What IS living math?

[Earthmerlin]

OK, this question may be too simple but I'm scouting out ways to rekindle my 8 yr old's love of math this sumner (after a harsh 3rd grade in a public school). Is 'living math' simply a way to introduce/discuss/study math through books? If so, we already do that (yippee!). If that's not quite the full pciture, please elaborate. If books are the main focus in living math, how do you extend that learning in daily life (w/o it becoming too workbooky or pencile & paper driven)? Where  does the 'living' aspect come in? Thanks!

[....]

We did Living Math for several years.  This was after the math disaster that was me pushing my oldest two through curriculum every day and all three of us hating it.

For us, Living Math was checking math readers, fun math books, etc from the library and then working through problems together.  Stuff like The Perilous Book of Math...where you have to calculate how long it takes in seconds for multiple people to make trips back and forth across a rope bridge before zombies eat you...  Lol.  Murderous Maths, Life of Fred, some Zaccaro math books, etc.  We read tons of stuff like that.  We also worked through some higher level geometry books where you designed houses and read blueprints, etc, using geometry and arithmetic along the way.

We didn't learn math by a scope and sequence, either.  I just kinda followed rabbit trails and decided when it was time to teach the next thing.  Also, we did a Math Journal.  This was a good place for me just to write problems on paper and then my daughter would run off and solve them.

That is probably how I'm going to teach math to ds3 when he gets old enough for formal schoolwork.  

Kids #3 and 4 did a ton of Living Math and they both really enjoy math now and are pretty good at it, too.  My 10 year-old just started Saxon 6 after years of math readers, some Beast Academy, learning with Cuisinaire rods, etc, and she's doing well with it so far.  

[HomeAgain]

I consider living math to be applied math.  Like, it's not just learning for the sake of doing a worksheet, but to be able to do something with it and play or manipulate.  Whether that's through stories like Sir Cumference or more detailed like Perilous Math (love that book here!), or Fred, or TOPS, or...I would even put games and such like from Right Start in this category.

[Farrar]

I like the way Evanthe described it. It's not just books, though that can be a nice part of it.

We always did living math alongside a curriculum, but I think, especially for the early years and especially if you're trying to heal a kid coming out of a bad math experience for a little while, living math can be your main curriculum. I think eventually you need a program at some level, but it's not urgent, especially not in elementary school. The end goal of liking math, feeling comfortable with math, etc. should always take some level of precedence.

If you haven't seen the book lists at livingmath.net, they really are great. They're by far the most comprehensive ones. Be sure to raid your library and remember that even the math story picture books are often in the nonfiction section. In the early 500's, I think.

 

[EKS]

I would assume that living math is math used in "real life."  The problem with exclusively taking this approach is that the math kids generally can do in early/middle elementary doesn't really get you very far in real life.  Even the more advanced arithmetic, such as fractions and percents, only applies to a few situations in a kid's naturally occurring existence, and the skills involved aren't that complicated (doubling a recipe, figuring out how much an item is discounted, figuring sales tax, etc).  Geometry crops up in some everyday applications, but not often in kids' lives.  Beginning algebra is similar.

What's interesting about math isn't its elementary applications to everyday life.  Much of what's interesting is internal to the math itself.  The rest of what's interesting is how it can be used to model things in the world, but these applications and the math used to model them go well beyond what third graders (well, most third graders) are capable of.  And it isn't using a model that someone else developed that is neat, it is developing the model yourself--which most people will never do.

Given all that, in your situation I'd think about what your child loved about math before the bad public school year.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was probably that he or she felt competent in solving the problems and could probably do them in his/her head and then suddenly the work got harder (more digits, carrying, borrowing, etc), the work had to be written out, and/or the problems the teacher gave were difficult to understand.  Moving forward, some of that isn't going to go away.  The arithmetic will only get harder, for example, and at some point things need to be written down (but not as much as public schools frequently require).  But you can work to ensure that your child is working in his/her zone of proximal development (is challenged but not challenged too much) and that the problems are stated clearly.  I think that will be more likely to rekindle interest than trying to do some sort of living math--which, frankly, at the level we're talking about, is pretty dull.

ETA: If by "living math" you mean children's books that incorporate math, there are some, but I don't think they are that exciting and they don't get at the heart at what makes math interesting, which is solving problems oneself.  There is also Life of Fred, which is a textbook series that has a storyline attached, and Beast Academy, which is written in the form of a comic book.  

[Earthmerlin]

3 hours ago, EKS said:

I would assume that living math is math used in "real life."  The problem with exclusively taking this approach is that the math kids generally can do in early/middle elementary doesn't really get you very far in real life.  Even the more advanced arithmetic, such as fractions and percents, only apply to a few situations in a kid's naturally occurring existence, and the skills involved aren't that complicated (doubling a recipe, figuring out how much an item is discounted, figuring sales tax, etc).  Geometry crops up in some everyday applications, but not often in kids' lives.  Beginning algebra is similar.

What's interesting about math isn't its elementary applications to everyday life.  Much of what's interesting is internal to the math itself.  The rest of what's interesting is how it can be used to model things in the world, but these applications and the math used to model them go well beyond what third graders (well, most third graders) are capable of.  And it isn't using a model that someone else developed that is neat, it is developing the model yourself--which most people will never do.

Given all that, in your situation I'd think about what your child loved about math before the bad public school year.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was probably that he or she felt competent in solving the problems and could probably do them in his/her head and then suddenly the work got harder (more digits, carrying, borrowing, etc), the work had to be written out, and/or the problems the teacher gave were difficult to understand.  Moving forward, some of that isn't going to go away.  The arithmetic will only get harder, for example, and at some point things need to be written down (but not as much as public schools frequently require).  But you can work to ensure that your child is working in his/her zone of proximal development (is challenged but not challenged too much) and that the problems are stated clearly.  I think that will be more likely to rekindle interest than trying to do some sort of living math--which, frankly, at the level we're talking about, is pretty dull.

ETA: If by "living math" you mean children's books that incorporate math, there are some, but I don't think they are that exciting and they don't get at the heart at what makes math interesting, which is solving problems oneself.  There is also Life of Fred, which is a textbook series that has a storyline attached, and Beast Academy, which is written in the form of a comic book.  

I'll give thought to what you wrote. I think she's developed a distaste for 'school' math because she was timed daily on her multiplication/division facts. I've posted about this before and it's that anxiety that clouds things. She's more than capable of grade level math, which is not only evident in her grades & teacher reports but also in her at-home behaviors (during games, number talks, etc.). What's oftentimes askew is her self-assessment as a mathematician. So I am forever trying to expand her math experiences. I will give serious thought to all responses.

[EKS]

14 minutes ago, Earthmerlin said:

I'll give thought to what you wrote. I think she's developed a distaste for 'school' math because she was timed daily on her multiplication/division facts. I've posted about this before and it's that anxiety that clouds things. She's more than capable of grade level math, which is not only evident in her grades & teacher reports but also in her at-home behaviors (during games, number talks, etc.). What's oftentimes askew is her self-assessment as a mathematician. So I am forever trying to expand her math experiences. I will give serious thought to all responses.

That's easier then--how about instead of doing timed rote fact practice, doing mental math with bigger numbers?  So, 24 x 3 or 359 x 5 or whatever.  There is actually a logical approach to doing this so that the student doesn't get overwhelmed (two digit by one digit with no "carrying" then two digit by one digit with "carrying" then three digit by one digit etc) and a technique that makes things easier (that doesn't involve "carrying").  

Anyway, my son loved this approach to fact practice.  Well, maybe "loved" is too strong a word, but he certainly tolerated it.  It made him feel good about himself and was more interesting than rote practice (and more akin to how facts are used in the real world--the only place with math fact drills are elementary school classrooms; where math facts are used is in the course of solving bigger problems).

[Targhee]

For me it’s simply math with either context or creativity.  For example, looking for visual representation of multiplication (eg 2x4 studs on a lego brick, 2x6 compartments in an egg container) is math with context. So is converting measurements in cooking or building. So is deciding how much to save in an interest-baring account to reach a goal in a specific time frame. So is seeing Fibonacci numbers in a pine cone’s scale. Math with creativity might be making tesselating art, translating the digits of pi into music (love Vi Hart), playing with symmetry using mirrors, but especially problem solving (not plug and chug problems but make-you-think-more-than-compute).

[Earthmerlin]

For those of you with experience with 'Perilous Math', is it accessible to 8 year olds? I like the looks of it on Amazon but it states the target age as middle school.

[Earthmerlin]

Thanks for the tips. What's 'sunshine mah'? And what's 'a pod'? I need clarification with those terms. 

[Targhee]

Can I also suggest The Number Devil? It's great for the 8-10 range.  It is more lit than math but it is fun and covers some topics in that age range (like primes, Fibonacci numbers, exponents and roots, etc).

[Earthmerlin]

On April 26, 2018 at 6:35 PM, Targhee said:

Can I also suggest The Number Devil? It's great for the 8-10 range.  It is more lit than math but it is fun and covers some topics in that age range (like primes, Fibonacci numbers, exponents and roots, etc).

Yes! We have that book! I tried it a couple years ago as a read aloud but she wasn't interested. I'll pull it out again this summer.  Same goes for Murderous Maths (didn't like the 'blood & guts' pictures). We shall try again soon!

[Earthmerlin]

On April 26, 2018 at 10:10 PM, HeighHo said:

Sunshine math is an enrichment program designed by the state of Florida.  http://eastonmath.pbworks.com/w/page/31191599/Sunshine Math

pod is problem of the day...pick a more puzzling problem from sunshine math, and declare it the pod...let everyone come together and offer their solutions at the end of a day or a few days...learn from each other that there is more than one way, and that persevering works out.

Thanks for the explanation. This looks great! I have it queued to print today. We do math talks periodically but I like the idea of doing them more frequently & regularly over the summer (or even sooner). 

[Earthmerlin]

On April 26, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Targhee said:

For me it’s simply math with either context or creativity.  For example, looking for visual representation of multiplication (eg 2x4 studs on a lego brick, 2x6 compartments in an egg container) is math with context. So is converting measurements in cooking or building. So is deciding how much to save in an interest-baring account to reach a goal in a specific time frame. So is seeing Fibonacci numbers in a pine cone’s scale. Math with creativity might be making tesselating art, translating the digits of pi into music (love Vi Hart), playing with symmetry using mirrors, but especially problem solving (not plug and chug problems but make-you-think-more-than-compute).

Yes, exactly! I try to seize teachable moments when math pops up in real life (i.e., estimating tax or % off, measuring or 1/2ing, etc. during cooking & baking, analyzing music notation). I really like the idea of blending creativity & math as I have quite an artsy child. I bought a book on blending ghe 2 and look on Pinterest for additional ideas since art is definitely not my forte. Thanks for the reminder!

PS I plan to search out that V Hart you mentioned--looks interesting!

[Earthmerlin]

On April 28, 2018 at 6:19 AM, HeighHo said:

Are you near a science museum?  Its worthwhile to visit one regularly, they have displays that you would never guess would catch interest and stimulate imagination in the math realm. The ASTC Travel Passport Program is worth checking out...usually you can get a membership to a local museum and that gives you reciprocity at a large one. 

Yes, that's a great idea! 

[....]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:25 PM, Earthmerlin said:

For those of you with experience with 'Perilous Math', is it accessible to 8 year olds? I like the looks of it on Amazon but it states the target age as middle school.

 

8 might be a little too young.  It seemed like they were about 11-12 when we worked through that book.  

Do you have a good library?  I would go to the library and look through the math section.  There were always several shelves full of math readers, living math books, etc.  Books on "how to understand long division" and stuff like that.  We checked out a book on multiplication once that was really good.  Even I learned some stuff from that book that I continue to teach when we're learning math facts. 

Oh, kinda expensive...but Hands-on Equations.  My kids all loved that, too.  It's algebra for really young kids using game pieces.

[mumto2]

We had a great time with the Number Devil.  Dd made her own illustrated book showing how to solve each chapter.  Her bunnies were hilarious!

Books are great and we did them all except Perilous Journey and BA which weren’t written yet.  My kids loved Life of Fred....but puzzles also are a wonderful way to supplement math skills.  Tangrams were fun.  I bought cheap nice shapes but they can also be cut out of colored paper and a book from the library.  We did tons of jigsaw puzzles which I picked up at garage sales.  Then there are Thinkfun games which are wonderful and have the added advantage of being individual games,  River Crossing was a favorite but we owned all that were available when my kids were younger.