I don't know who they got to formulate their things to music, but most of it is not well done.

 

Our family has memorized the books of the Old and New Testaments both with and without music. We have a couple of really catchy songs that I really think help. We can actually find books faster by thinking of the music for "Let us sing the books of History..." than by going through the whole "chant" of books.

 

Generally, I think memorization using music helps build a foundation and then speaking the words cements it all. I know it builds a sense of success in kids. Ds loves for me to make up songs for his Bible verses. He can learn so many more verses using music.

 

I bought a CC cd to use without a group and we all just hated it. But this year, working with a group and taking one week at a time, it's bearable.

 

I also want to point out to any interested in this thread that there's more to CC than the memorization. Each 6-week period highlights a fine arts area that wouldn't happen at home. It's neat to see the interest in the tin whistle move to the recorder... the piano... and last longer than the six assigned weeks. There's the fellowship... the learning to participate in a group setting, responding to tutor other than a parent, public speaking, etc.

 

We really like CC and will continue with it next year.

[yvonne]

It depends. The history sentences are short enough that they can easily speak them after they've learned them through the short little musical ditty. And I *know* they wouldn't have remembered these (or wanted to anyway)without the music to help.

 

Thanks, mom2abcd. That is a good point---memorizing to music is better than not memorizing at all!

 

yvonne

[SonshineLearner]

I'm directing a program, as well as some of the other ladies who have commented about the program.

I would say that if you are going to do it without a CC group, I would put together a group that meets every week at a certain time.

I say this, because it's the only way to really stay committed. My mom has been doing Latin with my children and another lady and her daughter.

The only way it's worked...for the last 2 1/2 years...has been because they commit to each Monday at 4pm.

The time and day has been agreed to before hand each year, and while it's changed a bit here and there, the commitment has not!

I would not purchase it until next year, because there are multiple corrections being made.

If you are going to do it as a group, I'd have one mom do the memory work for the guide, one mom do all the science experiments, one mom do the music. It is alot of work for one mom to do it all! (Hence the reason it's set up as it is.)

Then, I'd decide if we want to do the VP cards in chronological order like CC or geographical order like VP. If you do geographical order, you can use the VP songs. You might want to listen to one to see if you like it. ( I do like the VP history card songs, and have suggested that they make another cd according to chronological order.)

The memory songs( on the CC cd) do the history sentence songs orally first, then by song.

As far as song versus orally, I'd teach orally first, then have fun with the song at class. I like to try to introduce all of the material orally first. I actually read that it's stored in a different part of the brain if it's learned by speaking it, versus singing it. (And there were instructions about what ear to put the headphones on (and clip the other side)

Also, I would use School House Rock for the math, if I was learning it on our own. I like that better.

That being said, I love CC. I love the community that we've built.

My daughter said she finally has "friends". One of the mom's said that her son said that he loves coming to CC instead of school! And, they learn a ton. I love the fact that they learn cooperatively. Our group is great and the learning is so much more than the memory work.

If I was going to learn it at home, I might divide the weeks into whatever kind of history cycle I was doing at home.

[angela in ohio]

thanks to all for the input - I went to an info meeting this morning - I like the idea, and got to look at the manual - but don't think the community would work for us. I disagree with memorizing math facts to music (and really, don't like memorizing much of anything to music which they seem to do a lot of!) , and also having a different perspective on history than protestants I can see this might be an issue. I am going to order the 2nd edition manual b/c it is only $25 right now (they are updating next month) and use it for some guidance in our recitation.

 

We have two Catholic families in our group, and it is working out fine. When we get to the Reformation in the timline cards, they will have to do some explaining at home, but that is the one and only area that would be a problem, as far as we can tell. (Unless you weren't a creationist family, and then that would also be a difference for the first week or so.)

 

In our program (and what CC recommends,) the younger children memorize to music, but by the older group they have moved to just reciting things. The transition is very easy between singing and reciting. I ask my 6 yo to just say the history sentences that he has learned to music, and he can do so easily.

[JessMcG]

The math items, though, are not sticking at all. It could be because we never listen to the music since it's horrible. Horrible. I don't know who they got to formulate their things to music, but most of it is not well done.

 

 

 

 

I do not agree. The recordings are professional and the math facts are set to regular nursery rhyme type tunes with which most people are familiar. DD loves them and I don't mind them one bit.

[JessMcG]

We too love CC for much more than the memorization. I have met some amazing and inspiring Christian women.

 

As far as memorizing to song, I'm hypothesizing that it's a good way to get this stuff into the head. Sure the facts may be in a less efficient part of the brain at first, but once the information learned is used enough (perhaps especially when the dialectic stage is reached), surely those facts will "move" to their proper place. Just think of the "ABC"s.

[Heather in VA]

thanks to all for the input - I went to an info meeting this morning - I like the idea, and got to look at the manual - but don't think the community would work for us. I disagree with memorizing math facts to music (and really, don't like memorizing much of anything to music which they seem to do a lot of!) (.

 

Actually CC discourages memorizing to music as well. They provide the music for only two subjects (history sentences and skip counting) as a tool but prefer if the students use that as a stepping stone to saying the information without music. They have chosen not to link up with VP to use their songs for the cards.

 

If you are against music for memory, you won't find anything in CC to contradict your learning it all without music. Also, if your primary concern is the math facts via song - it's only the skip counting. When the student is 8 years old or older they will learn their multiplication tables which have no songs associated.

 

Heather

[angela in ohio]

I do not agree. The recordings are professional and the math facts are set to regular nursery rhyme type tunes with which most people are familiar. DD loves them and I don't mind them one bit.

 

We really like them, too. I have had many different skip count and math facts CDs, and we like these much better than any others we have heard. THey are very simple, and I like that.