Elementary writing/grammar program

[WahM]

I’m looking for recommendations for a writing/grammar program that is not so teacher intensive. I normally use very teacher intensive curriculums, but during this specific time I need something that is a lot more hands off. I don’t want “fluff” and “busy work” which sometimes I worry that the more hands off curriculums are full of such work. Which is why I’m asking for suggestions to look into. I don’t mind if it’s religious or secular. This would be for 3rd grade since my older is already set with her work. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by WahM

[Ellie]

For more independent work, you could look at Rod and Staff Publishers' English text. R&S doesn't have a website, because Mennonite, but you can call and request a free scope and sequence, a free catalog, and free curriculum samples. (606) 522-4348,

[WahM]

1 hour ago, Ellie said:

For more independent work, you could look at Rod and Staff Publishers' English text. R&S doesn't have a website, because Mennonite, but you can call and request a free scope and sequence, a free catalog, and free curriculum samples. (606) 522-4348,

I tried R&S when my older was in 5th and we needed something after WWE/FFL and before WWS. For some reason neither one of us liked it at the time. Maybe I’ll take a look at it again. 

[Lori D.]

For grade 3, I'd suggest just setting aside Grammar for the year (many people don't even start Grammar until grade 4 or 5), and then just do informal writing as it comes up, or as your child wants to do a project of interest. Or, if needing something for writing ideas and to just keep a little writing going:

- Spectrum Writing (grade 3) -- 42 different project ideas -- more than enough for a project a week
- Evan Moore Daily 6-Trait Writing (grade 3) -- 125 lessons -- enough for 2-4 lessons per week


ETA -- I know you mentioned that you are not looking for busywork/fluff -- but I really think that LA topic of Writing can NOT be realistically done as "mostly hands-off" by the parent -- esp. at the young age of grade 3. Writing requires a lot of 1-on-1 and scaffolding for students up through the middle school grades, and for many, into the early high school years.

Because I just don't see how to do writing as a "solo working" subject (unless it is more just for fun with the goal of keeping a pencil in hand and getting some words on paper so that the student doesn't forget how), that's why I'm suggesting skipping Grammar this year (or maybe do some fun online games to practice parts of speech and punctuation if you can't let go of Grammar entirely)... But that's esp. why I'm suggesting either interest-led non-essential writing projects for fun, or a workbook approach with various ideas.

Note: I do think that some of the ideas in both of those grade 3 workbooks I linked above have some ideas that are really much more appropriate for grade 5 and up, so if you go the route of one or both of those workbooks, I would pick and choose lessons that are a fit for YOUR student, and that you know the child can do mostly solo. 

Just my 2 cents worth. 😉  BEST of luck, whatever you go with! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, Ellie said:

...R&S doesn't have a website...

Milestone Books sells Rod & Staff, and they have sample pages of R&S materials on their website.

[SilverMoon]

For 3rd grade? I'd probably grab an Evan-Moor book too. The Daily Language Review books have five exercises a day that keep grammar concepts in regular enough rotation to keep them from falling out of heads. This is all my 10yo is using for grammar this year (to reserve time for other things that need more attention). If you're coming from FLL I'd recommend going up one grade. DS does ask for help once in awhile, like it expected him to know what an almanac is. Nothing that I couldn't easily explain on the fly though. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by SilverMoon

[SilverMoon]

You might check out Winning With Writing and Growing With Grammar too? I looked them over when I was deciding on grammar for mine this year but I don't have experience with this company. They have some decent samples on jackrispublishing.com. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by SilverMoon

[WahM]

5 hours ago, Lori D. said:

For grade 3, I'd suggest just setting aside Grammar for the year (many people don't even start Grammar until grade 4 or 5), and then just do informal writing as it comes up, or as your child wants to do a project of interest. Or, if needing something for writing ideas and to just keep a little writing going:

- Spectrum Writing (grade 3) -- 42 different project ideas -- more than enough for a project a week
- Evan Moore Daily 6-Trait Writing (grade 3) -- 125 lessons -- enough for 2-4 lessons per week


ETA -- I know you mentioned that you are not looking for busywork/fluff -- but I really think that LA topic of Writing can NOT be realistically done as "mostly hands-off" by the parent -- esp. at the young age of grade 3. Writing requires a lot of 1-on-1 and scaffolding for students up through the middle school grades, and for many, into the early high school years.

Because I just don't see how to do writing as a "solo working" subject (unless it is more just for fun with the goal of keeping a pencil in hand and getting some words on paper so that the student doesn't forget how), that's why I'm suggesting skipping Grammar this year (or maybe do some fun online games to practice parts of speech and punctuation if you can't let go of Grammar entirely)... But that's esp. why I'm suggesting either interest-led non-essential writing projects for fun, or a workbook approach with various ideas.

Note: I do think that some of the ideas in both of those grade 3 workbooks I linked above have some ideas that are really much more appropriate for grade 5 and up, so if you go the route of one or both of those workbooks, I would pick and choose lessons that are a fit for YOUR student, and that you know the child can do mostly solo. 

Just my 2 cents worth. 😉  BEST of luck, whatever you go with! Warmly, Lori D.

I have to disagree with this a little as I have been homeschooling for almost ten years I think it can be done. I'm just not sure what curriculums are out there that fit this specific need as I've always had my go to for the elementary years. I feel it would be completely do able as mostly hands off with guidance from me, of course, just not as teacher intensive.

[WahM]

1 hour ago, SilverMoon said:

For 3rd grade? I'd probably grab an Evan-Moor book too. The Daily Language Review books have five exercises a day that keep grammar concepts in regular enough rotation to keep them from falling out of heads. This is all my 10yo is using for grammar this year (to reserve time for other things that need more attention). If you're coming from FLL I'd recommend going up one grade. DS does ask for help once in awhile, like it expected him to know what an almanac is. Nothing that I couldn't easily explain on the fly though. 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into them.

[Lori D.]

19 minutes ago, WahM said:

I have to disagree with this a little as I have been homeschooling for almost ten years I think it can be done. I'm just not sure what curriculums are out there that fit this specific need as I've always had my go to for the elementary years. I feel it would be completely do able as mostly hands off with guidance from me, of course, just not as teacher intensive.

Yes, it's totally a "YMMV" situation. You know your individual students best. 😄 

My experience is with homeschooling our 2 DSs all the way through gr. 1-12, and now teaching writing & literature to grades 7-12 homeschool students in a co-op class setting. Neither of my DSs could have done writing mostly independently until high school (one hated writing, the other had LDs in writing, spelling and math). And many of my co-op class students struggle to do essays largely independently, as they are coming in with learning delays or have not had a previous writing program that "clicked" for them, or they have not hit the maturation stage of thinking that allows them to construct supported writing. So that's why I suggested what I did, out of my experience.

BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family! Warmly, Lori D.

ETA:
While it is geared for grades 4-6, if your student has previously been doing the WWE series, you might check out the mostly independent-working Wordsmith Apprentice for writing. A "cub reporter" theme, with writing in all 4 areas (descriptive, narrative, expository, persuasive) by writing for different "departments" of a newspaper. Exercises, short assignments, and culminates in a few complete paragraph assignments.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Lori D.

[8filltheheart]

My experience mirrors Lori's in that my kids and my grandkids need a lot of teaching/guidance for writing well.  My 3rd grade grandson's attempts at writing this yr without direct teaching and guidance mirror " x did this then verb then verb then verb and (no telling what will be written......run-ons, incomplete sentences, no punctuation.)

[Terabith]

I don't know of a non teacher intensive way to teach writing in third grade, but for grammar, Easy Grammar/ Daily Grams is pretty good for a year and mostly hands off once they memorize the prepositions.  I mean, small amounts of instruction once in awhile would be necessary, but never very much.  And it's really pretty decent, especially for a year here and there.  

[WahM]

2 hours ago, OKBud said:

 

Oh yeah you can go a lot of directions and have a great third grade year! 

There are plenty of worktext programs that the student does work through on their own, just showing off their work to you or asking for clarification here and there. My kids used Cottage Press Primers. We've also used CLE LA, but it's more than most people need most years IMO. I personally have a great love for Learning Language Arts Through Literature and used five levels of it over two kids. Writing Tales is a great program and has more writing than the others. 

There are also non-worktext programs that are just less teacher-intensive...SCM's spelling+Using Language Well, PLL and ILL (and you can buy worksheets from someone online), English For Thoughtful Children, ELTL, TGATB...

There's video-based instruction, such as with Essentials in English. Or something more text-y like BJU. Even FLL only takes 10-20 minutes a day.

There are more of course. Truly in third grade you're basically just building good habits for the future. So the MAIN thing is to find your sweet spot where you aren't overwhelming the kid, nor making things so stunningly easy that come 4th grade, he or she won't balk at adding a little bit to their expectations. So whatever gets you there is what you want. It's really good that you are going into it avoiding busy work, because once you eliminate that at that age LA can take very, very little time in your day LOL.

As I am sure you know, a lot of third graders really and truly can not do much in the way of writing and won't get grammar at all, even if you hammer it home all day. ...it's TOTALLY legit if you just do copywork and cursive or spelling practice and call it a day! Especially if you have an otherwise full school time. For example, there's some grammar in the Cottage Press Primers, but my one son didn't get any of it at all. It was basically this all-in-one-place for copywork, fable and poetry reading, and drawings. I needed a thing though, because I was out of commission. It didn't matter to me that he didn't get the grammar parts because I was already basically in tune with CM's admonitions not to overwhelm young children with something so abstract as grammar rules. 

So, just whatever you think you need this year. 

 

Thanks for the suggestions! I’m leaning towards Abeka, CLE, or LLATL. They seem comprehensive, but less teacher intensive than I’m used to which is just what I’m looking for. 

[WahM]

56 minutes ago, OKBud said:

 

I've not used Abeka (there is a thread going here about it rn), but as I said, I like both CLE and LLATL. These two are very different from one another. CLE is a lot more grammar in third grade. LLATL is based on Ruth Beechik's methods. It all "works." LLATL gets a bad rap... because it's based on Ruth Beechik's methods (lol) which don't look like much on any given day, but add up over time. 

Given my druthers, if I could only pick one, I'd pick LLATL every time. In your specific case, it will fulfill those gentle requirements for third grade without going overboard in any direction...and you can either move on next year OR keep going with it and both are good, fine options. CLE, otoh, I would encourage you not to do year after year. People do, certainly, and they like it. But it just doesn't strike any kind of balance, yanno?

Thank you so much for your input it’s very helpful. I do like that LLATL seems to follow the classical model more so than the other two. 

[SilverMoon]

I agree that teaching writing well requires teacher intensiveness in the long run and that third graders need a lot of oversight (alllll the oversight..lol), though I was under the impression the OP was looking for something more independent for a season.  I've totally scaled subjects down just for a season based on family needs at the time. 🤷‍♀️

(My youngest didn't even formally do writing for third grade. He just wasn't ready; the example above wouldn't have happened. Now his grammar is scaled back for 4th so we can focus on the writing.)

[WahM]

3 hours ago, OKBud said:

Hmm I don't think that's quite right. If there is a classical model for LA that correlates with curriculum, it would probably be the progymnasmata. And LLATL definitely isn't that. 

English Lessons Through Literature and Cottage Press both start out with Charlotte Mason methods (as far as you can in their respective formats) and then turn to the progym. Writing Tales is closer to Classical Academic Press's Writing and Rhetoric, which aims toward the progym, than anything else. But LLATL is truly just based on Beechick and while there's certainly overlap with Classical outlooks in intent, I don't think there's a case for much similarity in execution, if that makes sense.

I agree, definitely not classical, but as you said there is some overlap that I do like in her methods that I do like and agree with.

[WahM]

I really didn’t think asking for something less teacher intensive would be so controversial! Haha wow! 
I was honestly thinking I’d get lots of great ideas of curriculums to look into that are not so teacher intensive. I do know that there will oversight and teaching involved he is only in third grade, but I do also know there’s lots of more independent programs out there that are great and comprehensive and would fit during this time in our homeschool journey. Sorry if this struck a nerve with some, but if you don’t have any program suggestions I’m not sure why you’d stop and comment? 
Anyway, thanks for those who did help. I think I figured something out for the rest of the school year. 

[Lori D.]

4 minutes ago, WahM said:

I really didn’t think asking for something less teacher intensive would be so controversial! Haha wow! 
I was honestly thinking I’d get lots of great ideas of curriculums to look into that are not so teacher intensive. I do know that there will oversight and teaching involved he is only in third grade, but I do also know there’s lots of more independent programs out there that are great and comprehensive and would fit during this time in our homeschool journey. Sorry if this struck a nerve with some, but if you don’t have any program suggestions I’m not sure why you’d stop and comment? 
Anyway, thanks for those who did help. I think I figured something out for the rest of the school year. 

It must be a moment of written posts being misunderstood on both sides. 😉 
Your post didn't seem controversial to me, and I didn't have any intentions of my post being controversial in response. 😄 
I did provide a few solo-working ideas (and explanation of why I suggested those), but then I felt I had offended you from your response to my program suggestions for you... haha!

So I will take it that we are all good. 😉 Sorry what I suggested wasn't a fit, and I do wish you the best in finding what works best for your family. Warmly, Lori D.

 

[WahM]

45 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

It must be a moment of written posts being misunderstood on both sides. 😉 
Your post didn't seem controversial to me, and I didn't have any intentions of my post being controversial in response. 😄 
I did provide a few solo-working ideas (and explanation of why I suggested those), but then I felt I had offended you from your response to my program suggestions for you... haha!

So I will take it that we are all good. 😉 Sorry what I suggested wasn't a fit, and I do wish you the best in finding what works best for your family. Warmly, Lori D.

 

Very true! I agree just a misunderstanding because I’ve been part of these board for quite a while and everyone is always so helpful! I think the pandemic has everyone just not thinking straight! 🤣 or me for that matter! I’ve just been through two surgeries in 6 months and still in recovery from the most recent, so it was probably, most definitely, me that misunderstood or I’m just not using the correct terms. 

[Lori D.]

4 minutes ago, WahM said:

Very true! I agree just a misunderstanding because I’ve been part of these board for quite a while and everyone is always so helpful! I think the pandemic has everyone just not thinking straight! 🤣 or me for that matter! I’ve just been through two surgeries in 6 months and still in recovery from the most recent, so it was probably, most definitely, me that misunderstood or I’m just not using the correct terms. 

Oh dear, so sorry about the surgeries! Esp. during the pandemic. 😵 Hope you quickly recover! Warmest regards, Lori D.