People who refuse to vote because it’s mail-in ballot

[gardenmom5]

6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I ask my lawyer friends 🙂

 

yeah - we did.  Our friend who is a barrister (vs. a solicitor).  They're English terms that don't get used much in the US.   A barrister is a lawyer who argues "at the bar".  in court.  He has  personal experience with the different judges, and the other barristers with whom he practiced and had acquaintance had first hand experience with the judges.  they talk.

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by gardenmom5

[chiguirre]

8 hours ago, Quill said:

Well, the person I was talking about who was mad about mail-in noted that the envelope has voter affiliation printed directly ON it. I do think that’s dumb and don’t know why it is necessary. This person was saying, “maybe the postal worker looks at that and says, ‘oh, look! A vote by a ————-! Guess I’ll just put this through the shredder...” I do think they have a point; however, considering all the important stuff that goes through our post office, I can’t see what’s so sacrosanct about a voting ballot.

PS. The person I’m talking about did ultimately vote after I nagged them. 

I think it's because this is a primary election and you live in a state where only voters registered in a party can vote in that primary.

[LucyStoner]

Hi, my name is Katie and I have never not voted by mail.  I have voted for 22 years and never had to do so in a polling place.  

Back in 1998, when I registered to vote, I registered too late to be able to vote at a polling place.  So they set me up with an absentee ballot so I would not miss the election.  And I never, ever changed it.  Because voting at home on my own time is freaking fantastic.  Then the state closed almost all in-person voting and basically the entire state has been doing it this way for like, a decade.  We are all ok.  

Do people not realize that paper is actually one of the most secure ways to vote?  Because it can be recounted and audited?  Do people trust for-profit private voting machine companies MORE than they trust themselves?  

Do people like standing in line for a long time?  Are people really attached to the stickers?  Is it the sweet old ladies and the free cookies?  I like cookies and stickers but I really like being able to vote at home, by myself and return my ballot without any fuss.  If we send old ladies with cookies and stickers around on ice cream trucks collecting the ballots, would that address the concerns?  

Mail-in voting works. 

ETA:  I'm aware that long lines aren't a thing everywhere, but when I hear of people lined up all day to vote, I just think there has to be a better way to ensure that everyone has ballot access.  

Edited June 3, 2020 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

8 hours ago, Frances said:

Oregon is a leader in vote by mail. Our last Secretary of State, a very conservative Republican who unfortunately died while in office, often vouched for the security of vote by mail. Signatures are verified by workers (my husband and I have each had to submit new signature cards once before our ballot was counted because our envelope signature didn’t match those on file) and then machine read. We have drop boxes or you can mail them postage free.

 Over the years, my signature has changed.  I got a letter in the mail asking me to confirm my signature and update it.  Once, my ballot was challenged for some reason or another (close recall) and they contacted me and my vote was counted.  I trust it as much as in person voting on paper and more than in person electronic voting that lacks a voter verified audit trail.  I can log into a website and confirm if my vote has been counted.  

[LucyStoner]

13 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

This is the kind of concerns I'm seeing.   

I think that's a good idea - options.  I like the idea some mentioned about a specific box at town halls or other local government facilities where ballots can be dropped off.   

There are giant ballot return boxes here outside of town halls, libraries and community centers.  The ballots can now also be returned without postage.  If someone needs an accessible ballot, there are places to go and vote and unlike in the days of only poll based voting, people needing an accessible ballot can get one and vote anytime over a one to two week period.  Much more flexible.  

[LucyStoner]

19 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah it’s a fraud vector, and ballot harvesting is an issue.  But I don’t know of anyone actually refusing to vote, they’re just not happy about it as a default with no in person option.  I think almost everyone is fine with absentee mail in ballots being available, it’s not having any in person polling places that rubs wrong.

There is zero evidence that it engenders fraud.  It's been in place successfully in the states for decades now.  We have had some statewide races come down to a handful of votes (like, literally the governor's race in the not too distant past was decided on a recount by 129 votes out of 2.5+ million votes cast) and mail in voting has broad based, bipartisan support in my state.  I also feel strongly that the Secretary of State here (who is not of my political party) is vastly better informed on election security than the pundits claiming it doesn't or can't work.  

It also strikes me that if one wants to change the outcome of an election, there are waaaay easier ways than either stealing, changing or buying people's mail in ballots ONE BY ONE.  

Edited June 3, 2020 by LucyStoner

[Mabelen]

15 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Ballot harvesting isn’t even a legal term, and many states allow ballot collection with different parameters. The Heritage Foundation found only 107 illegal cases the past few decades, the biggest being the 2018 Republican fraud in Carolina. Voter suppression causes much, much more damage than any proven cases of voter fraud. Fact.

We know why certain people don’t want vote by mail. We all know. We just can’t say it here.

I had an online conversation where several people were claiming voter fraud because some US born who had acquired Canadian citizenship had received ballots. They claimed you lost US citizenship when you acquired a second one, therefore they could not vote. Even when I cited the relevant State Department quotes, they still didn’t want to believe that you actually couldn’t just lose your citizenship and that you actually had to formally renounce it.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Hi, my name is Katie and I have never not voted by mail.  I have voted for 22 years and never had to do so in a polling place.  

Back in 1998, when I registered to vote, I registered too late to be able to vote at a polling place.  So they set me up with an absentee ballot so I would not miss the election.  And I never, ever changed it.  Because voting at home on my own time is freaking fantastic.  Then the state closed almost all in-person voting and basically the entire state has been doing it this way for like, a decade.  We are all ok.  

Do people not realize that paper is actually one of the most secure ways to vote?  Because it can be recounted and audited?  Do people trust for-profit private voting machine companies MORE than they trust themselves?  

Do people like standing in line for a long time?  Are people really attached to the stickers?  Is it the sweet old ladies and the free cookies?  I like cookies and stickers but I really like being able to vote at home, by myself and return my ballot without any fuss.  If we send old ladies with cookies and stickers around on ice cream trucks collecting the ballots, would that address the concerns?  

Mail-in voting works. 

ETA:  I'm aware that long lines aren't a thing everywhere, but when I hear of people lined up all day to vote, I just think there has to be a better way to ensure that everyone has ballot access.  

Wait - where are there cookies for voting!!! I never once got a cookie! (I do like my sticker, however. I think they should include a sticker when they mail you your ballot! I swear that would get rid of a large number of objections)

And yes, the lines are seriously a problem. When I voted in 2008 in a predominantly black area, the line was hours long. This past election cycle there were people who waited 4 hours or more in some parts of the country I believe. Given that the poor are often least able to do this, due to child care issues, work, etc...yeah. It's disenfranchisement. I've even had to wait for a long time for early voting in the past, so that didn't fix it. 

My ONLY concern is how to get ballots to people without a stable address. We have SO many people who are insecure regarding housing...sleeping on couches, moving from relative to relative, sleeping in cars, etc not to mention those at actual homeless shelters, sleeping on the streets, etc...I'd want to know that they have a way to vote without an actual address to send a ballot to. 

1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

 

It also strikes me that if one wants to change the outcome of an election, there are waaaay easier ways than either stealing, changing or buying people's mail in ballots ONE BY ONE.  

Yup. My father worked for decades for one of the companies that makes electronic voting machines. My husband works in cybersecurity. Both think the security in place on those machines is a joke. 

Mail in ballots are MUCH safer.