Is taking a break from math ok?

[fishermom]

I have been homeschooling for about 30 years.  My youngest son is now in 7th grade.  He is good at math, but hates it.  I have cut back his math to the bare bones--we use Saxon--I just have him do the new concept and a handful of other problems.  My rationale is that he is currently with an excellent classical guitar instructor, and I feel that spending time on that is more important right now.  Still, he wears me down with his complaining about doing any math at all. I am wondering if I should increase his math, have him do it first, so he just gets used to it-- like my other kids did.  Or, would it be possible that a break from math altogether would help?? I am skeptical about that, because my kids are not great unschoolers. Their default is flopping around lazily and wanting screens, not being motivated to do anything particularly useful.

[vonfirmath]

I would not recommend a break from math at that age.

I ran out of math at our school after acing AP Calculus BC in 11th grade and my parents could not afford to send me to classes off campus (what other kids in this situation did) So it was the next year, college, before I had any math at all. And I didn't back up in College at all but just took the next class -- it was a HUGE mistake.  I don't know for sure that you'd have the same problem in 7th.  I remember 6th and 7th grade math being a lot of review before we FINALLY got to learn something new in 8th. So maybe it wouldn't matter as much.

 

But, having taken a year off, how easy will it be to get him to buckle down and do it next year? Sometimes when I give in to my kids (particularly for screens on a school night) they don't appreciate the special thing I did once but realize it is now an option and beg for it even more, afterward.

[fishermom]

Yes, I tend to agree with you. Thank you for your advice.

[Guest]

Maybe do a math project? We saw this speaker at a math/science conference a few weeks ago, and I plan to do the project with  BK2 after Christmas.  https://digitalcommons.imsa.edu/pfs_pr/21/

 

[Jackie]

We’ve taken substantial breaks from math curriculum along the way, but often have some alternative math going. Perhaps one of the Zaccaro books? Or Art Benjamin’s Secrets of Mental Math?

or maybe a change in curriculum? I loved math growing up, until I switched to a school that used Saxon. My skills took a nosedive, and I ended up rather disliking math, but with the memory of it being a favorite subject before those Saxon books. If he’s at all like that, there may be a better fit for him.

[EKS]

Have you thought about switching programs?  Saxon is notorious for making kids hate math, and only doing a handful of problems means that he is not even reaping the benefits of Saxon's strength--developing automaticity through tons of practice.  If most of the work isn't automatic, Saxon is going to be a slog.  

[Susan in TX]

I would not take a break from math but in your situation I would find a different curriculum. For a change of pace you might want to try The Life of Fred math books. He also might do better with something online like Teaching Textbooks or Kahn Academy.

 

Susan in TX

 

[fishermom]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I will be looking into them.

 

[Gil]

On 12/9/2019 at 10:33 AM, fishermom said:

I have been homeschooling for about 30 years.  My youngest son is now in 7th grade.  He is good at math, but hates it.  I have cut back his math to the bare bones--we use Saxon--I just have him do the new concept and a handful of other problems.  My rationale is that he is currently with an excellent classical guitar instructor, and I feel that spending time on that is more important right now.  Still, he wears me down with his complaining about doing any math at all. I am wondering if I should increase his math, have him do it first, so he just gets used to it-- like my other kids did.  Or, would it be possible that a break from math altogether would help?? I am skeptical about that, because my kids are not great unschoolers. Their default is flopping around lazily and wanting screens, not being motivated to do anything particularly useful.

Don't teach your kids from a place of fear and don't make yourself and your kids a slave to a tradition that isn't in-line with your reality.
Your gut is to reprioritize the school day for a (limited amount of ) time for this student, and I would explore options to follow your gut.

I would first speak with his other parent and make sure that WE, the parents, are okay with it. If both parents are in accord, then I would sit with him and work out a WRITTEN agreement, that he can have 30, 45, 60 up to 90 days off from math; that instead of doing math, he will redouble his efforts on the guitar and take full advantage of the opportunity he has for growth in this field while he has an excellent teacher. Make it clear that this respite is our gift to him, to enable him to progess on guitar and maybe even other 'worthy endeavors' as much as possible for a short period of time.

If he doesn't apply himself to guitar or other "worthy endeavours" sufficiently, then he is to resume a daily math lesson immediately. This is not a break from school lessons, this is a special session of school with different priorities.

When he returns to math, ditch Saxon. I don't think that using Saxon incorrectly, is worth the time and energy. (Note: We used Saxons upper grades books as a part of our program and I would do it again, but we used it as prescribed: every problem from every lesson, worked in order. I have "particular" math tastes. I think that Saxon is a great program, but it's a specific, and highly particular program. If you're not going to do "the program" then I'm not sure that it's worth doing.

Rather than continuing on misusing Saxon, get a copy of virtually any text titled Basic College Mathematics and when he's done, go straight into an algebra text. You can also get virtually any text titled Basic College Mathematics: Early Integers and it will give him more exposure to and practice with integers. Most BCM books that I've seen have 12 or fewer chapters. They cover all the essential topics from a 5th-8th scope and sequence with minimal fuss and tend to introduce integers in the last chapter. An Early Integers text will introduce Integers in the first 2 or 3 chapters, and keep using them throughout.

Pedagogically, you can take a break from math at this stage in the game and be no worse for the wear within 6 months of resuming math. My only hesitation in taking an extended break from math would be IF he is the sort who would not honor/cooperate with the return to math, or if he has some sort of severe math-disability or learning difference that would make an extended break from math cripple him.

In those cases, I might do different, but I have very strong feelings about math, math education, and children's ability to learn. I've tutored 100+ kids and I feel confident that if this is a NT kid, with average, or even slightly below average math-aptitude, that he'll be fine to pass up some months of math practice in exchange for some other worth-while endeavors.

Yes, he'll miss out on some of the repetitious, spread of practice, but it won't cripple him. Kids take summer break, get ill, miss chunks of school due to deaths in the family, etc and still manage to learn and understand enough math to do well in school.

He can still become an engineer, doctor, or lawyer if he decides that's what he wants to do, and if he doesn't become an engineer, doctor, lawyer or business whiz, it won't be because he didn't finish every lesson in his 7th grade math text, I assure you that much.

He is old enough that he may be able to be trusted to participate in such a conversation and understand the ramifications of his decision, but while he has access to an excellent teacher, I would want him practicing as much as possible, so that he can progress as much as possible while this teacher is available. Why not take advantage of one of the benefits of homeschooling to give your child a better education?

I will admit right now, that my kids are not naturally self-motivated. They do NOT come up with loads of educational, super beneficial learning projects on their own (at least not many that they're able to see through to the end independently). My youngests idea of a well rounded education includes copious amounts of Nintendo and drawing. They do best with externally provided structure and it's easier on everyone if I just take the reigns and be in charge. I'm very comfortable being The Adult in my relationship with my kids, though I've wavered in the past and I understand that the nagging uncertainty can be a real !@#$%.

I would work with my spouse and child to take better advantage of the special opportunity that having this excellent guitar teacher presented. I wouldn't go looking for a gimmicky "fun math", I wouldn't butcher Saxon, I would present him the opportunity to prioritize something special for a maximum of 3 months. It'll feel harder to take that time off when he's in highschool and you have to keep transcripts and whatnot. I think that for NT kids, the middle grades are ideal for "gap years" from disliked or uninspired subjects.

 

[fishermom]

Thank you for your well-thought out response.  It is a different point of view and I appreciate it.  I will ponder what you have said.

[fishermom]

I agree.  I have used Saxon 95% of the time with my kids (and one went on to a successful career in the field) but I have known plenty of other homeschoolers who also succeeded with other programs. I think it depends on the person.  And that is a wonderful thing about homeschooling--we have choices!

 

[Ellie]

On 12/9/2019 at 7:33 AM, fishermom said:

I have been homeschooling for about 30 years.  My youngest son is now in 7th grade.  He is good at math, but hates it.  I have cut back his math to the bare bones--we use Saxon--I just have him do the new concept and a handful of other problems.  My rationale is that he is currently with an excellent classical guitar instructor, and I feel that spending time on that is more important right now.  Still, he wears me down with his complaining about doing any math at all. I am wondering if I should increase his math, have him do it first, so he just gets used to it-- like my other kids did.  Or, would it be possible that a break from math altogether would help?? I am skeptical about that, because my kids are not great unschoolers. Their default is flopping around lazily and wanting screens, not being motivated to do anything particularly useful.

Oh, not with Saxon. If you want to move more slowly and in a more relaxed way, then have him work about 30 minutes at a time, doing **all of the problems**, every single one; and at the end of 30 minutes, put the book away. The next day, he picks up where he left off. Every problem in every problem set is important. When you allow him to skip problems, he's missing not just the constant review but also the development of every concept.

[fishermom]

Thanks for the input. I appreciate all the different comments.

[lewelma]

14 hours ago, Gil said:

Don't teach your kids from a place of fear and don't make yourself and your kids a slave to a tradition that isn't in-line with your reality.
Your gut is to reprioritize the school day for a (limited amount of ) time for this student, and I would explore options to follow your gut.

Gil! Where have you been?!?!? Your entire post is a fascinating look into the mind of an expert teacher and parent. Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that out. Absolutely fascinating.

Ruth in NZ

[Gil]

11 hours ago, square_25 said:

@Gil: I don't think fun math has to be gimmicky. Math can be both enjoyable and rigorous at the same time. Not everyone thrives with Saxon. 

Ok....and? I mean, I'm sure it's great that you don't think that fun math has to be gimmicky, and that math can be both enjoyable and rigorous at the same time. But what of it? What's that got to do with me?

Did I typo and say that anyone could thrive with Saxon? I could've sworn I advised the OP to ditch Saxon in this case.  I thought sure that I advised she stop misusing Saxon by butchering it up, and just find something else.... 😕

[Gil]

8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

You said not to look for a fun math. That seems rather defeatist from my perspective. I agree with you that she should ditch Saxon, since her kid hates it and they aren't using it as indicated anyway. 

Ok, you are entitled to misread my posts anyway you like, but please refrain from letting me know just for the sake of letting me know, as it distracts from the OPs actual line of discussion.

[Farrar]

Another vote to do some fun math.

This is 7th grade. You really have only a couple of years before those math credits count. And sure, you might be able to condense math for a year or two or work something else out or your son might end up taking a music route that doesn't require a traditional math sequence... but for a 7th grader, that's not a gamble I'd want to make. So you've got this year and next to do math that will give him a better experience of the subject. Ideally, you'd want him ready to take Algebra I by high school... but I'd say working on that attitude would be the first goal for this subject.

Seconding lots of the above suggestions about what's out there for math projects and alternative resources. I'll add that the Murderous Maths books are another great one for middle school. You could also just play a ton of math intensive games. And there's more... I think you just have to think outside the box.

[Gil]

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

Gil! Where have you been?!?!? Your entire post is a fascinating look into the mind of an expert teacher and parent. Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that out. Absolutely fascinating.

Ruth in NZ

Hi @lewelma. You give me too much credit, lol. I don't know, now that you called me fascinating--and twice in the same post--I feel a little under the microscope.

Good to be back. 🙂

Edited December 12, 2019 by Gil
homophones.