Younger sibling passing older?

[Condessa]

I know the regular answers: use different curricula so it’s harder to compare, focus on each one’s strengths, talk about each working on own personal bests and not on what others are doing.  But my ds7 is just so darn good at so many things, and dd9 thinks she is not very smart and not good at things.  She is sandwiched between ds7 and dd11 who are both fast thinking, very talented, competitive, loud-talking extroverts who love to run the show.  Dd9 is is a quiet 2e kid who compares herself to others.  She is dyslexic.  We have worked long and hard and she now reads well at or a little above her grade level and reads for pleasure, which is a huge victory.  But she does compare herself to ds7, who read well before she did and reads more advanced books than she does.  Also, her spelling is much worse than his, and she notices.  She is also super distractible, quite possibly diagnosable as ADHD, and much slower to get her schoolwork done.  

She has played suzuki violin for over four years, and he has played the cello for two, and is a book ahead of her.   She’s decided to quit violin after the music festival next month.  I have had them doing MCT and Treasured Conversations together the last couple of years because I just didn’t have enough minutes in the day, and it has seemed to go well, but it’s another area where little brother is at her level.  They were at the same level in swimming lessons this last session.  He passed and she didn’t.  They both love Beast Academy.  He flies through it, and often chooses to do extra for fun.  I make him do the end-of-chapter tests and stop and do some Singapore IP or CWP between each chapter, and he’s now about three chapters behind her.  I feel guilty for intentionally slowing him down.  One of the things I disliked about public school and saw as a big plus in homeschooling is that each kid can learn at their own pace without having to wait around for the class, but now I have been trying to keep him from progressing at his own pace.  I might have started them in different curricula in math from the beginning, but I didn’t foresee this.  He has just covered two years of BA in under a year and a half.  

She has her own foreign language and extracurricular—horseback riding has been great in that it is basically self-confidence training with animals.  The thing is, she is a really smart kid, but she just doesn’t see it.  She is a sweet, sensitive, intelligent child with beautiful handwriting, an amazing green thumb (seriously, this kid can grow anything), and a wonderful creative flair, but she doesn’t place as high a value on her strengths as on the more easily quantifiable things she sees from her siblings.

[Donna]

My youngest is over four years younger than her next brother and she was passing him very early on. He was also very smart but about things not looked at scholastically. His strengths lie in working with his hands and music. I definitely used different curriculum, had them chose their own extracurriculars, and praised them for things that had nothing to do with performance (how hard they worked, a kindness they performed, etc...).

One thing I thought while reading your post was maybe allowing your dd9 to pick an instrument to learn that does not have a set curriculum/order like guitar. I love the Suzuki method and it worked beautifully for my dd17 but the one thing I did not like was the obvious order and hierarchy it created. It seemed everywhere we went for violin activities, people's first question (parents and other students) was "what piece are you on?" My middle ds learned guitar (not Suzuki method) and there was no order so he could learn at his own pace with no pressure to compete or perform.

 

[Cake and Pi]

It is really hard to know what to do in these situations where what's best for each individual child seems to be in direct conflict with what's best for one or more of the others. We have a similar situation, with DS 8 outperforming DS 10 and DS 12 despite them all having very similar abilities. No matter how much I discourage comparison and reinforce a growth mindset, we still deal with a great deal of jealousy and resentment. 

I've made some compromises. I've let DS 8 fly ahead in his area of special interest, math, but I've deliberately held him back in spelling by only focusing on it as a school subject for half of the year while siblings work on it all year. I let him take the PSAT this fall but not through a talent search, so he didn't get any of the recognition or awards he would have been eligible for with his scores. In some subjects I've tried using different curricula or online class providers with different kids to reduce direct comparison, but where a particular curriculum really is best suited for multiple kids, I haven't tried to bump one to a less ideal curriculum to prevent them from knowing who is in the higher level. It all feels like a balancing act.

My DS 12 struggles the most with jealousy and resentment. No amount of discussing individual strengths/weaknesses, growth mindset, or the bell curve has helped in the slightest. Him working 4 years ahead in a subject means nothing to him if his little brother is 8 years ahead. What *has* helped is simply spending more one-on-one time with him doing things he enjoys. For example, I've carved out a chunk of time just before bed just for reading aloud books that his brothers are "too young" to read with us. We have some deep conversations and enjoy cuddling. He's slowly getting more comfortable in his skin, though it's an ongoing process.

This won't be an easy journey to navigate, but you'll figure out something that works.

[JenneinCA]

Oh boy, am I living this one.  My kids are older than yours, but the problem is not going to go away.  I would decide what you are going to do if the younger one really does pass the older one and there is no way to hide it.  And then do that.

Are you going to deliberately hold the younger one back?  Then talk to the younger one and explain the situation to them.  Tell them that you can’t let them do the next thing because of your reasons.  And then breathe and do it.

Are you going to let the younger one proceed ahead of the older one?  Then talk to the older one and explain the situation to them.  Tell them that you aren’t going to slow down the younger one because of your reasons.  And then breathe and do it.

This is not a hypothetical for us.  I tried to slow my middle child down and just keep him at the same rate as my oldest.  It didn’t work very well and it wasn’t like she didn’t know what was happening.  She struggled.  He thought it was easy.  When they were 16 and 14 I couldn’t maintain the fiction anymore.  I sat down with my oldest and told her that I couldn’t hold him back any more and that I was going to let him learn as fast as he wanted to go.  I told her that he was crazy smart and she was good, but not like he was.  Surprisingly to me, none of this was news to her.  She had wanted to pretend that she was ahead of him in everything, but really she knew better.  She was upset and angry and frustrated.  But she was going to be all those things if I said the words or not.  And I didn’t want to demand that he had to hold to her level forever. 

This May my middle child will graduate with a four year computer science degree.  He already has a job.  A GOOD job.  My oldest has a year abroad and then her senior year to go.  She doesn’t have a summer job yet.  

The really challenging part is my youngest.  He is forever comparing himself to either of his older siblings. There was no way for me to avoid the damage to him and his self image for doing everything later than they did.  He does have his own things but still if I could find a way for him to be out of his siblings shadows and be somewhere where they had never gone, I would do that in a heart beat.

[Condessa]

12 hours ago, Donna said:

One thing I thought while reading your post was maybe allowing your dd9 to pick an instrument to learn that does not have a set curriculum/order like guitar. I love the Suzuki method and it worked beautifully for my dd17 but the one thing I did not like was the obvious order and hierarchy it created. It seemed everywhere we went for violin activities, people's first question (parents and other students) was "what piece are you on?" My middle ds learned guitar (not Suzuki method) and there was no order so he could learn at his own pace with no pressure to compete or perform.

 

Dd9 is considering taking up either clarinet or voice lessons.  I have been searching high and low for a voice teacher willing to take a nine-year-old, because that is where her deepest musical interest lies, and she also has a beautiful voice.  I haven't found any local teachers who are willing, but my sister who is a great singer may teach her by computer.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Michelle Conde

[Condessa]

11 hours ago, Cake and Pi said:

It is really hard to know what to do in these situations where what's best for each individual child seems to be in direct conflict with what's best for one or more of the others. We have a similar situation, with DS 8 outperforming DS 10 and DS 12 despite them all having very similar abilities. No matter how much I discourage comparison and reinforce a growth mindset, we still deal with a great deal of jealousy and resentment. 

I've made some compromises. I've let DS 8 fly ahead in his area of special interest, math, but I've deliberately held him back in spelling by only focusing on it as a school subject for half of the year while siblings work on it all year. I let him take the PSAT this fall but not through a talent search, so he didn't get any of the recognition or awards he would have been eligible for with his scores. In some subjects I've tried using different curricula or online class providers with different kids to reduce direct comparison, but where a particular curriculum really is best suited for multiple kids, I haven't tried to bump one to a less ideal curriculum to prevent them from knowing who is in the higher level. It all feels like a balancing act.

My DS 12 struggles the most with jealousy and resentment. No amount of discussing individual strengths/weaknesses, growth mindset, or the bell curve has helped in the slightest. Him working 4 years ahead in a subject means nothing to him if his little brother is 8 years ahead. What *has* helped is simply spending more one-on-one time with him doing things he enjoys. For example, I've carved out a chunk of time just before bed just for reading aloud books that his brothers are "too young" to read with us. We have some deep conversations and enjoy cuddling. He's slowly getting more comfortable in his skin, though it's an ongoing process.

This won't be an easy journey to navigate, but you'll figure out something that works.

 

I just don't know what to do.  I feel guilty if I hold him back, and guilty if I don't.  Both options feel wrong.  

I need a door number three.

[Condessa]

7 hours ago, JenneinCA said:

The really challenging part is my youngest.  He is forever comparing himself to either of his older siblings. There was no way for me to avoid the damage to him and his self image for doing everything later than they did.  He does have his own things but still if I could find a way for him to be out of his siblings shadows and be somewhere where they had never gone, I would do that in a heart beat.

 

Good luck with this.  So much of this tendency to compare seems to be so much a part of individual kids' innate personalities.  My youngest, ds5, is in many ways very like dd9.  He has not been quick to read and may also be mildly dyslexic, though he's ahead in math and is my most lopsided kid.  But either way he never seems to notice or compare to when his older siblings learned things (at least not yet).  He generally always assumes that whatever he does is quite good for his age.  May it long stay that way.

[JenneinCA]

10 hours ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I just don't know what to do.  I feel guilty if I hold him back, and guilty if I don't.  Both options feel wrong.  

I need a door number three.

I agree.  There is no right answer.  I wished for that magical door number 3 too.  

I did a thought experiment and asked myself what the perfect solution looked like if I could have anything I wanted.  My perfect solution was that everyone was happy and successful.  That my middle child was thriving and learning and excited about everything.  And my oldest was thriving and excited about everything.  And even that my youngest was thriving and excited about everything.  And most of all none of them were comparing themselves to each other.

 I asked myself if there was any way to get to this magical perfect solution and in the short term the answer was no.  But maybe in the longer term there was.  And so I attempted to look farther ahead and prioritize the relationships between the kids.  I helped them find things they could do together and enjoy together.  We played a lot of board games and role playing games and I made lots of cookies.  I watched baseball games that bored everyone but me and let them complain together about their crazy mother.  Basically I gave them every chance I could to be on the same team.  Homeschooling was amazing for that.  Time is everything.  They have common experiences and that is the best thing ever.  
 

[katilac]

Like you said, you know the answers . . . it's just hard! Remember that it's a marathon and you're going to be doing these things for the next decade. A few random thoughts below. 

If she's possibly ADHD, why not get her evaluated? There are non-medical interventions if that's your concern, and outside (objective) advice will often take you much further than DIY. Also, I have seen numerous people post over the years about how their child felt tremendous relief upon getting an official dx of some kind. Another huge reason for evaluations is that it may look like possible ADHD to you, but could in fact be something else that requires different interventions. Or ADHD plus something else. Guessing just wastes time.  

I don't believe in deliberately slowing students down solely for the sake of siblings, but that's not what you're doing with math imo. Having him do IP and CWP sounds like a suitable response to his capabilities, an appropriate challenge, and a good use of time. If it's not, or if he absolutely hates it, then you need to reconsider and try something else. Learning different approaches and mingling topics is great in math, and imo better than just zooming through set curricula. fwiw, making a student do extra, unnecessary practice sets or complete a non-challenging curriculum just to suck up time are what I would consider a negative slowing down. 

Don't feel bad about not putting them in different math books from the beginning. They're homeschooled, so there's a good chance they would like what their sibling is using and want to switch anyway. 

Her own foreign language, EC, and hobby -excellent. 

My #1 thought is to quit messing around with 'maybe' she's ADHD and get an evaluation. Knowledge is power. My second thought is to just keep on keepin' on. You're doing and saying lots of great things, it's just a marathon. And, like someone else said, often personality-dependent.  

 

[prairiewindmomma]

My first bit of advice is to deal with the ADD.  My oldest had his self esteem tanked because we left his untreated for so long. He could feel his brain hiccuping and he internalized a feeling of not being able to do what he should've been able to do.

Re: the rest..... I have two 2Es, a 1E, and a very average child in the mix at my house. One of the better things we did was send one of my 2Es to public school to give him his own mental space aside from sibling comparisons.  He began to believe that he was quite bright once he saw his first report card of all As and saw his public school peers.  It was a decision we made entirely for non-educational reasons.  He needed outside validation of his abilities. It went against every bit of personal preference and philosophy on educating and parenting a child, but it was what he needed..... So, I'd look to what your daughter really needs.

What do you guys do together as a family?  Honestly, game night and a 4screen split on Minecraft have done a lot here towards creating a family bond and healing over some of the tension that happens.