Which Omnibus 1/Ancients books are not to miss?

[ByGrace3]

I am looking into the potential of auditing the self paced Omnibus for my rising 7th and 9th graders. I would want to cull the list a good bit. Which books should we not miss? (I didn't list all of the books of the Bible for Primary as we don't want to skip them -- but it is a lot of reading, so I want to keep that in mind as we are choosing other works). I am also not as concerned about the secondary books as  most of those are Narnia, which my kids love and won't mind reading again. I also will probably have them read over the summer to get ahead a bit. 

Primary books:

Theban Trilogy -

Sophocles I

The Last Days of Socrates

Epic of Gilgamesh

The Early History of Rome

Code of Hammurabi

Aeneid

The Twelve Caesars

Odyssey

Julius Caesar,

Reclaiming Our Culture for Christ … One Young Heart and Mind at a Time!

Oresteia –

Aschylus I

Plutarch’s Lives

Secondary Books:

Chosen by God The Silver Chair Till We Have Faces The Last Battle The Magician’s Nephew The Best Things in Life The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe The Unaborted Socrates The Horse & His Boy Bible: Galatians Prince Caspian: The Return to Narnia Bible: Romans The Voyage of the Dawn Treader Bible: James Bible: Isaiah The Eagle of the Ninth Bible: Jeremiah The Screwtape Letters Bible: Minor Prophets The Holiness of God

Edited March 7, 2019 by ByGrace3

[Aloha2U]

Well, not Omnibus, but... from our experience with OWC: The Greeks and The Romans, I've compiled a list of Ancient books not to miss (that we've read thus far) that correspond with the following VP Primary lists. Not all of the books are fun per se, but all are informative and worth the read. (*We have yet to read this year). 

(The Greeks)
1st Semester Omnibus I:
The Odyssey
Aeschylus II (Oresteia Trilogy)
Sophocles I
The Landmark Herodotus
The Last Days of Socrates by Plato
*Plutarch's Lives 

1st Semester Omnibus IV:
The Iliad by Homer
Aristophanes
Euripides
Landmark Thucydides
Aristotle

(The Romans)
2nd Semester Omnibus I:
The Aeneid
The Early History of Rome by Livy
*The Twelve Caesars
*Julius Caesar

2nd Semester Omnibus IV:
Ovid's Metamorphoses
*Cicero
*Annals of Imperial Rome
*The Early Christian Fathers

It was interesting to compare the book lists and get an idea of how each schedules and tackles them. There are various preferred translators/editors between the two providers, and there are quite a few different historical book selections suggested by OWC that are not listed here, and vice versa a couple by VP.

As for the Secondary books, he just reads (or has read) at his leisure the ones in which he's interested, and I add it to his book lists in our comprehensive records.

[Meriwether]

Would you have time to read through them yourself this summer? I am going to try to read just about all of the books from Omnibus I and IV plus any others listed in WTM this summer, so that I can choose which ones to have my kids read next year. It is embarrassing to admit it, but my own education was pretty lacking. 

[ByGrace3]

31 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

Would you have time to read through them yourself this summer? I am going to try to read just about all of the books from Omnibus I and IV plus any others listed in WTM this summer, so that I can choose which ones to have my kids read next year. It is embarrassing to admit it, but my own education was pretty lacking. 

 

Mine was quite lacking as well, although I went to a "good" Christian private school . . . we lacked in the great books area for sure . . .or even in the whole books area. I am looking forward to reading alongside them. I definitely will plan to read some this summer, but I won't have time to read all of them, and I would like to read the ones we at least plan to read together. 

[TheSchoolintheHills]

15 hours ago, Mom21 said:

Well, not Omnibus, but... from our experience with OWC: The Greeks and The Romans

I would love to hear about your experience with OWC.  Will you continue?  My ds is entering 9th grade next year and, after following and enjoying AO, I am strongly considering changing over to OWC for high school.  I love the Great Books and feel it is just the best foundation for whatever he may choose to do in life, and OWC seems to be a great choice.  Would you agree?

[Lori D.]

Not Omnibus, but we did our own Ancient Lit/Ancient History, which I listed below and marked in purple the works we did that are also covered in Omnibus. The favorite works of DSs that year:

#1 = Till We Have Faces (very meaty discussions from this one)
#2 = Greek myths
#3 & 4 (tie) = the Iliad (not on your list) and the Odyssey
#5 = Oedipus the King (first of Sophocles' Theban plays)

If we'd had the time, I think they would also have liked Orestia, and also some of the plays by Aristophanes.

I don't have a background in classic lit, either, and I have very ordinary DSs, neither of whom was "into" academics. So we geared our studies to what was interesting and manageable, did a little bit of "stretching" out of our comfort zone (but not so much as to kill interest), and still got a lot out of it. All that to say -- I think you are very wise to trim the list to what is not just manageable for your family, but to the amount of work that allows you to dig in and explore without being overwhelmed. 🙂

JMO: I think Omnibus is rather soul-crushing (lol) for most average middle schoolers (even for many strong reading 7th graders), so I'm not sure how much of the works beyond the textbook I'd have a 7th grader read -- maybe pick ONE work per quarter? And include non-ancient high quality YA books for balance and for practicing discussion?

To reduce the load for your 9th grader, perhaps just read a few short excerpts from the primary source History titles? Spread out some of the Bible books and the Bible / devotional / Christian worldview books of Omnibus to your family devotional time and over the summer, or put them on a list for a future year of family devotional/Bible study time? I'd carve out time for your DD to be able to enjoy those SL-type of books that she likes, esp. some NON-ancient historical fiction works for balance/relief -- again, perhaps some good, discussion-able YA works?

Just a thought. BEST of luck in deciding how to reduce the Omnibus list! Warmest regards, Lori D.

_____________________

ENGLISH credit
Because fiction (novels, short stories, poetry, plays) is read / discussed / analyzed so differently from nonfiction, I include any histories, biographies, primary source writings as part of the History credit, rather than as the Lit. part of the English credit. We focused on the more "story-like" works to keep interest high, and really enjoyed all of the works we did (see list below). I regret that we had to skip the middle play (Oedipus at Colonus) of the Theban cycle by Sophocles due to time crunch. Just no way we could have squeezed in more works beyond this, and still have any meaningful thought/discussion. Also we did 2 abridged/retellings, as we were getting a little tired of all those "pesky Greeks" by the end of the year.

Also, we did Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings that year as a separate Literature Elective credit, and that was a very welcome relief from all the ancients and it kept us from burning out on "all Lit all about the same thing all year." If I were to able to have a "do over", I would make sure the book basket selections were not all historical fiction to match the times, but would have filled it with quality YA fiction. 

Our Ancient Lit. list:
- Tales from Ancient Egypt (Green) -- selections
- Gilgamesh and Other Babylonian Tales (Jennifer Westwood) --abridged retelling
- Greek myths -- about 8 (?) of short story length; various authors/editions
- Iliad (Homer) -- Fagles translation
- Odyssey (Homer) -- Fagles translation
- Oedipus the King (Sophocles) -- Fitzgerald translation
- Antigone (Sophocles) -- Fitzgerald translation
- Aeneid (Alfred Church) -- abridged retelling
- Till We Have Faces (CS Lewis)

As solo-reading support for the time period, DSs read a few historical fiction works, picked from a book basket, about 1 every 6 weeks for a total of 5-6 books. (Note: these would be both enjoyable but also good beginning analysis with a 7th grader.) Book basket selections included choices such as:

- Hittite Warrior (Williamson) -- Hittite/Egypt
- Shadow Hawk (Norton) -- late Egypt
- Ides of April (Ray) -- Rome/Israel
- Bronze Bow (Speare) -- Rome/Israel
- Eagle of the Ninth (Sutcliff) -- Rome/Britain
_____________

HISTORY credit
We used a textbook that included some very short primary source experts + a number of other resources (nonfiction books/excerpts, documentaries, and a few feature films set in the time). No overlap with Omnibus.
_____________

BIBLE  credit
Throughout middle and high school we read books of the Bible, plus numerous devotionals, "Christian living" books, and worldview and apologetics works, one of which was Screwtape Letters from your Omnibus list.

___________________

Primary books:

History
The Early History of Rome
Code of Hammurabi
The Twelve Caesars
Plutarch’s Lives

Literature
Theban Trilogy (Sophocles)
Gilgamesh
Aeneid
Odyssey
Julius Caesar
Oresteia (Aeschylus)

Bible/Theology/Philosophy
The Last Days of Socrates
Reclaiming Our Culture for Christ … One Young Heart and Mind at a Time!
_______________

Secondary Books:

Bible/Theology/Philosophy
Chosen by God
The Best Things in Life
The Unaborted Socrates
Bible: Galatians, Romans, James, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Minor Prophets
The Screwtape Letters
The Holiness of God

Literature
7 books of Chronicles of Narnia
Till We Have Faces
The Eagle of the Ninth

Edited March 8, 2019 by Lori D.

[Aloha2U]

5 hours ago, TheSchoolintheHills said:

I would love to hear about your experience with OWC.  Will you continue?  My ds is entering 9th grade next year and, after following and enjoying AO, I am strongly considering changing over to OWC for high school.  I love the Great Books and feel it is just the best foundation for whatever he may choose to do in life, and OWC seems to be a great choice.  Would you agree?  : ) Yes!

We had started out with Omnibus I, but quickly put an end to it. After researching for an alternative, OWC won! We began with The Greeks and are finishing The Romans this year; we will be working through Christendom through 2019-2020, with Early Moderns following in 2020-2021. 

For us, OWC is the perfect balance of reading The Great Books from a Christian worldview (without a denominational slant), lectures, discussions, and student output by way of comprehension questions (to test understanding of the reading assignments and lectures) and term/final papers. Each unit has a completely workable nine-week schedule provided. The reading is not too overwhelming or soul-crushing (as mentioned by the pp with regards to Omnibus). Presently, we enjoy most of the daily reading together, aloud—approximately 40-ish pages. 

[ByGrace3]

5 hours ago, Mom21 said:

We had started out with Omnibus I, but quickly put an end to it. After researching for an alternative, OWC won! We began with The Greeks and are finishing The Romans this year; we will be working through Christendom through 2019-2020, with Early Moderns following in 2020-2021. 

For us, OWC is the perfect balance of reading The Great Books from a Christian worldview (without a denominational slant), lectures, discussions, and student output by way of comprehension questions (to test understanding of the reading assignments and lectures) and term/final papers. Each unit has a completely workable nine-week schedule provided. The reading is not too overwhelming or soul-crushing (as mentioned by the pp with regards to Omnibus). Presently, we enjoy most of the daily reading together, aloud—approximately 40-ish pages. 

 

Would you mind expanding on why you moved away from Omnibus, was it more than denominational slant and amount of reading? (those two are certainly reason enough . . . but we are ok with the slant and plan to pare down the reading). I have not ruled out OWC, but I know that ds would not be able to do it, so I would have to separate them completely, and I like the idea of doing Ancient Greece and Rome in one year.

[ByGrace3]

10 hours ago, Lori D. said:

 

JMO: I think Omnibus is rather soul-crushing (lol) for most average middle schoolers (even for many strong reading 7th graders), so I'm not sure how much of the works beyond the textbook I'd have a 7th grader read -- maybe pick ONE work per quarter? And include non-ancient high quality YA books for balance and for practicing discussion?

To reduce the load for your 9th grader, perhaps just read a few short excerpts from the primary source History titles? Spread out some of the Bible books and the Bible / devotional / Christian worldview books of Omnibus to your family devotional time and over the summer, or put them on a list for a future year of family devotional/Bible study time? I'd carve out time for your DD to be able to enjoy those SL-type of books that she likes, esp. some NON-ancient historical fiction works for balance/relief -- again, perhaps some good, discussion-able YA works?

 

ok this brings up a few interesting thoughts. If I cull the reading list for my 9th grader to a manageable level, but have her read the Omnibus text for all of it, have her watch all of the videos . .  . would that be "soul crushing?" I certainly don't want that! 😂 I am certainly up for approaching this with a good dose of flexibility to see what works and adjust as we need to, I just want a working plan to start with. 

So potentially for 9th grader:

Option 1: Audit Omnibus 1, cull the book list, but read all of the Omnibus text (with excerpts from what we don't read in their entirety) and watch all the videos OR

Option 2: Audit Omnibus 1, Cull the book list and only read the text and watch the videos for what we read

For 7th grader:

Option 1: Audit Omnibus 1, select just a few works, read the Omnibus text and watch videos

Option 2: Audit Omnibus 1, select a few works and only read the text and watch videos for what he reads

Option 3: Audit Omnibus 1, select a few works and only read the text and watch videos for what he reads, have him supplement with the Pages of History book instead of reading the majority of the Omnibus text. Perhaps even supplement some of the readings for the children's versions. (would this be possible? for example Read The Children's version of The Odyssey and then watch the Omnibus video for that work?)

I do love the Omnibus text, the thought provoking questions and discussion starters . . . I guess the big question at this point is -- can I purchase the self paced and make it work for us so we enjoy the videos to enhance our study without being a slave to the set curriculum? Would it be so disjointed we will have wished we hadn't done it? 

So much to consider!

[Lori D.]

Start off with a shortened reading list (or put ** by books that you can drop throughout the year if you're feeling crunched), and try doing both text and videos, and see how it goes. Adjust as needed to fit *your* 9th grader and *your* 7th grader. You've got more than enough to work with, so whatever you do will be great. And esp. interesting to you all after your summer trip. Enjoy! (:D

[Aloha2U]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:45 PM, ByGrace3 said:

 

Would you mind expanding on why you moved away from Omnibus, was it more than denominational slant and amount of reading? (those two are certainly reason enough . . . but we are ok with the slant and plan to pare down the reading). I have not ruled out OWC, but I know that ds would not be able to do it, so I would have to separate them completely, and I like the idea of doing Ancient Greece and Rome in one year.

The idea of all that Omnibus had to offer was the draw, but the execution of Omnibus 1 was the deterrent. It came down to the content of the Omnibus 1 text that disappointed and repelled us right out of the gate (e.g., clearly interjected opinion and hypothetical interpretation rather than valid arguments backed by solid scripture references in the books of the Bible commentaries). Our thoughts being, if we couldn't trust those portions of the text, then how could we trust anything else—answers to provided comprehension questions, other historical commentaries, etc.? That being said, we gave it multiple chances before we jumped ship, which was somewhere around First and Second Samuel or Kings (after Genesis, Exodus, Epic of Gilgamesh, and Code of Hammurabi). Unfortunately, we found our doubts to be proven true again and again. It was not a decision made lightly. I was not one that was going to jump on the bandwagon of other naysayers who were obviously against D. Wilson. I wanted our decision to be based on our own experience. I wish I could give you more specifics, but short of going back through the text, I don't recall exactly where the discrepancies are located, as quite some time has passed since last we read Omnibus 1. On a side note, my young man also remembers a level of dryness and redundancy in the text and follow-up sessions that drove him batty. 

[jer2911mom]

What is OWC? Thanks!

[ScoutTN]

OWC = Old Western Culture taught by Wes Callihan and published by Roman Roads Media. 

[jer2911mom]

Thank you!